I ran a double Striker and 1 Phantom last week, and I really like flying the Phantom with the added movement from uncloaking. With the new FAQ and using the bank template, I want to run a squad with double Phantoms. I threw in the Aggressor for the added weapon and turret modifications just to add additional damage when formation is not pointed in the right direction.

100 Points

Phantoms:

Whisper+ FCS/VI/ACD (39)

Echo + FCS/VI/ACD (37)

Aggressor:

Double Edge + Calculation + Blaster Turret (24)

You probably want to drop either calculation or the blaster turret, as they don't synergize at all. BT requires that you spend a focus to perform your attack, leaving you nothing to trigger Calculation. Deadeye/Synced turret is the same cost and gives you a bit more flexibility, although you're still action locked into focusing. Trickshot/Ion Turret might be another viable option and helps your phantoms more by knowing exactly where your opponents will be.

As for the double phantoms. They throw a lot of dice and are pretty hard to hit if you get to shoot first. You shouldn't have too much trouble with those lists if you're doing well with your decloaking. Unfortunately, there are a lot of high PS lists going on right now, and 8 and 9 is probably not likely to shoot first. Always give your lists a try, but do give some time before you hit the mat and figure out how you will play around being the low PS ace in the game.

Yeah, don't ever take Blaster Turret until it gets some sort of errata ( glares at FFG)

11 hours ago, Jimbawa said:

Deadeye/Synced turret is the same cost and gives you a bit more flexibility, although you're still action locked into focusing. Trickshot/Ion Turret might be another viable option and helps your phantoms more by knowing exactly where your opponents will be.

As for the double phantoms. They throw a lot of dice and are pretty hard to hit if you get to shoot first. You shouldn't have too much trouble with those lists if you're doing well with your decloaking.

Thanks. So Deadeye will let me use a focus instead of TL. Can I still use TL during the same attack phase to reroll after I spent the focus? There were 2 different answers I found.

44 minutes ago, gcanders said:

Thanks. So Deadeye will let me use a focus instead of TL. Can I still use TL during the same attack phase to reroll after I spent the focus? There were 2 different answers I found.

If you have a target lock from a previous turn or PTL, yes, you can use both the focus and the TL if you desire.

I agree that Echo is too low in this PS meta. However, Whisper can still work with a respectable bid. I also like Double-Edge, but I think you could capitalize on his pilot ability more. I might suggest the following

Whisper

VI

FCS

Adv. Cloaking Device

Agent Kallus or Intelligence Agent (to help against high PS opponents)

Double Edge

Deadeye

Synced Turret

Unguided Rockets

LWF

Omega Leader

Juke

Comm Relay

or

Pure Sabacc

Title

LWF

Choice of EPT

or

Tomax Bren

Crack Shot

Unguided Rockets

LWF

4 hours ago, gcanders said:

Thanks. So Deadeye will let me use a focus instead of TL. Can I still use TL during the same attack phase to reroll after I spent the focus? There were 2 different answers I found.

There's a yes and no here definitely, so I'll explain. Yes, you may always spend your target lock to reroll your dice for an attack, a few niche cases notwithstanding. But, if you have them in your primary arc, you already have rerolls on 2 of the 3 dice. If you choose to use those rerolls, you can't spend your target lock to reroll those 2 dice a second time. You could spend the target lock to reroll the last die in that situation or to reroll all 3 at a target out of arc. Basically, every die can be rolled once and rerolled once, no more.

For clarification, with Deadeye and a synced turret, you are only required to have that focus token to use the attack and may use it on any target in range. You don't actually spend it unless you are fixing focus results to hits or activating a pilot ability such as Lt. Kestal's. To that end, yes you may reroll 2 of the 3 dice for free if they are in arc or spend a target lock to reroll any dice not already rerolled AND spend your focus to further fix results afterwards (which is the optimal way to modify to maximize your results).

Also, check in with your local TO or the head honcho at your local gaming store about how they handle Deadeye. My local area has lately been accepting that you can use the focus from Deadeye as a true target lock (can be spent for attack dice rerolls and pilot abilities that spend target locks during an attack for some effect) and that means you get incredibly more use from that focus token than a target lock. If that is becoming more widely accepted in your area, you would always want to spend a target lock first if you have one and would only take a target lock action when you literally have nothing better to do.

1 hour ago, Jimbawa said:

There's a yes and no here definitely, so I'll explain. Yes, you may always spend your target lock to reroll your dice for an attack, a few niche cases notwithstanding. But, if you have them in your primary arc, you already have rerolls on 2 of the 3 dice. If you choose to use those rerolls, you can't spend your target lock to reroll those 2 dice a second time. You could spend the target lock to reroll the last die in that situation or to reroll all 3 at a target out of arc. Basically, every die can be rolled once and rerolled once, no more.

For clarification, with Deadeye and a synced turret, you are only required to have that focus token to use the attack and may use it on any target in range. You don't actually spend it unless you are fixing focus results to hits or activating a pilot ability such as Lt. Kestal's. To that end, yes you may reroll 2 of the 3 dice for free if they are in arc or spend a target lock to reroll any dice not already rerolled AND spend your focus to further fix results afterwards (which is the optimal way to modify to maximize your results).

Also, check in with your local TO or the head honcho at your local gaming store about how they handle Deadeye. My local area has lately been accepting that you can use the focus from Deadeye as a true target lock (can be spent for attack dice rerolls and pilot abilities that spend target locks during an attack for some effect) and that means you get incredibly more use from that focus token than a target lock. If that is becoming more widely accepted in your area, you would always want to spend a target lock first if you have one and would only take a target lock action when you literally have nothing better to do.

Wow, thanks for all that information. So, during the attack phase, I can do the following with Double Edge?

