T-65 X-Wing Pilots: an Analysis

By Gilarius, in X-Wing

T-65 X-Wing Pilots: an Analysis (Warning: long, but maybe useful post)

Ship notes:

X-Wings have attack 3, agility 2, 3 hull, and 2 shields. Integrated Astromech helps with their durability, but also hinders their effectiveness as torpedo carriers since IA precludes taking Guidance Chips. IA also requires spending at least one more point on an Astromech.

They also benefit greatly from having a focus token for their defence, which makes using their k-turn tricky. A tokenless X-Wing generally dies rapidly, and their poor range of green manoeuvres mean that a stressed X-Wing is very predictable or ineffective when keeping the stress. However, lacking boost or barrel roll means that they take a long time turning round without the k-turn – and means that enemy ships can safely chase them. However, their 3 attack dice make them reasonably dangerous if they can get both a target lock and a focus to spend on their attacks. Getting double actions is quite hard, though, being limited to either an EPT (PTL, Expertise, Rage) or a Modification (Vectored Thrusters or Engine Upgrade to trigger Intensity, or Experimental Interface) – and all of these are either expensive in points or add stress which is hard to shed, or both. With practice, they can be flown well; however that same amount of practice spent flying better ships will result in more victories!

Pilots:

PS2 Rookie Pilot 21pts

PS4 Red Squadron Pilot 23pts

PS3 Tarn Mison 23pts When an enemy ship declares you as the target of an attack, you may acquire a target lock on that ship.

PS5 Hobbie Klivian 25pts When you acquire or spend a target lock, you may remove 1 stress token from your ship.

PS5 Biggs Darklighter 25pts Other friendly ships at Range 1 cannot be targeted by attacks if the attacker could target you instead – errata’ed to only function for one combat turn.

PS6 Garven Dreis 26pts After spending a focus token, you may place that token on any other friendly ship at Range 1-2 (instead of discarding it).

PS7 Jek Porkins 26pts When you receive a stress token, you may remove it and roll 1 attack die. On a hit result, deal 1 facedown Damage card to this ship. Has EPT.

PS8 Luke Skywalker 28pts When defending, you may change 1 of your focus results to an evade result. Has EPT.

PS8 Wes Jansen 29pts After you perform an attack, you may remove 1 focus, evade, or blue target lock token from the defender. Has EPT.

PS9 Wedge Antilles 29pts When attacking, reduce the defender's agility value by 1 (to a minimum of "0"). Has EPT.

Rookie Pilot : not quite cheap enough to run 5 in a list. As a filler, the T-70 is inherently better if you have the points for it. Edited to add: 25pts of Blue Squadron Novice is inherently better than 25pts of Rookie Pilot. The Rookie can have a torpedo in those points, but will probably still lose to the baby Blue. And both will probably lose to a Contracted Scout, assuming equal player skill.

Red Squadron Pilot : an EPT slot would at least give you a reason to use it. Epic games might want these to equal huge ships’ PS for simultaneous fire.

Tarn Mison : excellent ability, best paired with M9G8 (3pts) or R7 Astromech (2pts). However, Jess Pava at 2 pts more in her T-70 has a better attack whilst also making it unpleasant for opponents to shoot her – and doesn’t need any particular astromech to function, so ends up costing the same. And she has a better dial, boost, and an extra shield.

Hobbie Klivian : as long as he has a Targeting Astromech (2pts) and an enemy within range of a target lock, Hobbie becomes an excellently manoeuvrable ship. He can k-turn, gain a TL from the astromech, which sheds his stress, and then take his focus action. At 27pts, this makes him a poor-man’s Tie Defender and the ‘best’ X-Wing in the game for his cost. His ability triggers when he spends a target lock too, so stress that gets assigned to him (cough: Assaj) can be removed easily too, and he isn’t tied to using green moves unlike other ships. Works nicely when flying with Dutch Vander, but Dutch is over-priced.

Biggs Darklighter : a very well-known pilot. Just been nerfed. Do I need to explain anything about him?

Garven Dreis : His ability is very useful, except his Pilot Skill is too low to pass the token on to useful friends, unless the enemy shoots at him early on in the round – whereupon he doesn’t get to modify his own attack. And, like almost all X-Wings, he struggles to keep his gun pointing at enemies without k-turning – which precludes his action due to stress, etc, so he tends to only get to use his ability once or twice in a game. Needs VI to get his PS higher, but that means taking R2D6 to get the slot. Better in epic games, but still not worth the extra points compared to almost anything else (eg Capt. Rex). Costs too much to be worth fitting into a 4-ship list and isn’t effective enough to use in a 3-ship list.

