3 minutes ago, SideshowLucifer said:

What your missing is that these decisions are what made L5R the game it was. It was the only game that had the choices and consequences for competing.

This is the draw for a huge portion of the ccg player base. Without that, you basicly have GoT with samurai.

Then find another prize. Make characters, change story, Make cards. Not restrict an entire player base for an en tire year to grant some one the illusion.

1 minute ago, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

Yes... and this is a mechanic in the game.

"Oh no, I cant use these 12-15 cards out of roughly 300 for one year because someone made a choice, such sorrow, such loss..."

People say this forgetting that the game already limits more then half the card pool just by choosing a clan. Its a variation and changing deck restriction, suck it up lol.

No Choosing a Seeker and Keeper role as per their rule book is the mechanic of the game. Which, SHOCKER, is not my argument Forcing people to play a role as per the restriction of a tournament prize is not a mechanic.

We'd love them to do more story-based decisions. That was how AEG did things. But it's way more costly to the company and the margins on LCGs, especially in the long run, do not support a lot of overhead.

Just now, Reins Vengard said:

Forcing people to play a role as per the restriction of a tournament prize is not a mechanic.

Yes, its a competitive deck building restriction. Its a mechanic implemented that they base their tournament season around.

1 minute ago, Reins Vengard said:

Then find another prize. Make characters, change story, Make cards. Not restrict an entire player base for an en tire year to grant some one the illusion.

No Choosing a Seeker and Keeper role as per their rule book is the mechanic of the game. Which, SHOCKER, is not my argument Forcing people to play a role as per the restriction of a tournament prize is not a mechanic.

To the find another prize statement, I foresee you getting a find another game replies.

These restrictions in the game are very much a part of the game for many of us. Telling us to find another prize is as uncompromising as telling you to find another game. Neither is particularly going to alleviate the confrontation.

The best part Is when people don't even have the courage to allow the first year to play out. New roles have existed for TWO DAYS, let it run for a bit at least before complaining about a system that actually is revolutionary in the market lol.

May I say that I’m really surprised that, among all the rules that seriously limits our choices in the game, the role one is the only to attract so much heat that someone houseruled it out?

What about not being able to splash in the dynasty deck? Or the limit to only one clan for splash? Ot the whole influence thing that restricts the whole splashing to 3-10 cards only?

Story choices should be story choices, no gameplay choices.

I thought the keeper/seeker stuff was fun, until people made choices just to downgrade another clan rhey don't play, just because they don't like it.

We are paying for cards we won't be able to use, just because of someone else's decission. That's cool for a couple of months, not for a whole year. Not this way.

I do enjoy pointless round and rounds.

2 minutes ago, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

The best part Is when people don't even have the courage to allow the first year to play out. New roles have existed for TWO DAYS, let it run for a bit at least before complaining about a system that actually is revolutionary in the market lol.

WE'VE ALREADY SEEN THE EFFECTS THAT'S WHY THIS THREAD EXISTS. Get your head out of the "Everything FFG does is so great" sand and pay attention.

Just now, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

The best part Is when people don't even have the courage to allow the first year to play out. New roles have existed for TWO DAYS, let it run for a bit at least before complaining about a system that actually is revolutionary in the market lol.

This is the other extreme of the argument. Not all of us take the game so seriously. Using a rule or not has nothing to do with "courage". A system that simply limits your card options is not "revolutionary".

To be fair, no matter what role was chosen, there would be cards you can't play.

I'm not a huge fan of the roles in general, but at least it creates an easy way to mix up the game and alter it.

Down the road we might see other roles like protector, advisor, etc. We might also get to change what the ring effects are.

All of these provide a way to alter a game in the lcg format since it has limitations the ccg format didn't have.

Just now, Barbacuo said:

Story choices should be story choices, no gameplay choices.

I thought the keeper/seeker stuff was fun, until people made choices just to downgrade another clan rhey don't play, just because they don't like it.

We are paying for cards we won't be able to use, just because of someone else's decission. That's cool for a couple of months, not for a whole year. Not this way.

You can still use those cards, just play another clan to use them. If your going to complain because a faction restricts you from using cards... in a faction based game...