Target out of primary arc - A. Use synced turret, 2. spend a focus instead of TL, 3. Use TL to re-roll up to all attack dice.

or

B. Use synced turret, 2. spend TL, 3. use focus to modify die

if A or B result in no hits

C. Attack with primary (or other) weapon and use TL or Focus if I have any left (which I wont since primary attack value is just 2 atm.)

So it looks like if I have a target that is out of primary arc, I have to figure the math between using the TL last, as in option A, and using Focus last to modify focus rolls and not have a re-roll. Wouldn't I have better odds re-rolling blank and focus results with the TL in option A? Using a focus only lets me change the focus results, which are two per die, while hits are 4 per die. So it's 50% chance to roll hits, while only a 12% chance to roll a focus.

If I do option A and miss on every die, use TL and still miss on every die, I can then attack with primary. I know it's an outlier, but this lets me roll up to 8 dice to get a hit if I need to because of really bad rolls. 3/3/2

Target is in primary arc and I use the synced turret - A. Use synced turret, 2. spend a focus instead of TL, 3. Use TL to re-roll up to all attack dice.

OR

B. Use synced turret, 2. spend TL instead of Focus, 3. Use ability to re-roll up to two (Primary Weapon Value) dice, OR 3. Use Focus to modify focus results.

OR

C. Use synced turret, 2. spend TL instead of Focus, 3. Use ability to re-roll up to two (Primary Weapon Value) dice, and 3. Keep focus for defense or other.

In option B, can I spend TL to use turrets, re-roll up to two dice from pilot ability, and then use the focus to chance focus results to hits?

Unless I put something out of order, it looks like TL used for Deadshot is better for when the target is in primary arc. When the target is outside of primary arc, I have the chance to re-roll 3 dice to get hits instead of looking for focus results on the initial roll.

Do I have this right? Also, am I right in thinking that my ability with Double Edge will let me miss with secondary weapons and then attack with primary weapon and still be able to use a TL or focus, if I have one?

Thanks,

25 minutes ago, gcanders said:

Target out of primary arc - A. Use synced turret, 2. spend a focus instead of TL, 3. Use TL to re-roll up to all attack dice.

or

B. Use synced turret, 2. spend TL, 3. use focus to modify die

You are not required to spend the focus or target lock to fire a synced turret (you can remove step 2 from each of your turret steps), so you will have both to use to modify your attack. Meaning you can spend the target lock for rerolls (or reroll 2 dice for free in your primary arc) AND then spend your focus to fix results. If that attack misses, then you proceed onto step C and perform an additional attack with a different weapon with whatever target lock and/or focus you have left.

If you're looking for hits, you would:

A1. roll 3 dice for your turret. A2.You can reroll dice either a. 2 for free (if they are in arc), or b. by spending your target lock or focus*. A3. Then you can spend the focus token, if you didn't for rerolls*, to fix any focus results into hits.

If you just want an idea of how many dice you can roll or reroll, you can roll 3 for the synced turret, reroll 2 of those if in arc. If that misses, you could then fire a homing missile (4 dice, requires a focus with deadeye but doesn't spend it to fire the missile) and then spend your focus as a target lock* to reroll up to all 4 of those dice.

That would be rolling 3/2/4/4, or 13 dice but with a max of only 4 damage in one turn (the first attack had to miss), only requiring that you have a focus token.

* Get confirmation from your TO that a Deadeye focus will be allowed to do this. This part is pretty hit or miss depending on your area and local player base.

A Deadeye focus that can be used as both a reroll or focus -> hit correction is always more versatile than a regular target lock and any requirement to spend a target lock for weapon activation (such as a torpedo) should be filled by a TL if possible. That leaves you with the focus to either reroll dice or fix results when the target lock could only be used to reroll.

31 minutes ago, Jimbawa said:

You are not required to spend the focus or target lock to fire a synced turret

Thanks. I had that step mixed up with plasma torpedoes.

And thanks for the rest. That cleared up a lot about this build. Now to test it.

3 hours ago, Greebwahn said:

I agree that Echo is too low in this PS meta. However, Whisper can still work with a respectable bid. I also like Double-Edge, but I think you could capitalize on his pilot ability more. I might suggest the following

Whisper

VI

FCS

Adv. Cloaking Device

Agent Kallus or Intelligence Agent (to help against high PS opponents)

Double Edge

Deadeye

Synced Turret

Unguided Rockets

LWF

Tomax Bren

Crack Shot

Unguided Rockets

LWF

I like this build. I can add an Ion bomb if I don't want to try for initiative. I can't try it out till the Christmas present I just bought myself is opened, though. Or maybe I can just sneak out the Kallus card and then wrap it.

So I just played around with this list.

• Whisper
  • FCS
  • Agent Kallus
  • ACD
  • VI
• Echo
  • FCS
  • Tactician
  • ACD
  • VI
• Countdown
  • Adaptive Ailerons

I have little to no experience with flying Phantoms. It was an overwhelmingly joyous amount of firepower.

Going in tonight with this modified list. I have to make choice between Agent Kallus vs. VI/Deadeye

102 Points (need to lose 2)

Phantoms:

Whisper+ FCS/VI/ACD (+ Agent Kallus ) maybe.

Echo + FCS/ VI /ACD

Aggressor:

Double Edge + Deadyeye /Synced Turret

I can drop Agent Kallus and keep Deadeye on "Double Edge" and VI on "Echo" or I can drop Deadeye and VI on one of the pilots and keep Agent Kallus. Everything else I want to keep intact. I'm edging towards dropping Kallus and maybe trying him out in another game with the same build, but if I'm already going against high PS squads, VI isn't going to help too much.