Jek Porkins : apart from Hobbie (and builds using BB8), Jek is the most manoeuvrable X-Wing, since he can k-turn and shed the stress. However, using his ability almost guarantees wrecking his ship, so he also needs the expensive R5D8 (3pts) to try to fix the resultant damage. This is both a random dice roll and costs him his action. To maximise the effectiveness of his ability, he also needs an EPT such as Expertise…which makes him far too expensive. I’ve played him a lot, casually and in tournaments, just to prove how poor he is. He is a lot of fun and allows for a lot of Star Wars quotes and banter with your opponent, but there is no logical reason to ever fly him (he’s still a lot better than Fel’s Wrath, though!), because he ends up just as expensive as one of the top 3 X-Wings and he doesn’t fit into a 4-ship list. Hobbie is simply better and cheaper.

Luke Skywalker : His ability makes him resilient and still have some defence after k-turning. Often paired with R2D2 to maximise his durability. High enough PS to be able to take eg Lone Wolf and make use of it, or VI to move after many opponents. He’s reasonably effective, but still not an efficient use of the points he costs, compared with eg a cut-price Miranda with TLT. Or Poe Dameron…

Wes Jansen : good ability, usually has VI so he shoots early in the round to strip opponent’s tokens. Often gets R3A2 to also stress them. Doesn’t tend to do much damage, due to needing his focus for defence, and very limited dial if he is using R3A2 and wants to shed his own stress afterwards. Braylen Stramm, for a similar cost, is better at being a stress-dealer. Wes might come back into the meta if ordnance really becomes hot, but his cost makes him a very expensive support ship.

Wedge Antilles : one of the best abilities around also makes him a high priority target and he can’t afford to get shot. This means building him with some re-positioning. BB8 and PTL work well, at the cost of making him predictable since that combo needs him to reveal green moves (reveal green; do a free barrel roll; use PTL to do another action for a stress; do the green, shedding the stress; get normal action). Engine Upgrade, if you have the points, is also good. But all of this makes him as expensive as Poe – and nowhere near as durable. Wedge, Airen Cracken, and Captain Nym make an effective PS10 alpha striking team, but Nym is the one who does most of the heavy lifting. Luke or Wes could be used instead, but they cost just as much and Wedge’s ability is better if your game-plan depends on removing an enemy before it can shoot. And the PS11x2, PS10 Imperial version can kill him before he shoots. Vader and Quickdraw are better than Wedge; Inquisitor is better than Airen – which means that it all depends on Nym!

tl;dr?

So, overall, Hobbie Klivian is worth taking and using . The other decent pilots are largely superseded by T-70 pilots (Tarn by Jess; Luke & Wedge by Poe). Biggs, despite his nerf, will still protect more fragile ships so will be used by people who get the hang of the tactics of timing his use – but Lowhhrick is probably more effective now albeit at a slightly higher cost.

Lots of people have come up with various fixes for X-Wings, often focussing on repositioning. I’d be happy with either a straight points reduction, or an equivalent of the Vaksai title so adding upgrades becomes easier and more worthwhile. And allowing Integrated Astromech to be taken along with more modifications – Guidance Chips plus a torpedo at 2 pts would add quite a lot of teeth to any X-Wing; Vectored Thrusters at 1pt without losing the IA; Engine Upgrade plus Autothrusters and IA would help the top pilots. Another possible fix might be adding the ability of an R2 Astromech to the IA card, so another astromech could be taken whilst giving the ship more green moves.

Edited by Gilarius
Adding a useful note. Thanks BlodVargana & ObiWonka.

Hobbie with Targeting Astromech is cool. There will always be better ships to take than T-65s unfortunately. I eschewed Biggs at least a year ago so his nerf is inconsequential to my list building.

The problem I see with T-65s is that to use them in a list (not including pre-nerf Biggs) is that it basically requires an understanding with your opponent that they aren’t going to bring competitive ships. Then the two of you can push around thematic ships, go “pew pew pew,” and have lots of fun. Otherwise playing with T-65s is really an NPE.

9 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

Hobbie with Targeting Astromech is cool. There will always be better ships to take than T-65s unfortunately. I eschewed Biggs at least a year ago so his nerf is inconsequential to my list building.

The problem I see with T-65s is that to use them in a list (not including pre-nerf Biggs) is that it basically requires an understanding with your opponent that they aren’t going to bring competitive ships. Then the two of you can push around thematic ships, go “pew pew pew,” and have lots of fun. Otherwise playing with T-65s is really an NPE.

This

Unfortunstely it is pretty much true of all original movie classic Star Wars Ships released before the time Scum entered the game. Maybe XWM 2.0 will flip the power curve to favor original trilogy ships over cartoon Rebels, later movie and obscure stuff?

It is our only hope....

