Well, actually, now that I double check - can't know for sure if it ran off one in SWG but on Wookieepedia it's sourced as having one since the Rebellion Era Campaign guide back in SAGA. That included a lot of SWG era ships and would have been in the time period while it was still up and running.

Now, in F&D (no, don't ask me why giant hutt fighters are in the jedi book-line), the Kimogila does not have an astromech slot. However, this isn't the first time FFG has put effectively "optional" features on a ship in the minis game which aren't in say, their RPG appearance, for more distinct play (see: The TIE/AG, which may or may not have shields or missiles standard depending on which source you read) and you could plug an Astro-socket into the Kimogila.

As it happens, I've written about Fixing the B-Wing:

16 hours ago, Marinealver said:

If anything Kiglomira or whatever you want to call it (I'll go with "Killroy") is just to correct the mistake that was this ship.

...you mean the ship that just made the Top 8 at a Nationals?

4 hours ago, Marinealver said:

There is still the option of making a B-wing prototype. Take the B-wing, remove 1 shield and 1 hull, replace <system> for <crew> slot, Drop 2 points replace 2K with a 3 K (ore even a pair of speed 2 S-loops) . And don't forget to include a 1 time use (discard to use) unique B-wing prototype only <cannon> upgrade seen below.

B-wing fixed and by fixed I mean replaced.

B wing Bullseye arc only attack with 4 red die?

4 hours ago, UnitOmega said:

Well, actually, now that I double check - can't know for sure if it ran off one in SWG but on Wookieepedia it's sourced as having one since the Rebellion Era Campaign guide back in SAGA. That included a lot of SWG era ships and would have been in the time period while it was still up and running.

Now, in F&D (no, don't ask me why giant hutt fighters are in the jedi book-line), the Kimogila does not have an astromech slot. However, this isn't the first time FFG has put effectively "optional" features on a ship in the minis game which aren't in say, their RPG appearance, for more distinct play (see: The TIE/AG, which may or may not have shields or missiles standard depending on which source you read) and you could plug an Astro-socket into the Kimogila.

Suppose. It's still strange to me- I recall Astromechs being a decidedly rebel thing, but Imperial and Privateer pilots could get a droid brain to put in their ship, which was pretty cool.

Now, I can see where an Astromech slot might be... but there's an issue with that.

That spot up top is later, where the M22-T Krayt got its turret. Now that does imply some distinct modularity in that section, as well as a second crewmember, but the neck is at least twice as long as well, so it's clearly not as easy as a plug-and-play turret/modularity thing.

It's just odd to me that it gets an astro slot.

35 minutes ago, rafcpl6868 said:

B wing Bullseye arc only attack with 4 red die?

If hit deal face down damage cards to the ship equal to its hull value, then cancel all dice results.

16 hours ago, Punning Pundit said:

Ultimately, at the price you're paying for an ace B-Wing, they don't last long enough. So they can either be made cheaper, or given something that beefs up their survivability.

Honestly, if they want to errata an extra hull onto the E2 mod, that might go a fair way to "fixing" it...

Reinforce Action, problem solved imho.

B-wings need something similar to Vaksai or TIE X1 I think. We don't want to make the chassis cheaper really. Five B-wings might be a bit much but upgrades could be cheaper.

Something that let's them treat red moves as k-turns would be cool. Give them 4Ks and some crazy s-loops.

12 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

Reinforce Action, problem solved imho.

"At the start of combat, if you have at least 2 shield tokens, assign 1 fore reinforce token and 1 aft reinforce to your ship."

19 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

"At the start of combat, if you have at least 2 shield tokens, assign 1 fore reinforce token and 1 aft reinforce to your ship."

I dare you to play test this
Agility 1 with reinforced is equal like having unlimited focus tokens and agility two. Basically they become all more tanky as Poe or Luke.

1 minute ago, SEApocalypse said:

I dare you to play test this
Agility 1 with reinforced is equal like having unlimited focus tokens and agility two. Basically they become all more tanky as Poe or Luke.

Yeah. I mean. I can see (say) a free reinforce token. But 2 free reinforce tokens?! Nope.

I can see reinforce with a trigger (my own favorite being doing damage), and reinforce- but you have to lower your agility by 1. But a 360 reinforce that for the first 3 HP? That would be quite a bit.

1 hour ago, Captain Lackwit said:

Now, I can see where an Astromech slot might be.

