20 minutes ago, Punning Pundit said:

Ten or Farlander with this + intensity would be quite the thing. I'd want to play test the crud outta that combo (especially with Linked Battery!) to make sure that it isn't brokenly good.

On the other wrist, those pilots need about a 4 point boost just to reach par, so it would take quite a bit for them to get all the way to "broken".

I've considered making it any action, not just barrel roll actions, to make it more appealing to Nera Dantles. That would make it more powerful, and in a way that makes Intensity almst redundant, making VI Keyan and VI Numb really good.

It's probably too much, though, which is why I just said barrel roll actions.

On 11/4/2017 at 2:55 AM, UnitOmega said:

Reinforce is problematic on ships without Aux arcs.

Though I've been saying for it feels like forever Rebel -wing ships need to be able to reinforce "Fore" only somehow. "Deflectors Double Front" and all that.

Assign a face up reinforce token

Done and done

1 hour ago, Punning Pundit said:

Ten or Farlander with this + intensity would be quite the thing. I'd want to play test the crud outta that combo (especially with Linked Battery!) to make sure that it isn't brokenly good.

On the other wrist, those pilots need about a 4 point boost just to reach par, so it would take quite a bit for them to get all the way to "broken".

Yeah, it's one of those things where the higher level pilots definitely enjoy a disproportionate advantage... But for once we're looking at a ship where that is entirely justifiable and reasonable.

Generics certainly wouldn't mind either, and I love that it synergy's so well with AdvS.

B-Wing fix? Wasn't that the B-Wing E/2?

13 minutes ago, Celestial Lizards said:

B-Wing fix? Wasn't that the B-Wing E/2?

Unfortunately, they made what would currently be considered a Title a Modification. . .which means the E2 then can't take one.

If the E2 got a Mod and a Crew, then the ship might do pretty well.

It's the same problem the T-65 has with IA: it uses a very valuable Modification slot, so that both ships can't take advantage of Chips for secondary weapons or a repositioning option like Vectored Thrusters.

Why IA isn't an Astromech is beyond me, just like E2 not being a Title.

Just now, Darth Meanie said:

Unfortunately, they made what would currently be considered a Title a Modification. . .which means the E2 then can't take one.

If the E2 got a Mod and a Crew, then the ship might do pretty well.

It makes sense lore-wise as a mod. They expanded the cockpit to give the pilot a second crew to focus on the guns. That takes an extensive mod of the cockpit and systems.

1 minute ago, Celestial Lizards said:

It makes sense lore-wise as a mod. They expanded the cockpit to give the pilot a second crew to focus on the guns. That takes an extensive mod of the cockpit and systems.

OMG, I can't believe I am going to say this, but gameplay > fluff, so Titles are versions/classes of a ship, and Mods are tweaks to individual ships. It's just the way the game is laid out, design-wise (at this point).

Actually, that's a really good point. Good job on changing my mind!

35 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

Unfortunately, they made what would currently be considered a Title a Modification. . .which means the E2 then can't take one.

If the E2 got a Mod and a Crew, then the ship might do pretty well.

It's the same problem the T-65 has with IA: it uses a very valuable Modification slot, so that both ships can't take advantage of Chips for secondary weapons or a repositioning option like Vectored Thrusters.

Why IA isn't an Astromech is beyond me, just like E2 not being a Title.

Someone needs to explain to me the power that gets unlocked by making the E2 card a title. Currently, it costs a point to add a crew slot. What combinations are available to the B-Wing if it can take a crew + a mod? Does anyone think that putting Nien Nunb + Guidance Chimp on Nera is worth 33 or 34 points?

Honestly, for as long as the crew slot is useless on a B-Wing, the crew slot + mod slot isn't going to be magically better. The whole argument seems weird to me.

As for the T-65? Vectored Thrusters is _made_ for it. And so that's why I'd like IA to let me put a second mod on it.

22 minutes ago, Punning Pundit said:

Someone needs to explain to me the power that gets unlocked by making the E2 card a title. Currently, it costs a point to add a crew slot. What combinations are available to the B-Wing if it can take a crew + a mod? Does anyone think that putting Nien Nunb + Guidance Chimp on Nera is worth 33 or 34 points?

Honestly, for as long as the crew slot is useless on a B-Wing, the crew slot + mod slot isn't going to be magically better. The whole argument seems weird to me.

As for the T-65? Vectored Thrusters is _made_ for it. And so that's why I'd like IA to let me put a second mod on it.

Dagger Squadron Pilot (32) B-Wing (24), Advanced Proton Torpedoes (6), B-Wing/E2 (1), Wookiee Commandos (1) + GC

Wookiee Commandos lets you have a pseudo TL, so you can still barrel roll. Then you get chips. I added APT cuz that gives you lots of eyeballs to reroll, but other torps would work too.

It's not magic, but it frees up options. And since it's not magic, why not make E2 consistent with the rest of the game??