Edited by clanofwolves
2 minutes ago, clanofwolves said:

This

Unfortunstely it is pretty much true of all original movie classic Star Wars Ships released before the time Scum entered the game. Maybe XWM 2.0 will flip the power curve to favor original trilogy ships over cartoon Rebels, later movie and obscure stuff?

It is our only hope....

I would argue we are already living in X-Wing 2.0. Perhaps we are about to move to X-Wing 3.0 with all that talk about arc-dodging in the new article but who knows.

Still won't stop me from buying ships lol

It keeps coming back to “casual play,” which works if you and your opponent are on he same page. Discussing what types of ships each plans to bring beforehand can really lead to fun game play. But bringing your Yavin list to “casual night” at the FLGS and playing randoms will result in a curb stomping and not much fun.

When I play with my friends and family we can make balanced lists with thematic ships and really have lots of fun.

4 minutes ago, Mackaywarrior said:

I would argue we are already living in X-Wing 2.0. Perhaps we are about to move to X-Wing 3.0 with all that talk about arc-dodging in the new article but who knows.

Still won't stop me from buying ships lol

But where does this type of play leave the T-65? Nowheresville.

3 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

But where does this type of play leave the T-65? Nowheresville.

Unless that will be included in the future arc-dodger revamp (X-Wing 3.0). The fact that the article was emphasizing how important arc-dodgers are made me scratch my head. Tack on the Biggs nerf and maybe the fix is on the way.

What can I say, I am a hopeless optimist? lol

Edited by Mackaywarrior

It wouldn’t bother me to see organized play broken down into two catagories: Meta Play and Original Trilogy Play. Basically run both simultaneously at each level event. I’d be curious which would be more popular.

I've been flying Porkins, Dutch, and Hobbie casually and in tournaments. And not just Yavin type themed tournaments either. I am currently on 9 wins out of 18 tournament games, so it's definitely not a curb-stomp. However, it's also not competitive if you want to place well.

I've taken Wedge (along with Airen and Nym) to the final of a store championship with over 20 players - and that is competitive, just not really due to the T65!

I’ve taken to using Luke with Lonewolf, VT or EU and M9G8 alongside Norra and a stressbot. It’s not optimal by any means, but that reroll really helps Norra and not needing a focus for defence and having a reroll from lonewolf plus the ability to reposition makes him actually quite good. Could I spend 35 points on better things? Yep, but when you win and you4 squad includes a t-65 you get better bragging rights.

The old fashioned wedge/wes/Hobbie opportunist build is still pretty strong, especially with the low agility crap out there like Nym. You need to catch and stress stuff like Miranda early on though, or she’ll solo you.

29 minutes ago, Estarriol said:

I’ve taken to using Luke with Lonewolf, VT or EU and M9G8 alongside Norra and a stressbot. It’s not optimal by any means, but that reroll really helps Norra and not needing a focus for defence and having a reroll from lonewolf plus the ability to reposition makes him actually quite good. Could I spend 35 points on better things? Yep, but when you win and you4 squad includes a t-65 you get better bragging rights .

The old fashioned wedge/wes/Hobbie opportunist build is still pretty strong, especially with the low agility crap out there like Nym. You need to catch and stress stuff like Miranda early on though, or she’ll solo you.

A T-65 that isn't Biggs, anyway :) This is one of the reasons why I enjoy my silly Porkins list! There are 9 people who have lost in a tournament to him!

2 hours ago, Gilarius said:

Rookie Pilot: not quite cheap enough to run 5 in a list. As a filler, the T-70 is inherently better if you have the points for it.

I mean, isn't that the whole purpose of points?

Just now, ObiWonka said:

I mean, isn't that the whole purpose of points?

This is what bothers me to no end about XWM. 100 points of X should be similarly competitive to 100 points of Y and Z. But XWM has a point system that doesn’t work.

20 minutes ago, ObiWonka said:

I mean, isn't that the whole purpose of points?

Yes but, as BlodVargarna says, not all points are equal. 25pts of Blue Squadron Novice is inherently better than 25pts of Rookie Pilot. The Rookie can have a torpedo in those points, but will probably still lose to the baby Blue. And both will probably lose to a Contracted Scout, assuming equal player skill.

Edited by Gilarius
And I'm going to add that in the original post.

The best x-wing-centric team I ran was a Wedge with Predator, Wes with VI and Keyan with Opportunist build- Wes would strip tokens, Wedge and Keyan would clean house. It was a lot of fun that had a tendency to chew through aces and big ships alike- Soontir didn't like PS10 Wes. Downside was poor maneuverability and survivability. Even with IA, those X-wings wouldn't hold up for long.

I agree- I think the main problem with X-wings isn't necessarily that they're terrible, but that any time you think about running them, something else is a better choice for the points. Also, X-wings are terrible.

