https://www.twintroopers.com/podcast/2017/11/5/episode-18-darth-vader-and-driven-by-hatred

Last night drove me crazy. Played against new Vador and Zillo and was not happy with the results. Wasted 3-4 attacks only to do 3 total damage. While the 2 black die can be swingy, the re-roll and zillo make it really good. My experience so far haha.

14 minutes ago, wannabepudge said:

Last night drove me crazy. Played against new Vador and Zillo and was not happy with the results. wasted 3-4 attacks only to do 3 total damage. While the 2 black die can be swingy, the re-roll and zillo make the really good. My experience so far haha.

I played against new Vader this past weekend. I had brought a Stun/Spy oriented list I was testing out. My opponent had Zillow and Unshakeable (yeah there goes the stun option). The best way I found to do damage on vader even with Zillow, was to throw Chewie at him, positioned right, you can do two slams on Vader and then an attack. I ended up also ramming Vader with Chopper for some more free damage (it was pretty funny). Got some shots in as well with some Elite Sabetours (who did manage to get stun off on vader, but he removed it with Unshakeable). Took me three rounds, and liberal use of command cards, to keep vader from killing things with his end of round attacks.

So the way around Zillow backed vader... actions that cause free damage with out an actual attack.

18 hours ago, kingargyle said:

I ended up also ramming Vader with Chopper for some more free damage (it was pretty funny).

I picture Chopper ramming Vader, followed by Vader hoping on one foot holding his knee to chest haha.

19 hours ago, kingargyle said:

I played against new Vader this past weekend. I had brought a Stun/Spy oriented list I was testing out. My opponent had Zillow and Unshakeable (yeah there goes the stun option). The best way I found to do damage on vader even with Zillow, was to throw Chewie at him, positioned right, you can do two slams on Vader and then an attack. I ended up also ramming Vader with Chopper for some more free damage (it was pretty funny). Got some shots in as well with some Elite Sabetours (who did manage to get stun off on vader, but he removed it with Unshakeable). Took me three rounds, and liberal use of command cards, to keep vader from killing things with his end of round attacks.

So the way around Zillow backed vader... actions that cause free damage with out an actual attack.

I was @kingargyle's opponent. The only mistake he made versus my Vader was he had Chewie Focused when he moved and double-Slammed Vader. I think Focused Chewie probably would have had better odds of having 4+ damage get through Vader's defense (even w/ Zillo) with the Focused attack instead of max of 3 with the second Slam. Honestly, I'd have to run the numbers to be sure, but Chewie's SURGE for +2 DMG should tilt it in his favor, even if Chewie doesn't have an attack reroll. (His Focused Chewie could have also Stunned my Vader, but I think at the stage of the game we were in, kingargyle may not have had an available eSab to re-Stun Vader after I used Unshakable.)

But I agree that the best way to set up Vader for a quicker death is with unblockable damage. And playing kingargyle was really tough!

After running a Driven by Hat Red Vader list this weekend, here's my thoughts:

The Vader Starter Set (tm)

• Vader + HATE HATE HATE (13)
• Zillo Technique (1)
• Rule By Fear (1)
• Regular Imperial Officer (2)
• Unshakable (1) OR a Droid deployment with Trusted Ally (1)
• Total: 18 - Oh, this seems like a familiar deployment cost for Vader....

With Vader, Rogue Solo, Newbacca, JK Luke & IG-88 all being viable anchor figures in lists, I expect Harmful conditions to start taking a little more precedence in lists. Unshakable or Trusted Ally gives you at least a chance to remove one Harmful condition before your anchor figure activates.

The rImpOfficer is there to give Vader 2 movement points on the start of the first round. Your strategy might not necessitate Vader needing to move 6 or 10 spaces before Vader does his end of the first round stuff. However, I think that by moving Vader early 1st round, it gets your opponent thinking about where Vader can show up at the end of the round.

I don't think you HAVE TO HAVE 2 rImpOfficers for just Vader. I've found on Nal Hutta Swamp, the one rImpOfficer can give Vader 2 movement spaces during the second round when my opponent's running eAllianceRangers or eWeequays and they are all camping out close to their deployment zone.

Using Rule by Fear to have an extra card for Zillo -- either to help Vader or one of your non-Vader figures -- is crucial for your Vader list.

Nearly Every Vader List Strategy - HEY IT'S VADER, Y'ALL!

I agree w/ @dietz057 & his buddy that Vader is going to take some serious skill to use effectively. The key will be making your opponent have to deal with Vader in the way that he or she doesn't WANT to deal with Vader:

• Controlling & contesting an objective in a spot where Vader can get up-close-and-personal
• Rushing ranged units your opponent is tucking away at the edges of the map just after your opponent commits to moving some of his forces up to run objectives or pick a fight.
• Having Vader flank your opponent and engage when your opponent is clearly positioning themselves to ignore him.
• Holding Vader behind cover, so your opponent's Focused Rangers/Weequays have to move into trickier positions to shoot him... and giving your other figures time to attack them.

