1 minute ago, Pooleman said:I play Luke and Wedge all the time. I prefer thematic fun matches over meta heavy lists. I flew a Nym Dash list recently. It was so dominant that it was boring.
I do too. But what happens when Luke and Wedge face off against pre-nerf Scum Nym and Dengar? Or meet PS 11 Imperial Alpha strike? I know what happens unless you are both very skilled and very lucky, and your opponent is similarly unskilled and unlucky.
8 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:I do too. But what happens when Luke and Wedge face off against pre-nerf Scum Nym and Dengar? Or meet PS 11 Imperial Alpha strike? I know what happens unless you are both very skilled and very lucky, and your opponent is similarly unskilled and unlucky.
If it happens it happens. There is one guy at the game store who plays the meta heavy Scum lists. He played his 2 new G4H expansions last week and I beet him with Jake Poe Thane. Then he broke out the hounds tooth and twin contracted scout list. The other guys just play what they like.
Edited by PoolemanThe good old "let me take your damage"- R2-D2-Luke still works quite nicely as an escort. He's not pre-nerf-Biggs, but he tends to be more proactive as he can mod his attack more often.
Pair him up with Han, and you got a list that yes, is far from competitive, but still dangerous. Luke will die first most of the time, but has the ability to do so slowly (for an X-Wing), which gives your other ships more leverage.
14 minutes ago, DampfGecko said:The good old "let me take your damage"- R2-D2-Luke still works quite nicely as an escort. He's not pre-nerf-Biggs, but he tends to be more proactive as he can mod his attack more often.
Pair him up with Han, and you got a list that yes, is far from competitive, but still dangerous. Luke will die first most of the time, but has the ability to do so slowly (for an X-Wing), which gives your other ships more leverage.
Most things become much better when you stick R2D2 to them.
I think the biggest issue with the T-65s are simply their cost effectiveness, or lack thereof. It doesn't matter how many upgrades to you slap on a T-65, a T-70 is always going to be better, as it is a better, more modern iteration of the old chassis.
As the analysis says, Poe is simply better than Wedge, but not necesserily because his ability is better, but because his ship is better. I think the only way to make old X-Wings great again, is a title that reduces costs. So there would be an actual reason to take the old X-Wing over the new ones.
T-65 X-Wing (title)
-3 points
"If you equip 1 0-point modification upgrade, you may equip 1 additional modification upgrade, paying the squad point costs as normal."
Would Wedge Antilles with PTL + BB8 + IA + EU + title would be insane metawarping madness for 35 points? Not at all.
Would Rookie Pilot with R2 Astro + IA be a better cheap list filler / blocker for 19 points? Yes, it would.
54 minutes ago, Captain Pellaeon said:I think the biggest issue with the T-65s are simply their cost effectiveness, or lack thereof. It doesn't matter how many upgrades to you slap on a T-65, a T-70 is always going to be better, as it is a better, more modern iteration of the old chassis.
As the analysis says, Poe is simply better than Wedge, but not necesserily because his ability is better, but because his ship is better. I think the only way to make old X-Wings great again, is a title that reduces costs. So there would be an actual reason to take the old X-Wing over the new ones.
T-65 X-Wing (title)
-3 points
"If you equip 1 0-point modification upgrade, you may equip 1 additional modification upgrade, paying the squad point costs as normal."
Would Wedge Antilles with PTL + BB8 + IA + EU + title would be insane metawarping madness for 35 points? Not at all.
Would Rookie Pilot with R2 Astro + IA be a better cheap list filler / blocker for 19 points? Yes, it would.
What about a title akin to Alliance Overhaul that would add a tech slot, another shield, and the boost action to the T-65 to essentially make it a T-70?
2 hours ago, Pooleman said:What about a title akin to Alliance Overhaul that would add a tech slot, another shield, and the boost action to the T-65 to essentially make it a T-70?
Then you’d just have a T-70... so a worthless in the meta ship... why bother? If FFG is going to bandaid a ship, at least get it to a place where it’s a reasonable choice for a store championship... IMO
6 minutes ago, Lobokai said:Then you’d just have a T-70... so a worthless in the meta ship... why bother? If FFG is going to bandaid a ship, at least get it to a place where it’s a reasonable choice for a store championship... IMO
I do t think Wedge or Luke in a T-70 is useless.