I mean I don't complain that I cant run Bayushi Shoju in my Phoenix deck, this isn't any different, except that in a years time you might suddenly be able to use them again.

Just now, Reins Vengard said:

WE'VE ALREADY SEEN THE EFFECTS THAT'S WHY THIS THREAD EXISTS. Get your head out of the "Everything FFG does is so great" sand and pay attention.

You've been to the end of this year, seeing all the cards coming out and how the meta changed around these decisions already? You've watched the upcoming tournament season in full and are a reliable arbiter of the actual player base? WOW, time traveling must be amazing!

The card base is literally about to practically double over the next months! We haven't even had a single expansion released, go and tell me how your so good at paying attention lol. Being able to say, "Hey, lets be patient and see how it plays out for more then a single month after release," is a **** of a lot more caring about paying attention then reactionary nonsense for a system that hasn't had any real time to stretch itself out around.

1 minute ago, SolidusPrime said:

This is the other extreme of the argument. Not all of us take the game so seriously. Using a rule or not has nothing to do with "courage". A system that simply limits your card options is not "revolutionary".

If you don't take the game seriously, then the whining over 7-12 cards over 300 should mean nothing to you.

7 minutes ago, SolidusPrime said:

This is the other extreme of the argument. Not all of us take the game so seriously. Using a rule or not has nothing to do with "courage". A system that simply limits your card options is not "revolutionary".

We've gotten to the point where "You can't have that" is considered a maverick idea. I was like you guys. Loved that L5R had "player driven decisions" if it wasn;'t for that my favorite character Toturi would've never been emperor. But him being emperor didn't stop me from playing in my naga deck. I sat through the rain of Blood and watched dozens of character become Shadowlands. Didn't stop me from running cards in my crane deck

4 minutes ago, SideshowLucifer said:

I'm not a huge fan of the roles in general, but at least it creates an easy way to mix up the game and alter it.

Down the road we might see other roles like protector, advisor, etc. We might also get to change what the ring effects are.

All of these provide a way to alter a game in the lcg format since it has limitations the ccg format didn't have.

I like you because you offer solutions beyond "Shut up, play something else." You're interested in the health of the game beyond a join me or die campaign.

Just think if the winner could have killed a clan champion and made them unplayable.

6 minutes ago, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

You can still use those cards, just play another clan to use them. If your going to complain because a faction restricts you from using cards... in a faction based game...

I mean I don't complain that I cant run Bayushi Shoju in my Phoenix deck, this isn't any different, except that in a years time you might suddenly be able to use them again.

You've been to the end of this year, seeing all the cards coming out and how the meta changed around these decisions already? You've watched the upcoming tournament season in full and are a reliable arbiter of the actual player base? WOW, time traveling must be amazing!

The card base is literally about to practically double over the next months! We haven't even had a single expansion released, go and tell me how your so good at paying attention lol. Being able to say, "Hey, lets be patient and see how it plays out for more then a single month after release," is a **** of a lot more caring about paying attention then reactionary nonsense for a system that hasn't had any real time to stretch itself out around.

If you don't take the game seriously, then the whining over 7-12 cards over 300 should mean nothing to you.

Not everyone that disagrees with you is whining. No need for the childish name calling. Is it such a radical idea that someone can be interested in the competitive scene and not like this rule?

3 minutes ago, SideshowLucifer said:

Just think if the winner could have killed a clan champion and made them unplayable.

Haha if they do that be prepared for that choice to be made by the first person to offer $1000 bounty on some champ's head.

3 minutes ago, TheItsyBitsySpider said:

You can still use those cards, just play another clan to use them. If your going to complain because a faction restricts you from using cards... in a faction based game...

I mean I don't complain that I cant run Bayushi Shoju in my Phoenix deck, this isn't any different, except that in a years time you might suddenly be able to use them again.

You've been to the end of this year, seeing all the cards coming out and how the meta changed around these decisions already? You've watched the upcoming tournament season in full and are a reliable arbiter of the actual player base? WOW, time traveling must be amazing!