Vader is a powerful-enough figure that your opponent HAS to do something when you choose to commit him.

Vader Trait Synergies

Because I think Vader is that powerful of a figure, my theory is that you don't have to assemble the rest of your list around Vader's traits. Having Brawlers (like eRiotTroopers, rRoyalGuard, eWARPIGS or other Merc Brawlers) would be nice for ensuring your Brawler command cards can be used in case Vader gets focus-fired down to a nub by round 3. Like the guys said in the podcast, Imperial Force User lists will be fun but limited in competitive play. But if you run Vehicles, Troopers, Droids and have no special command cards for Vader, I think he's still viable.

Additionally, I think Vader's Leader trait is easy to synergize... since you'll likely be running at least one if not two other Leaders in every Imperial list. The times you'd ever use a Leader command card that requires a Special Action would be few and far between, but the Cost 0 Leader cards are all handy with Vader.

Vader's Defense Rolls

Later this week, I'll spend some time computing the probabilities of possible defensive results from Vader's dual-black rerolls. (Unless somebody beats me to the punch.) It'll be interesting to see what the odds are for rolling double EVADE snake eyes (or 1 EVADE/1 BLOCK) after the Foresight reroll.

Command Cards

I think the Twin Trooper guys missed talking about a few command cards that are very good for Vader. Also going to throw in my thoughts on some of the cards they did mention.

• Brawler
  • Parting Blow - This card gives you the ability to run Vader up next to somebody and just sit there. Your opponent should be weighing whether or not it is worth risking having Vader get a free RRY attack to move their figure away from Vader BEFORE shooting him. You'll have weigh attacking a Smuggler with Parting Blow - maybe you want On The Lam to get used if your opponent has it, maybe you don't want to risk Stunning Vader and forcing yourself to use Unshakable.
    Parting Blow is a nightmare for eAllianceRangers.
  • Grisly Contest - Vader's Assassinate Card. Suffering 2 STRAIN is a pretty hefty price to pay very late in the game when your command deck is low and Vader is near defeat. But applying an unblockable 2 DMG to an adjacent foe might let you Force Choke them off the board, or set them to be more likely defeated by your attack roll.
• Force User
  • Like the guys said in the podcast - you shouldn't be picking Force User cards unless most of your list are Force Users. If you do, make sure you snag all the cards that grant additional movement or push figures. And you *may* want to pick up the skirmish attachment Channel the Force as well, so you can pick up zero-cost Force User cards early and other cards later in the game when you know what you need.
  • Deflection - Not a terrible pickup if you're running Imperial Force Users. If the attack is at long/limited range, you can play it; if an attack is closer and more likely to produce DMG, you spend the card using Zillo.
• Any
  • Pummel - To get this card to work appropriately for Vader, you'll have to commit either 4 points of rImpOfficers or 5 points of eImpOfficer to your list. I'm always afraid that setting Vader up for a Pummel also sets Vader up for Everybody Shoots Vader. But I can see the benefits of having these cards in a list with other melee attackers (Force Users, Brawlers).
  • Prepared For Battle - This might be my favorite card from the Heart of the Empire wave, and it works PERFECTLY with Vader.
  • Fleet Footed, Urgency - Necessary for any melee figure list.
  • To the Limit - Not a horrendous choice if there are other figures on your list that use Special Actions (Terro, Sentry Droids, etc.) Gives you the ability to move -> Force Choke -> Attack.
  • Officer's Training - Good on its own, almost mandatory if you include Terro/Blaise/Palpatine.

2 hours ago, cnemmick said:

I was @kingargyle's opponent. The only mistake he made versus my Vader was he had Chewie Focused when he moved and double-Slammed Vader. I think Focused Chewie probably would have had better odds of having 4+ damage get through Vader's defense (even w/ Zillo) with the Focused attack instead of max of 3 with the second Slam. Honestly, I'd have to run the numbers to be sure, but Chewie's SURGE for +2 DMG should tilt it in his favor, even if Chewie doesn't have an attack reroll. (His Focused Chewie could have also Stunned my Vader, but I think at the stage of the game we were in, kingargyle may not have had an available eSab to re-Stun Vader after I used Unshakable.)

But I agree that the best way to set up Vader for a quicker death is with unblockable damage. And playing kingargyle was really tough!

Yep. I totally forgot I had moved to get there, I just got Slam happy.

Great summary. I do agree that the 2 black die on defense can make or break you.

Been testing Vader a bit, fun, but it's the snake eyes red dice after the reroll that has been breaking me. Now I know how Vader felt at the end of Episode III.

Do you still make your podcast downloadable? I'm not able to download the last one.(No wifi at home). Thanks for your your work. I like to listen to your podcast will painting my minis.