23 hours ago, BlodVargarna said:This is what bothers me to no end about XWM. 100 points of X should be similarly competitive to 100 points of Y and Z. But XWM has a point system that doesn’t work.
Not to start a troll war, but I think there is little bit of an inherent fallacy in 100 points of X = 100 points of Y. On paper, the points are the same, but when you start assembling combos, 1 + 1 might = 3. For example, @Magnus Grendel stated its hard to overstated the value of 1 shield. On paper, Shield Upgrade is worth just 1 more point than Hull Upgrade. In play, not suffering a Critical Hit because it splashed on shields is worth a lot more than 1 point. But if you don't suffer a critical hit during play, it's worth +0 extra points, because a hull hit and a shield hit are the same. So, then, what is a shield worth: 0, 1, or 1+??
23 hours ago, Gilarius said:Yes but, as BlodVargarna says, not all points are equal. 25pts of Blue Squadron Novice is inherently better than 25pts of Rookie Pilot. The Rookie can have a torpedo in those points, but will probably still lose to the baby Blue. And both will probably lose to a Contracted Scout, assuming equal player skill.
Just like above, it's synergy. And the unspecified cost of a good dial.
22 hours ago, BlodVargarna said:In 100/6 yes.
In a beer and pretzels game with a friend who agrees theme > ‘competitive play’ there’s plenty of reasons.
Even in Epic, where some of those stronger ships do show up, the T-65 does quite well. But. . .
On 11/5/2017 at 8:26 AM, Gilarius said:Red Squadron Pilot: an EPT slot would at least give you a reason to use it. Epic games might want these to equal huge ships’ PS for simultaneous fire.
. . .it could really use a generic with an EPT.
6 hours ago, Pooleman said:What about a title akin to Alliance Overhaul that would add a tech slot, another shield, and the boost action to the T-65 to essentially make it a T-70?
I'd rather have two types of X-Wings that fill different roles, rather than two exactly the same ones. What you say makes sense from a certain point, but I can't help but feel the two ships should remain different.
2 hours ago, Captain Pellaeon said:I'd rather have two types of X-Wings that fill different roles, rather than two exactly the same ones. What you say makes sense from a certain point, but I can't help but feel the two ships should remain different.
This ^^^
Don't just make the T-65 a T-70. Give it a title that gives it a free barrel roll and allows any proton torpedo upgrade to be fit for free, or something equally different than the T-70.
14 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:Not to start a troll war, but I think there is little bit of an inherent fallacy in 100 points of X = 100 points of Y. On paper, the points are the same, but when you start assembling combos, 1 + 1 might = 3. For example, @Magnus Grendel stated its hard to overstated the value of 1 shield. On paper, Shield Upgrade is worth just 1 more point than Hull Upgrade. In play, not suffering a Critical Hit because it splashed on shields is worth a lot more than 1 point. But if you don't suffer a critical hit during play, it's worth +0 extra points, because a hull hit and a shield hit are the same. So, then, what is a shield worth: 0, 1, or 1+??
Agreed. Things like this are conditional on the ship itself.
It's why - speaking of 'upgraded versions', I find the TIE/fo amazing and think it's shield token is worth far more.
Equally, Integrated Astromech in theory is 'an extra hit point' for 1 point (if you have a cheap 'mech you're basically just buying to allow you to equip this card), but it's worth way more - because it near-as-dammit turns those three hull into more shields by letting you discard a bad critical of your choice.
11 hours ago, Captain Pellaeon said:I'd rather have two types of X-Wings that fill different roles, rather than two exactly the same ones. What you say makes sense from a certain point, but I can't help but feel the two ships should remain different.
Definitely.
"Making the X-wing better" generally runs into the problem of turning it into a T-70. Because "an X-wing but better" is what the T-70 is.
If I wanted to 'fix' it, I would rather make the T-65 cheaper. By all means give it a slight kick up in capability, but if you shave only a very few points off it, it doesn't actually need too much oomph: