I'm not sure if anyone posted this squad before, but still curious about thoughts as it seems to be on par with 4 TLT Agressors threat-wise

I looks solid on paper; Fire the harpoons and then follow up with the protons.

I would be temped to swap out the Guidance Chips for Long Range Sensor on the Harpoon guys; this way you can queue the ships nice and early and then slam away and reacquire .

On a whole I like it;

I would try this:

You don't need to worry about TL and can spend focus instead.

I definitely agree with the1hodgy about LRS on your harpooners. There was a similar list floating around using Deadeye Rho's as missile carriers and Mangler Nu's as your triggers. That let you target lock at long range for the double mod'ed opening salvo (or with a DE focus to readjust if your opponent is able to arc dodge somewhat) and the follow up from the manglers looks devastating in practice. Neither of them work well with SLAM / reload though, but that might just be a bullet you have to bite if you want to run 4 alphas.

Here's a better one:

GUNBOAT Aces 3

4 hours ago, the1hodgy said:

I would be temped to swap out the Guidance Chips for Long Range Sensor on the Harpoon guys;

To be fair, I'm not getting that LRS idea - it lowers damage output, doesn't provide any benefit (unless the whole squad is reequipped with LRS), telegraphs the intention and can't deal with TL counters (Black One, Countermeasures, etc). What am I missing?

In match ups where Black One, Expert Handing, countermeasures aren't present; your queuing the TL and not missing a shot by fire tracers. increasing the damage output.

The reason for dropping chips is you don't spend your target lock with the harpoons; so you still have it for re-rolls, which is what makes the harpoon so good; and that's before you apply the condition.

The main purpose of LRS is to allow your boats to fire their Harpoon missiles on the first round of shooting. Being fairly low pilot skill, they'd otherwise have the problem that the enemy might be beyond range 3 when they activate but then move into range, allowing them to shoot while the boats have to fire back with their primary weapons. It also doesn't lower damage output if you fly it right; aquire the lock on round 1 and then focus on round 2. The great thing about using it with harpoon missiles, homing missiles and the like is that sometimes you won't need to spend the lock to hit them, somewhat mitigating its drawback.

That said, it is kind of awkward to have some ships in your squad have LRS and others not - ideally you want to be firing all your ordinance at once. I personally kind of like the Mangler idea on the other two boats so all four are at full strength in the initial engagement. You could also put LRS on the torpedo boats, although it isn't as useful for them since they always have to reaquire their locks and focus isn't as good for them.

Black one and countermeasures are going to be a pain for you whichever way you go - another reason to go with Manglers on the other two.

Overall, I like the look of this squad a lot. Happy flying!

Although now that I notice you have thread tracers on all your ships, there's a strong case for Guidance Chips too. I see now what you were saying about LRS being particularly weak to Black One / countermeasures. I'd still consider the Mangler + LRS idea though, since you might not need to waste one or more gunboats firing the chips on round 1.

1 hour ago, the1hodgy said:

The reason for dropping chips is you don't spend your target lock with the harpoons; so you still have it for re-rolls, which is what makes the harpoon so good; and that's before you apply the condition.

The way I see it, harpoons without chips have only 77% chance of delivering 4 hits (before defense dice are taken into account), while chips increase this to an almost-guaranteed 98%. I do understand the point about losing 1 attack to fire tracers, however in my mind this is offset by the fact that this setup adds a lot of flexibility (as it's now enough to have any opponent ship in arc at range 2-3 to launch the strike as opposed to getting a specific ship in arc at range 2-3, while that ship tries to avoid it). Given that LRS doesn't play nice with tracers (a ship with LRS cannot get tracers-supplied TL at range 1-2), its hard for me to justify LRS swap.

I know this list can't afford Adv. SLAM but in general is Guidence Chips better than Adv. SLAM? Also could LRS be competitive, I can definitely see the1hoge's case. Remember I'm asking in general which is better, not worrying about points

There's no good answer to that question. Each of Advanced Slam, Guidance Chips, and Long Range Scanners serves a role.

Advanced SLAM is (I think) mostly going to be good with OS-1 Gunboats. Being able to SLAM, action, and then attack isn't bad. With the OS-1 title, being able to SLAM, TL, then shoot a missile, followed by a next turn of SLAM and Reload might be a reasonably solid build. On an XG-1 Gunboat, here's where the cost of Advanced Slam might be an issue. You might be better off with Linked Batteries, if your plan is to SLAM and shoot with a 2-cost cannon. It'll always add a benefit when attacking, not just after a SLAM, and for pushing damage having one reroll isn't much worse than having a Focus token. If you have neither title, Advanced SLAM starts to look a lot worse.

LRS is a strong general upgrade. It allows a low-PS ship to get a target lock on a higher-PS ship, so you can take a missile or torpedo shot on the first engagement. However, there's some anti-synergy with reload, since you'll need to clear out of the scrum to get a second TL to shoot a second missile. It's probably best to presume that most Gunboats won't have a solid chance to reload. If it happens, great, but build the list around the thought that you probably won't. Long Range Scanners will certainly be a weaker choice if a ship has two separate missile/torpedo upgrades, like Plasma Torpedos and Cluster Missiles. You'll struggle to get a second TL to shoot both ordnance.

GC adds good damage, but it'll be hardest to use on lower PS ships (since they'll have more trouble getting the target locks you need to fire Ordnance). With VI on the PS 7 pilot, I think Guidance Chips might be a solid choice. That said, it might not be the right choice on Gunboats specifically.

//

On paper, my favorite Gunboat build so far is Nu with XG-1, Flechette Cannon, LRS, and a Harpoon Missile (for the Missile/Torp choice, it's 'season to taste' if you don't like Harpoon). That'll come out to 25 points, have an opening-round ordnance attack, and you'll be able to fire with Flechette on turns when you SLAM or reload. Kind of a hybrid, do-it-all gunboat.

The version I'm most excited to fly would be Nu with XG-1, Flechette, Linked Batteries, and Advanced SLAM. That's far more "all in" on the cannon and is probably a worse list (really low damage), but it looks like it'd be a lot of fun on casual night.

My take on this:

GC is the best upgrade for missile-carrying ships as long as there is a way to supply them with the target lock, as it maximizes a chance for the ordnance to deal maximum damage (and to get through all those green dice/reinforce/etc) which is paramount for an alpha strike. (Also as an added benefit it significantly bumps up a chance of keeping TL after Harpoon shot). There are several ways to build in a way to supply TLs to a squad (even a low PS one), so I expect to see GC gunboats mostly in a specialized/semi-specialized squads, as GC Nu missile boat doesn't really work as a squad filler for a generic squad.

LRS is a method to overcome that TL problem, however it has its own limitations, so I expect to see it mostly on filler low PS ships (for example, Nu boat with harpoon and LRS is only 22 pts). I'm personally not a fan of the upgrade as it has too many drawbacks for my personal taste, however I do see a case for it here.

Adv SLAM is going to be used mostly with higher PS gunboats (and, maybe, cannon boats) as higher PS boat5s get more out of slamming (due to the extra knowledge about a board state) and SLAM-Adv.SLAM TL sequence is harder to pull off for low PS boats, as opponent ship needs to be in range 3 before its own maneuver and in range 2-3 and in arc after it executes maneuver. So, for that reason I can see low-PS missile boats to opt for LRS instead.

this is my take.

the thought is you rotate. 2 use cannons and 2 use ordnance. Keep your target locked down.