Final disclaimer: I play Imps, so this is not my realm of expertise. Given that my brother insists on playing B-Wings as his favorite, I'm not all broken up that they are not XWM 2.0 compatible

I note in passing that the psuedo-title up above would pair really well with Inspiring Recruit.

I'm actually OK with the /E2 being a modification, idly - though the price of a point is a bit rough at this stage in the game design, the thought you get to be a munitions carrier or a repositioner or a crewed brawler is not, inherently, an unreasonable thing to ask people to pick.

Yeah, you could combo up some crazy stuff to let folks get everything at once, but that's fix-hunting, not inherent design. I'd rather the fix just be a fix.

They are pretty **** close,

The bulls eye firing arc puts it over the top that is for sure but not by a huge margin.

Going to go on the record saying the reload action is a garbage action (way to crushingly inefficient), its nice to have i guess but i would never spend points to have it on a ship that is for sure. Loose an action and a turn of firing to get a missile back is just not good. you could argue that if your ship is out of combat then its good, but you probably would prefer the target lock action and you would prefer even more to have your ship still shooting not taking a turn to rest. Do you think corran horn's ability would be any good if it was "Increase your primary attack value by 1 for this round then receive a weapons disabled token"? no it would be trash and that is close to what reload is (its even worse then that because you don't get an another action on your no shoot turn).

Planning to be able to reload is like planning to fail "i plan to have my ship so out of position that i can take a turn not shooting and doing a useless action for the turn"

3 hours ago, Reiver said:

I note in passing that the psuedo-title up above would pair really well with Inspiring Recruit.

It'd let you clear more stress than usual, but you still have to clear stress. (assuming you're talking about the gyro and not some other fix suggested.)

Gotta agree with Icelom

reload is not a plus at all. You have to spend points to make it not utterly useless just by having ordnance to reload . Even then, it's stupidly slow costing your action and attack

while the B-wing 3.0 is almost certainly just going to be a harpoon missile caddie, I'd have to recommend 100% of the time sticking extra munitions on them because you are simply not going to get many opportunities to reload (assuming you get any at all)

The B-wing should have an offensive bonus. It's supposed to be this beast of a ship. Let it roll an additional dice at range 1, and its suddenly much more scarier. 2 K-s and 5 dice at range one is a scary ship.

3 minutes ago, RufusDaMan said:

The B-wing should have an offensive bonus. It's supposed to be this beast of a ship. Let it roll an additional dice at range 1, and its suddenly much more scarier. 2 K-s and 5 dice at range one is a scary ship.

https://imgur.com/iwcwr6G

Ion cannons are free, Plasma torpedos cannot get guidance chips, but are free, mangler costs 1 point too ignore long range and add a crit, HLC is 4 points for an extra attack die.

Linked battery, extra munitions, and seismic torpedos are all still 2 points, because they arnt secondary weapons. Snap shot, however, is.

Well, the B-Wing is a beast against capital ships and other relatively stationary targets. Ions and torps for shields, Autoblasters to engage ground targets, etc. It's a debatable dogfighter, though supposed to have good straight-line speed and unusual maneuverability, and shielding enough to keep it safe to the target.

That sounds kind of like the B-Wing now, only it's not an ideal ordnance truck, and you don't often see those fat targets it has (no offense to epic players, but your variant of the game is more expensive and time consuming). The Integrated Weapons Platform is a fairly good step in what would help it be more like that and still more useful, alternatively you might also let it TIE/D or Double Edge, but basically with either secondary weapon. Imagine if getting a TL for torps was as easy as making a primary attack which resolves first for FCS? It could also possibly benefit from the Bullseye Arc (it has BR after all) or some kind of effect which benefits it targeting lower agility ships (As if you wanted me to put a bet on Interceptors vs B-Wings, my money is on squints. In the X-Wing novels TIE fighters and interceptors could avoid a torpedo with sufficient warning and maneuvering room). But it can bring more gun than Bombers, pirate Y-Wings and other fat-assed gunships and upgunned freighters.

1 hour ago, Rakaydos said:

It'd let you clear more stress than usual, but you still have to clear stress. (assuming you're talking about the gyro and not some other fix suggested.)

I was, and yes - but that's also the point. You can pull off two red manouvers in a row, then barrel roll into a green and come out completely clear of stress. That's potent in itself.

1 hour ago, ficklegreendice said:

Gotta agree with Icelom

reload is not a plus at all. You have to spend points to make it not utterly useless just by having ordnance to reload . Even then, it's stupidly slow costing your action and attack

while the B-wing 3.0 is almost certainly just going to be a harpoon missile caddie, I'd have to recommend 100% of the time sticking extra munitions on them because you are simply not going to get many opportunities to reload (assuming you get any at all)

Reload isn't bad for the cheaper munitions - Flechette Torpedoes come to mind - when you're not getting much discount with EM and after the opening shot it's just a "Well, I can get another one back if I find myself without a shot later" deal.