A nice title idea someone threw out was something along the lines of- "If a ship in your firing arc performs a boost or barrel roll, you may immediately perform a boost or barrel." That would help tie into the general theme of X-wings staying on enemy ship's tails and not letting them escape. Both the T-65 and T-70 don't offer much reason to run the generics, the pilots might have some nice abilities or be worth sinking points into, but there's generally no reason to run the base X-wings.

4 minutes ago, GameError said:

but there's generally no reason to run the base X-wings.

In 100/6 yes.

In a beer and pretzels game with a friend who agrees theme > ‘competitive play’ there’s plenty of reasons.

Nice! I really like it, and I like to hear people talking about X-Wings, because their pilot abilities are just amazing!

I actually am not sure that 25 points of Blue Squadron Novice is better than 25 points of Rookie Pilot. Taking Plasma Torps and then keeping the Rookie the same as the Novice (R2+IA) gives them a little help, but I actually vastly prefer Rookies with Proton Torpedoes and Guidance Chips. Another thing to keep in mind is that now that Jumpmasters have been nerfed, and Missiles have such great options, it’s likely that we’ll see an even better four-point torpedo coming out soon. I don’t know if it’ll ever be tier one, but ordnance Rookies can actually be pretty scary!

I’d love to see movie ships only FFG events.... no scum, just Imperial and Rebel.

Nice write-up, thank you!
I've tried most T-65 pilots (not a fan of Biggs or his mechanic), and remain a fan of Garven, Hobbie, and Tarn.

The T-65 is a fun ship to fly, and while efforts have been made to bring it back into the spotlight, I remain hopeful that a forthcoming title will see more of them showing up on tables, casual or otherwise.

1 hour ago, Lobokai said:

I’d love to see movie ships only FFG events.... no scum, just Imperial and Rebel.

What about Quads and Firesprays?

1 hour ago, Lobokai said:

I’d love to see movie ships only FFG events.... no scum, just Imperial and Rebel.

Since the 40th Anniversary, quite a few stores near me have run what they are calling Classic events. Or even specific movie-based events. This is what inspired me to start flying Porkins and chums, since the first one I attended was restricted to only ships seen in the original movie - plus TLT was unique, and no Palp.

I will be going to try and play my X-Wings tomorrow if I manage to wake up in time to get to my local game store. I work 3rd shift though so its hard for me to want to wake up early enough to get there since i dont get off work till 7am, dont get home till 8am, and prob dont get to sleep till 9 or 10.....if im lucky, then i would need to wake up by 3 to get ready, and its a hour there to make it there by 5.... ~_~ Its really the only thing I hate about 3rd shift.....

15 hours ago, Gilarius said:

Yes but, as BlodVargarna says, not all points are equal. 25pts of Blue Squadron Novice is inherently better than 25pts of Rookie Pilot. The Rookie can have a torpedo in those points, but will probably still lose to the baby Blue. And both will probably lose to a Contracted Scout, assuming equal player skill.

Agreed. I like the baby blues, but I'll wholeheartedly hold it up as an example of power creep (not that it's the worst offender, but it's one of the easiest to compare 'like for like' with what is supposed to be an equivalent ship):

  • The T65 to T70 is a 3 point upgrade giving you essentially 7 points of stuff (shield upgrade and engine upgrade)
  • That's assigning a zero cost to the empty tech slot, speed 3 green straight and (most importantly) talon rolls
  • The points cost increase is specifically not enough to reduce the number of ships you get - 3 'aces' or 4 'sparsely equipped'.
  • The generic T70 is still not especially impressive in its results!

Theoretically 4 Rookie Pilots versus 4 Blue Novices should be an even fight.

  • The Targeting Astromech does give the Rookies an advantage of a target lock in the K-turns over the Novices' ability to do hard turns coming out of said K-turns.
  • It's hard to overstate the value of the extra shield
  • There....isn't a lot you can do with those 2 points on the rookie. Flechette Torpedoes? Seismic Torpedoes?

I agree Hobbie is nice, but yeah. I feel like I'd want to take 4 cheap X-wings and even with Hobbie and Tarn, for example, I don't feel like it makes up for the extra mass and speed of the 4 x T-70 list.

19 hours ago, Gilarius said:

Getting double actions is quite hard, though, being limited to either an EPT (PTL, Expertise, Rage) or a Modification (Vectored Thrusters or Engine Upgrade to trigger Intensity, or Experimental Interface) – and all of these are either expensive in points or add stress which is hard to shed, or both. With practice, they can be flown well; however that same amount of practice spent flying better ships will result in more victories!

You can't use EI on Actions on your Action bar.

20 hours ago, BlodVargarna said:

But where does this type of play leave the T-65? Nowheresville.

I play Luke and Wedge all the time. I prefer thematic fun matches over meta heavy lists. I flew a Nym Dash list recently. It was so dominant that it was boring.