Well, the Kimo doesn't have a turret, and it has two hardpoints in F&D for customization (considering it also has the heavy lasers, missiles and torpedoes already), nor does the socket necessarily have to be external (and keep in mind, some canonical socket designs are really dumb - see N-1). The Kimogila also has a ship silhouette of 4, so it's a big damned ship to be called a "Heavy Fighter", the RPG's equivalent of being Large sized (not that the RPG writers are the best about that. By their rules the VCX would be a Huge ship).

Since salvaged astros are a thing, and there's prior evidence of them having the socket (In RPG material released around the time people would know what the M12 even was) they probably included it to make it more distinct, especially if they knew that it was possible Scum would effectively lose a ship with that slot. I'm okay with them taking small liberties to make ships more distinct so long as it's not completely out of the blue. It's not even like it was their idea first, unlike say, StarViper M-2.

40 minutes ago, UnitOmega said:

Well, the Kimo doesn't have a turret, and it has two hardpoints in F&D for customization (considering it also has the heavy lasers, missiles and torpedoes already), nor does the socket necessarily have to be external (and keep in mind, some canonical socket designs are really dumb - see N-1). The Kimogila also has a ship silhouette of 4, so it's a big damned ship to be called a "Heavy Fighter", the RPG's equivalent of being Large sized (not that the RPG writers are the best about that. By their rules the VCX would be a Huge ship).

Since salvaged astros are a thing, and there's prior evidence of them having the socket (In RPG material released around the time people would know what the M12 even was) they probably included it to make it more distinct, especially if they knew that it was possible Scum would effectively lose a ship with that slot. I'm okay with them taking small liberties to make ships more distinct so long as it's not completely out of the blue. It's not even like it was their idea first, unlike say, StarViper M-2.

Oh yeah, I mean, I don't have a HUGE issue with it... But I just- I think it's weird, as somebody familiar with the ship. Now, that said...

The privateer ships were very personal things. Every major ship had like four-to-six different variants. More wings, less wings, canards, no canards, more struts, forward cockpit, central cockpit, it's crazy. ****, we technically didn't even get the correct Kihraxz.

People will tell you all day, up right left and down, that that is a Vaksai, but it's not. The Vaksai was just a really, really, really good Kihraxz that you could get once Rage of The Wookiees came out. (Other vessels, though not at all acquired the same way, were the Empire's ETA-2, The Rebellion's ARC-170, and the Independent, flexible-in-allegiance Belbullab-22. Two of which were functionally the same ship.)

It's so weird to see Star Wars Galaxies content get a nod, but only a halfway correctly done nod. I mean, yes, the Kihraxz came in many different models for aethetic purposes, and believe you me I'm interested to see how they'd do the Ixiyen or the Rihkxyrk. Especially considering the Ixy was supposed to be an X-Wing analogue, not the Kihraxz. The Kihraxz was usually called "The Poor Man's A-Wing".

I dunno. I guess I'm just trying to say that they can definitely get away with an Astromech slot, but conversely, it's really weird to me. Not impossible, but it's like knowing a guy named Todd, but one day he tells you that it's only one D, and you know that's not the case.

I can think of one of these kinds of ships I really, really want to see in XWMG, though... But it probably won't ever happen.

20 hours ago, Rakaydos said:

My own approach to fixing the Bwing is to give aces more ways to USE their pilot skill reactively, making the expensive aces worth their points as arcdodgers.

https://imgur.com/WUGm1jR

Basically Primed Thrusters+Hera crew, as long as you keep your stresscount managable. Ibstan thinks it's good, Keyan thinks it's great, Nera wouldnt mind PTL, and Ten Numb embraces VI for Ps10 arcdodging. Also works well with other pilots who flew bwing in the lore: Hera and Braylen Stram.

You know, that card looks really rather lovely. I would suggest changing 'normally' for, hm, nicking the Primed Thrusters wording:

"Stress tokens do not prevent you from performing red maneuvers or [barrel roll] actions unless you have more than 2 stress tokens."

Same effect, but a little more explicit. And even at 0 points, I can't imagine it would break anything either - instead, it becomes the B-wings cute gimmick. And what a gimmick it is.

14 hours ago, FTS Gecko said:

...you mean the ship that just made the Top 8 at a Nationals?

What was the list? I've always had a soft spot for G1As, and 4LOM in particular. And a ship that's a point or two overpriced is not nessisarily doomed, its aces even less so... but it's still a rough place to be.

I don't think the Kimogila necessarily indicates a B-wing fix, but I did immediately notice the similarities, and equally, the disparity between the two. The B-wing is my favourite fighter in the SWverse, so I've had many an idea to bring them back into foray over the last year or 2. I have also adopted the wookiee gunships into my competitive roster and relish the reinforce action over almost every other. A lot of my ideas are in-line with some of the ones already suggested in this thread.