You can't rely on it to be your primary attack mechanic, but it makes the cheaper weapons attractive knowing that you can get another shot later, if you want it. (And Nera Dantels with FCS, Flechette Torpedoes, and Reload would find it hilarious .)

48 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

It's a debatable dogfighter

That sounds kind of like the B-Wing now, only it's not an ideal ordnance truck, and you don't often see those fat targets it has (no offense to epic players, but your variant of the game is more expensive and time consuming).

Well, the first issue is about game format, since the b-wing should not be a great dogfighter, but 100/6 forces that role onto every dang chassis.

And as far as Epic goes, I'll agree it's more $, but the point of this hobby is to kill time, n'est-ce pas?

The B can't be in that bad a spot. My bro uses them all the time and I still dread seeing a squad of 5 to 6 of them parked across from me.

Very few ships in the game are actually as bad as people think they are, just some are not cut out for the specific rigors of tournament play, or they just show their design limitations when played very strongly and not in a balanced "So this is good at A and B, but thus not good at C, and I can configure it to be good at D at the cost of some other things" but more in the "Okay, so this was planned to be good at A and B, but clearly someone was drunk when they designed this so it's only okay at A and not actually good at B, still terrible at C, and I could kind of pay to make it good at D but it's not worth it because D isn't even a smart thing to be good at".

Bs are pretty efficient, their Aces are over-inflated which is sad, and they no longer have the sweet spot in upgrade coordination+basic features people prefer in the game or otherwise suffer from ungainly limitations people don't always enjoy (can't K-turn past a large base, the aforementioned issue of not being able to say, E2 and Chips or other mods). People are probably just miffed with the Kimogila getting new toys (Reload and Bullseye) and it's probably closer to expected pricing which means it costs now as much as a B-wing then, but maybe the B-Wing, y'know, could have cost less? Plus when it came out the B-Wing was the first rebel ship with Barrel Roll and one of the first two ships with the brand new System slot.

41 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

Very few ships in the game are actually as bad as people think they are, just some are not cut out for the specific rigors of tournament play,

People are probably just miffed with the Kimogila getting new toys (Reload and Bullseye) and it's probably closer to expected pricing which means it costs now as much as a B-wing then, but maybe the B-Wing, y'know, could have cost less? Plus when it came out the B-Wing was the first rebel ship with Barrel Roll and one of the first two ships with the brand new System slot.

The first part needs to stop being a thing; there is more to this game than tournament level play, and the constant focus on "all ships must be equal at tourney" is equal parts silly, distracting, and impossible.

The second part is just the B being a victim of it's own success: being iconic, it needs to be developed first; being developed first means it gets outdated first.

1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:

The first part needs to stop being a thing; there is more to this game than tournament level play, and the constant focus on "all ships must be equal at tourney" is equal parts silly, distracting, and impossible.

The second part is just the B being a victim of it's own success: being iconic, it needs to be developed first; being developed first means it gets outdated first.

2nd edition with card rotations. Give B-wings new actions and new costings. Give B-wing pilots new abilities. That way older ships will have more than one update in the games entire life cycle.

On 2017-11-04 at 4:59 PM, FlyingAnchors said:

I think a vasaki like title for secondary weapons where the costs is reduced by 2 or 3 for each secondary weapon would be a big benefit instead.

Always wondered if the B-wing from the beginning should not have been a very low primary attack value, but then having 2 cannon slots and a hefty discount on cannons.

Then, as @Icelom and @ficklegreendice I am not that convinced about reload being good. Admittedly I did not test Quinn Jast vigorously, but my feeling was that disengaging to reload costs you too much in time and missed firing.

8 hours ago, Darth Meanie said:

The second part is just the B being a victim of it's own success: being iconic, it needs to be developed first; being developed first means it gets outdated first.

Indeed. This is a problem with a lot of iconic ships - and why in the Star Wars LCG I think we're on about the sixth version of Luke Skywalker.

4 hours ago, Managarmr said:

Then, as @Icelom and @ficklegreendice I am not that convinced about reload being good. Admittedly I did not test Quinn Jast vigorously, but my feeling was that disengaging to reload costs you too much in time and missed firing.

Definitely. OS-1 Gunboats are an exception because they can potentially reload and fire in the same turn, but missing a turn of shooting to rearm your missiles is a big deal. I'm far more bothered about the Killergorilla being able to pack Long Range Scanners and realistically get a torp shot on a higher PS opponent than I am by its ability to reload expended torpedoes if it gets a chance to do so .

8 hours ago, Managarmr said:

Always wondered if the B-wing from the beginning should not have been a very low primary attack value, but then having 2 cannon slots and a hefty discount on cannons.

Then, as @Icelom and @ficklegreendice I am not that convinced about reload being good. Admittedly I did not test Quinn Jast vigorously, but my feeling was that disengaging to reload costs you too much in time and missed firing.

Maybe the XG-1 title is a test for a future b-wing title? Although I’d like a general use title for ordnance or cannons, since the B-wing is designed to tackle capital ships.