Another thread got me thinking about a missed opportunity in X-wing design space. I know I’m not the first person to want flavor text on X-wing cards, and I’m not the first to mention it in these forums. It’s been a while since anyone explored the subject of flavor text in detail, so here I go with a renewed take on an old topic.

I played the Decipher Star Wars CCG many years ago. I loved the cards’ flavor text, and it wasn’t just for flavor. Keywords in the flavor text were developed into game mechanics.

Example: Han Solo’s flavor text mentioned he was a smuggler. There were other cards with effects that applied specifically to cards with the “smuggler” keyword.

It was the same for Jedi, gamblers, bounty hunters, etc.

I think it would be great if X-wing cards had flavor text integrated with gameplay. I’ll make an example, using Han Solo again.

Let’s say Han Solo’s pilot card has flavor text with the smuggler keyword. You could have upgrades that reference it, like Smuggling Compartment. The upgrade could say something like, “If this card is equipped to a ship with smuggler, the squad point cost is -1.”

There’s no way this idea would ever be applies to the existing game. I’m not an advocate for X-wing 2.0, but if it ever happens, I hope flavor text is part of it.

Does anyone else have flavor text ideas for X-wing?

That...uhhh...that's how it works over in Armada?

->

Flavor text is fine.

Keywords are fine.

Mixing flavor text and keywords is bad design.

We already have arguments about similar verbs, and now you want to add more nouns to the list? No. Bad idea. Bad.

18 minutes ago, ObiWonka said:

Flavor text is fine.

Keywords are fine.

Mixing flavor text and keywords is bad design.

Yeh imagine

Darth vader pilot:

Vader is lukes DAD

Luke pilot:

Luke is vaders SON

Rage etp:

If a SON is range one of a DAD and rages he must go to his room and wait till morning before playing again

56 minutes ago, Slugrage said:

We already have arguments about similar verbs, and now you want to add more nouns to the list? No. Bad idea. Bad.

Keywords in a game are typically identified in a way that they can’t be confused. Bold text, different font; designers just have to be careful not to repeat the same word in places it doesn’t belong. It’s binary, a card has it or not. Armada is a great example of using keywords (thanks @xanderf for the images) in card abilities without any ambiguity.

1 hour ago, ObiWonka said:

Flavor text is fine.

Keywords are fine.

Mixing flavor text and keywords is bad design.

You’re entitled to that opinion; could you at least explain it? Do you have an example of a game that did this poorly?

1 hour ago, xanderf said:

That...uhhh...that's how it works over in Armada?

->

Armada makes great use of keywords, but not in the same way. The card games I was refering to had two different text boxes on one card. One was thematic information about the character/ship/etc. and the the other was the card ability. Keywords could appear in a thematic text box, and other card abilities could affect another card with a keyword. The keywords themselves had no effect without a card that referenced them.

1 hour ago, ObiWonka said:

Flavor text is fine.

Keywords are fine.

Mixing flavor text and keywords is bad design.

Can you find the keyword?

Not too hard, eh?

2 hours ago, jmswood said:

Another thread got me thinking about a missed opportunity in X-wing design space. I know I’m not the first person to want flavor text on X-wing cards, and I’m not the first to mention it in these forums. It’s been a while since anyone explored the subject of flavor text in detail, so here I go with a renewed take on an old topic.

I played the Decipher Star Wars CCG many years ago. I loved the cards’ flavor text, and it wasn’t just for flavor. Keywords in the flavor text were developed into game mechanics.

Example: Han Solo’s flavor text mentioned he was a smuggler. There were other cards with effects that applied specifically to cards with the “smuggler” keyword.

It was the same for Jedi, gamblers, bounty hunters, etc.

I think it would be great if X-wing cards had flavor text integrated with gameplay. I’ll make an example, using Han Solo again.

Let’s say Han Solo’s pilot card has flavor text with the smuggler keyword. You could have upgrades that reference it, like Smuggling Compartment. The upgrade could say something like, “If this card is equipped to a ship with smuggler, the squad point cost is -1.”

There’s no way this idea would ever be applies to the existing game. I’m not an advocate for X-wing 2.0, but if it ever happens, I hope flavor text is part of it.

Does anyone else have flavor text ideas for X-wing?

That's dangerously close to narrative elements. I'm not sure XWM can handle that

Keep in mind that some of the flavor text in the Decipher card game was often vague.

"I've taken care of everything", When does he say that?

4 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Keep in mind that some of the flavor text in the Decipher card game was often vague.

"I've taken care of everything", When does he say that?

To Han Solo, on the skiff, just before they are gonna be executed via Sarlacc.

4 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Keep in mind that some of the flavor text in the Decipher card game was often vague.

"I've taken care of everything", When does he say that?

Keyword: everything

Because lightsabers destroy everything.

4 minutes ago, RufusDaMan said:

Keyword: everything

Because lightsabers destroy everything.

Um,

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Lightsaber-resistant_materials

Just now, Darth Meanie said:

Um,

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Lightsaber-resistant_materials

Like I don't know... grump. T'was a joke

14 minutes ago, RufusDaMan said:

Like I don't know... grump. T'was a joke

They don't call him Meanie for nothing!