On 11/4/2017 at 5:15 PM, Punning Pundit said:

Ultimately, at the price you're paying for an ace B-Wing, they don't last long enough. So they can either be made cheaper, or given something that beefs up their survivability.

Honestly, if they want to errata an extra hull onto the E2 mod, that might go a fair way to "fixing" it...

I like. 1 Hull to E2 would be nice as it would bring them up to the 9HP of the ARC-170 and gunship, and would also provide somewhat of a consolation to not being able to use other modification upgrades.

On 11/4/2017 at 5:25 PM, UnitOmega said:

Reinforce is problematic on ships without Aux arcs.

Though I've been saying for it feels like forever Rebel -wing ships need to be able to reinforce "Fore" only somehow. "Deflectors Double Front" and all that.

I agree, but even with an auxiliary arc, the fact that the B-wing can K-turn, let alone at speed 2, would make a standard reinforce extremely strong on this chassis. The major limiting factor of the gunship is it can't turn around easily, meaning if the B-wing did have a reinforce action, the coin would flip again to "why would a take a gunship when I can take a B-wing".

On 11/4/2017 at 10:20 PM, Punning Pundit said:

I think I'd give it the Tech slot instead of the crew slot. And give it a discount of up to 3 points on any equipment, rather than making it a negative points card. But I like where you're coming from...

I agree. I think a Vaksai style card would be most useful for B-wings as the Blue squadrons are cheap enough naked, however its the upgrades needed (especially on Aces) that blow out the B-wings cost/reward ratio.

Here are some of my ideas, some of them have already been suggested in a round about way, and obviously it would be impractical to implement all of them, but 1 or 2 tweaks along these lines along with the soon to be released linked battery would help the poor B-wing out quite a bit in my opinion.

Errata:

B-wing/E2 - Your upgrade bar gains the Crew upgrade icon.

You may equip 1 additional Modification upgrade that costs 1 or fewer squad points.

(Really just to gain access to guidance chips and munitions failsafe)

New Upgrades:

Modification: Gyroscopic Controls - (2pts) - You may perform the barrel roll action whilst stressed. If you are not stressed, you may perform the barrel roll action with the 2 straight template instead of the 1 straight template.

(Since the B-wings can basically just barrel roll constantly [and should, at all times ] I think this would help with their manoeuvrability issues without changing their jouster archtype. 2pts to balance against my errata'd E2.)

Modification: Thrust Stabilizers (1pt) - You may treat all bank maneuvers (left or right) as green maneuvers.

(Twin Ion engines for B-wings. An alternative to help with manoeuvrability)

System: Forward Deflectors (1pt) - B-wing only. When defending, if the attacker is in your primary firing arc, you may roll 1 additional defence die.

(A cross between lightweight frame and a reinforce seems the most balanced for the B-wings. Its not as reliable as a reinforce, and only triggers in arc, but doesn't take an action and keeps to the jouster archetype)

Cannon: Composite Beam Laser (3pts) - 3 attack range 2-3. Attack [Target Lock] - Attack 1 ship. The defender cannot spend focus or evade tokens during this attack.

(I've always thought this weapon should have the bullseye firing arc mechanics, but I thought 3 attack would be fair as 4 attack would probably be OP and negate the Heavy Laser Cannon. I'm not sure on the point cost, but I thought a lower cost with the restriction of needing a target lock would balance it against the likes of HLC and Mangler)

Title: B-wing mk.II (0pts) - B-wing only. The squad point cost of each of your equipped [cannon], [torpedo] and modification upgrades is reduced by 1 (to a minimum of 0).

(As I said before, the cost of the needed upgrades to make B-wings worth while, blows out their value. Maybe this should extend to all upgrades like Vaksai? I'm not sure.)

On November 3, 2017 at 11:21 PM, NakedDex said:

I mean, the Kimogila is a smidge better, but without seeing the dial it's hard to truly compare. The only things we know about the Kimogila dial so far is that it has a red 4k, and red 1/2 turns. It's not supposed to be a particularly maneuverable ship (despite it, oddly, having barrel roll...). Meanwhile, the B-wing arguably still has one of the best knife-fighter dials in the game (that 2k is still godly). The problem is more that knife-fighters just aren't needed, so one of their chief tricks is now redundant. I'd also trade both the illicit and salvaged astromech slot for a system and cannon slot any day, so I'd say their upgrade bar is fairly on par, honestly.