The card base is literally about to practically double over the next months! We haven't even had a single expansion released, go and tell me how your so good at paying attention lol. Being able to say, "Hey, lets be patient and see how it plays out for more then a single month after release," is a **** of a lot more caring about paying attention then reactionary nonsense for a system that hasn't had any real time to stretch itself out around.

If you don't take the game seriously, then the whining over 7-12 cards over 300 should mean nothing to you.

I love how you're just being a condescending troll this suits you so well. Makes it easier to ignore you.

Now the reason people aren't whining about Dynasty and conflict deck mixing. Is because people (who clearly have more foresight than you) realize that could get unwieldy and some generally broken nonsense and combos could be bred from it. Where as the Keeper/seeker Yearly update is completely unnecessary and restrictive.

27 minutes ago, Barbacuo said:

until people made choices just to downgrade another clan rhey don't play, just because they don't like it.

That didn't happen and repeating it again and again as a broken record won't make it any more true.

The 2 guys who made the decision (known here as Hinomura - scorpion hatamoto since GenCon and scorpion player for a long time in the old ccg - and Evilgm - admin of the scorpion clan forum) are both currently scorpion players. FFS, it has been repeated again and again, how is it so difficult to understand?

5 minutes ago, SideshowLucifer said:

Just think if the winner could have killed a clan champion and made them unplayable.

See my first knee jerk reaction is no. But I don't hate this. Mainly because I believe most champs are going to be cycled out of decks when more cost effective cards come out.

Its not a slam dunk but its definitely a more tempered idea than the current system. Appeases those who dream of one day winning the big one by creating a story prize worth winning (for those who still covet that kinda thing.)

2 minutes ago, KerenRhys said:

That didn't happen and repeating it again and again as a broken record won't make it any more true.

The 2 guys who made the decision (known as Hinomura and Evilgm on this forum) are both currently scorpion players. FFS, it has been repeated again and again, how is it so difficult to understand?

Besides people shouldn't be blaming them for a decision they had to make. Quite frankly they shouldn't of had to make that decision in the first place. Don't hate the player hate the game (By that I strictly mean the keeper seeker annual update rule. I have no major qualms with much else)

1 minute ago, Reins Vengard said:

See my first knee jerk reaction is no. But I don't hate this. Mainly because I believe most champs are going to be cycled out of decks when more cost effective cards come out.

Its not a slam dunk but its definitely a more tempered idea than the current system. Appeases those who dream of one day winning the big one by creating a story prize worth winning (for those who still covet that kinda thing.)

Wait. You think that banning the most powerful card in one particular clan, chosen by the winner, is a better solution than the current role rules?

I'm really not sure how to take that, but probably not seriously.

4 minutes ago, Reins Vengard said:

Where as the Keeper/seeker Yearly update is completely unnecessary and restrictive.

No, it shakes up the format and forces players to make new decisions, otherwise the best cards in clans will simply always rise to the surface in an eternal format that LCGs have.

Its a minor restriction that effects 20 cards out of this years 300, that they clearly are designing around. There is a reason Talisman of the Sun is only for Keeper roles afterall.

Its not a terrible problem, its not a "rule that stops new players", its just something YOU dislike. Your making a far larger deal over something that effects so few cards in your deck.

1 minute ago, Tonbo Karasu said:

Wait. You think that banning the most powerful card in one particular clan, chosen by the winner, is a better solution than the current role rules?

I'm really not sure how to take that, but probably not seriously.

its more math than anything based on how many people and clans it'll effect. And power level of champions is pretty subjective. By no means is it a slam dunk idea but at least someone is proposing something.

Has nobody mentioned that cards may have been designed and balanced so that they can't be played with each other due to roles? I don't understand how people can have such a huge issue with what amounts to a core principle of the game. Its a deck construction restriction. The same way that mana costs are restrictive in Magic.

Also Keeper of the Void is an AMAZING choice. Is it better than seeker of the void? I can't say, I don't think anyone can but playing those two void provinces and the generating the easier of the economy gains is a big deal. Shameful Display is so good that I think most phoenix decks will run it over Kuroi Mori. Getting that and Pilgrimage and getting fate for them is AMAZING.