23 minutes ago, RufusDaMan said:

Like I don't know... grump. T'was a joke

Like, I don't know that you do know, don't ya know.

Maybe you're one of those players in 3 who's only here for amazing game design, incredible game balance, and emotionally cathartic complaining.

Just now, Darth Meanie said:

Like, I don't know that you do know, don't ya know.

Maybe you're one of those players in 3 who's only here for amazing game design, incredible game balance, and emotionally cathartic complaining.

Cathartic complaining maybe but also an avid star wars fan

7 hours ago, jmswood said:

You’re entitled to that opinion; could you at least explain it?

How about with the actual definition of "flavor text": "Flavor text is any text in a game that is completely unrelated to actual rules or gameplay, and is included merely for effect."

10 hours ago, ObiWonka said:

How about with the actual definition of "flavor text": "Flavor text is any text in a game that is completely unrelated to actual rules or gameplay, and is included merely for effect."

Where did you get that definition? It isn’t wrong the most literal sense of what usually happens in game design, but it is limiting.

A good game design starts with good rules. Good components of a game are designed to either capitalize on the rules, or break the rules without breaking the entire game.

An example in X-wing: the Perform Action step allows 1 action. Darth Vader breaks the the rule, but the game is still intact.

In a broader sense, there are rules for making a game. Games can break those rules and still be successful. A game with a setting can break the boundary between flavor and mechanics. You’re opposed to that, which is fine. It just isn’t as absolute as you’re projecting.

The moment it becomes functional within the rules of the game, it is no longer "flavor text", simple as that.

It would be just as easy and in fact simpler for both design and play to utilize a keyword that is not flavor text. There was absolutely nothing stopping them from putting the keyword "leader" somewhere else on Wedge's card. All they accomplished by making "flavor text" accessible by the game rules was making it harder to write flavor text and design keywords . In other words, if they wanted to write flavor text for a character who was a "leader" of something but didn't want to give that character access to leader mechanics, they have to rewrite the flavor text. In choosing another word, they might also subtly change the image of the character evoked by the flavor text (i.e. the entire purpose of actual flavor text ). Additionally, let's say they called this character a commander instead. In the future they want to design a commander keyword, but now they have to design around the not-a-leader character because that character is a commander-instead-of-a-leader.

Therefore, bad design.

Any keywords that affect a card need to be explicitly called out in their own section. Flavor text is fluff and should never matter (exception: silver-border).

4 hours ago, ObiWonka said:

The moment it becomes functional within the rules of the game, it is no longer "flavor text", simple as that.

It would be just as easy and in fact simpler for both design and play to utilize a keyword that is not flavor text. There was absolutely nothing stopping them from putting the keyword "leader" somewhere else on Wedge's card. All they accomplished by making "flavor text" accessible by the game rules was making it harder to write flavor text and design keywords . In other words, if they wanted to write flavor text for a character who was a "leader" of something but didn't want to give that character access to leader mechanics, they have to rewrite the flavor text. In choosing another word, they might also subtly change the image of the character evoked by the flavor text (i.e. the entire purpose of actual flavor text ). Additionally, let's say they called this character a commander instead. In the future they want to design a commander keyword, but now they have to design around the not-a-leader character because that character is a commander-instead-of-a-leader.

Therefore, bad design.

Everything you said is pretty much refuted by the setup of the Decipher CCG cards and the design of that game. Flavor text (which is now often the source of character names used in this very game) coexisted with keywords that were important for the card's function in the game. And over 10+ expansions, these keywords were kept clear, concise, and part of the card's role in the game.

It's only bad design if the designers don't keep a clear vision of what the keywords are or begin to blur their meanings.

5 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Flavor text (which is now often the source of character names used in this very game) coexisted with keywords that were important for the card's function in the game.

I agree with @ObiWonka - functional "flavor text" is not flavor text anymore. Sure the designers might still call it that, but that doesn't mean they are right...

It gets confusing when we use established words with new, opposite meanings - that literally makes me lose my hair

18 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

It's only bad design if the designers don't keep a clear vision of what the keywords are or begin to blur their meanings.

Ok, so explain to me how putting keywords in supposed "flavor text" instead of simply having the keyword as part of the actual game text of the card is somehow an improvement on, you know, not doing that.

1 hour ago, ObiWonka said:

Ok, so explain to me how putting keywords in supposed "flavor text" instead of simply having the keyword as part of the actual game text of the card is somehow an improvement on, you know, not doing that.

You’re right that once flavor text has a function, it is not technically flavor text anymore. I can live with ignoring that technicality.

Keeping flavor and function separate is simple and organized. Those are really good advantages in game design.

Here is the human reality driving this subject: flavor matters when a game exists within a beloved fandom. Many fans are willing to sacrifice a little simplicity and organization to give source material more impact on gameplay. Integrating flavor and function improves the illusion that the game is happening within the imagined setting.

2 hours ago, ObiWonka said:

Ok, so explain to me how putting keywords in supposed "flavor text" instead of simply having the keyword as part of the actual game text of the card is somehow an improvement on, you know, not doing that.

1 word:

Aesthetics.

It's the same reason there is completely irrelevant art on each card.

And the reason FFG can offer alt-art cards a prizes when people already own the functionally-identical card at home.