Do we know for sure it has 1 red turns? I would bet money that FFG article writers consider banks turns.

On 11/3/2017 at 8:09 PM, Reiver said:

Just compare these two:

Better action bar (Reload!), similar upgrade bar (Systems is probably better than Illicit/Salvagemech, but the combo is pretty cool and torp+missiles beats double-torp for the LRS access), an extra point of PS... and the same overall HP, attack, and durability.

The Cartel Brute then also boasts the Bullseye mechanic, which is highly situational, but still definitely the kind of thing that would usually have been worth a point or two as a cannon effect.

For the same price.

Either the Cartel Brute has a truly lousy dial, or the devs have admitted by inference that the B-wing (And hopefully, G1A as well!) is due a wee boost.

I like your intent OP, but I wish you'd really think about your words a bit. Cuz it'd be a stronger argument.

1. The devs have admitted nothing. The word "admit" means to say and realize. They don't really seem to realize how much they power creep the game, this is another example of scum power creep AGAIN. When it happens over and over, they don't admit anything. Second, they haven't said anything of the sort.

2. It could also be said that its not the B-wing and G1A that need a boost. Its that constant power creep and medium ships and scum ships are generally getting far too much leeway in power.

3. This assumes that the devs even care to keep the early parts of the game relevant. In Armada, that is the case. They do a good job helping older ships. This game... they try to, but their mathematics is extremely poor.

3 hours ago, Blail Blerg said:

I like your intent OP, but I wish you'd really think about your words a bit. Cuz it'd be a stronger argument.

1. The devs have admitted nothing. The word "admit" means to say and realize. They don't really seem to realize how much they power creep the game, this is another example of scum power creep AGAIN. When it happens over and over, they don't admit anything. Second, they haven't said anything of the sort.

2. It could also be said that its not the B-wing and G1A that need a boost. Its that constant power creep and medium ships and scum ships are generally getting far too much leeway in power.

3. This assumes that the devs even care to keep the early parts of the game relevant. In Armada, that is the case. They do a good job helping older ships. This game... they try to, but their mathematics is extremely poor.

I specified 'by inference'. And TBH, the B-wing was never bad, but it's been 'behind', just a little, since the Z-95 showed up. That's long enough to justify a boost, especially in a balance point where StarVipers are 22pts, and 20pt Kithraxz are getting inherent discounts. Yeah, it's a bit power-creep-y, but at the same time it could well be argued that the X-wing was underpowered since wave one , so where one measures power creep is... well, it's a debate, let's just put it like that.

I do think they'd like to keep the early stuff relevant. They're just not very good at it. This is distinct from not caring! So we'll just have to see.

On 11/4/2017 at 3:32 PM, rafcpl6868 said:

B wing Bullseye arc only attack with 4 red die?

2 red dice. If this attack hits deal 5 faceup damage cards to the defender.

They had a great opportunity to give the B-Wing a buff, unfortunately they made Linked Battery cost two points instead of zero.

1 minute ago, HolySorcerer said:

They had a great opportunity to give the B-Wing a buff, unfortunately they made Linked Battery cost two points instead of zero.

They wanted to avoid it being auto-take on the XG1.

9 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

They wanted to avoid it being auto-take on the XG1.

It's not like it being an auto include on the XG1 would have broken anything. You're either using it to mod a 2 point cannon and doing at most one damage, I would use it for free here, but not for two points; or you're using it to mod a real cannon like HLC or Mangler, in which case you're giving up the ability to fire after SLAMing by not taking a control cannon. Sorry, I'm not seeing either of these uses being too abusive, certainly not in comparison to scum and rebel shenanigans.

15 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

They wanted to avoid it being auto-take on the XG1.

It wouldn't be an auto-take on the XG1. There is still a lot of incentive to take a damage dealing gun and one that can SLAM-fire.

On 11/5/2017 at 4:32 AM, Reiver said:

You know, that card looks really rather lovely. I would suggest changing 'normally' for, hm, nicking the Primed Thrusters wording:

"Stress tokens do not prevent you from performing red maneuvers or [barrel roll] actions unless you have more than 2 stress tokens."

Same effect, but a little more explicit. And even at 0 points, I can't imagine it would break anything either - instead, it becomes the B-wings cute gimmick. And what a gimmick it is.

Ten or Farlander with this + intensity would be quite the thing. I'd want to play test the crud outta that combo (especially with Linked Battery!) to make sure that it isn't brokenly good.

On the other wrist, those pilots need about a 4 point boost just to reach par, so it would take quite a bit for them to get all the way to "broken".