Sorry I keep making threads, but I have to get this out.

With the emphasis on keeping ships in arc in the Gila Monster (and GUNBOAT, but I can never say bad things about it), could we see an arc dodger resurgence, particularly with the TIE Silencer on the way?

5 minutes ago, Celestial Lizards said:

Sorry I keep making threads, but I have to get this out.

With the emphasis on keeping ships in arc in the Gila Monster (and GUNBOAT, but I can never say bad things about it), could we see an arc dodger resurgence, particularly with the TIE Silencer on the way?

I'm not sure most arc-dodgers will want to use their abilities against the Bullseye arc, unless they're also getting out of the firing arc all together.

If they stay in the arc, then they can't spend their focus or evade tokens against that attack.

If they try to boost or barrel roll out of the Bullseye arc, then they're not using that action to gain a Focus or Evade token. The net result is still similar, if not identical.

But what if they barrel roll and boost to get out of the arc but still shoot against the Gila?

There's no arc-dodger resurgence on the way as long as RAC+Vader+Gunner exists. Some people think -- bizarrely, but whatever -- that AdvSLAM was keeping arc-dodgers down. (Hint: It wasn't.)

Well I'm still playing LOTS OF BOMBS so... I hope so!

1 hour ago, PhantomFO said:

I'm not sure most arc-dodgers will want to use their abilities against the Bullseye arc, unless they're also getting out of the firing arc all together.

If they stay in the arc, then they can't spend their focus or evade tokens against that attack.

If they try to boost or barrel roll out of the Bullseye arc, then they're not using that action to gain a Focus or Evade token. The net result is still similar, if not identical.

This, I mean you have to be a very bad arc dodger to get caught in a bulls eye arc, in which you should not be playing arc dodgers anyways.

1 hour ago, Celestial Lizards said:

But what if they barrel roll and boost to get out of the arc but still shoot against the Gila?

Then bulls eye doesn't even matter. The thing about bulls eye is that it doesn't quite fit with X-wings flight path system. X-wing banks are strictly in increments of 45 degrees (pi/4 rads). So you end up with all these bulls eye blind spots unless you can bump yourself. If there was a way to reveal a bank and treat it as an overlap so you can do turns less than 45 degrees then the bullseye firing are would matter more.

2 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

This, I mean you have to be a very bad arc dodger to get caught in a bulls eye arc, in which you should not be playing arc dodgers anyways.

Then bulls eye doesn't even matter. The thing about bulls eye is that it doesn't quite fit with X-wings flight path system. X-wing banks are strictly in increments of 45 degrees (pi/4 rads). So you end up with all these bulls eye blind spots unless you can bump yourself. If there was a way to reveal a bank and treat it as an overlap so you can do turns less than 45 degrees then the bullseye firing are would matter more.

I think you missed my point. Most Arc-Dodgers are pretty predictable in terms of the initial move. Unless they have some sort of pre-dial shenanigans like BB-8, Advanced Sensors or Adaptive Ailerons to change their starting position, it's pretty easy to guess where those ships may end their initial movement. If you end your movement in a Bullseye arc, you have two choices:

1) Stay in the arc, take a focus and evade action. It won't help against the Bullseye, but two tokens will help against everyone else.

2) Dodge the Bullseye arc. Now you have one fewer action to left to spend on tokens. Plus, you're probably still within the normal firing arc of the ship.

16 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

I think you missed my point. Most Arc-Dodgers are pretty predictable in terms of the initial move. Unless they have some sort of pre-dial shenanigans like BB-8, Advanced Sensors or Adaptive Ailerons to change their starting position, it's pretty easy to guess where those ships may end their initial movement. If you end your movement in a Bullseye arc, you have two choices:

1) Stay in the arc, take a focus and evade action. It won't help against the Bullseye, but two tokens will help against everyone else.

2) Dodge the Bullseye arc. Now you have one fewer action to left to spend on tokens. Plus, you're probably still within the normal firing arc of the ship.

The title says you take a stress after attacking the Kimo if you were in the Bullseye arc, so at least in a vacuum if it's got that it'd likely be worthwhile to use a boost or a barrel roll to get out of the arc (not both): you'll have one token + a stress as opposed to 0 tokens + a stress.

26 minutes ago, PhantomFO said:

I think you missed my point. Most Arc-Dodgers are pretty predictable in terms of the initial move. Unless they have some sort of pre-dial shenanigans like BB-8, Advanced Sensors or Adaptive Ailerons to change their starting position, it's pretty easy to guess where those ships may end their initial movement. If you end your movement in a Bullseye arc, you have two choices:

1) Stay in the arc, take a focus and evade action. It won't help against the Bullseye, but two tokens will help against everyone else.

2) Dodge the Bullseye arc. Now you have one fewer action to left to spend on tokens. Plus, you're probably still within the normal firing arc of the ship.

No I agree, but also the bulls eye arc is just as predictable given X-wing's standard maneuver templates. So there is likely to be plenty of scenarios no matter what maneuvers you set up you won't be able to get a ship in the bulls eye arc even if you guessed the move perfectly. There has to be some sort of oblique move where you can adjust less than 45 degrees in a maneuver without having to bump.

Its not gonna bring back arc dodgers, its gonna encourage more hull = win, and other ways to damage you first, ie Expertise, Dengar crew, predator, etc.

Also, bullseye doesnt do crap for reinforce token, so auzitucks could give two ***** about bullseye.

All bullseye does is keep arc dodgers even more off the mat.

X-wing = Hull-Wing

I don’t really see the Kinogila having THAT big of a meta impact...

Traditional arc-dodgers are hurt by bombs, but really, if they ever started to slip back into the meta, there’s a bunch of hard counters: BMST, Shadowcaster, Quadjumper, Party Bus, Vader crew, HotCop/Gunner...

Really, they’re about as obsolete as generic jousters. They’ll only be useable if they’re fringe meta and people don’t bring hard counters.

I think I am seeing what the lizard is sensing. I too, sense it lol

the article talks so much about arc-dodging that it almost feels like the x-wing designers are going to start moving back in that direction. Maybe in 2 or 3 waves we will be talking all about “insert random scum ship and random Galaxies ship here”. Lol

2 hours ago, wurms said:

Its not gonna bring back arc dodgers, its gonna encourage more hull = win, and other ways to damage you first, ie Expertise, Dengar crew, predator, etc.

Also, bullseye doesnt do crap for reinforce token, so auzitucks could give two ***** about bullseye.

All bullseye does is keep arc dodgers even more off the mat.

X-wing = Hull-Wing

I love how this forum is populated by pilots of the Imperial Japanese Air Force. Seeing as how the Zero was essentially a TIE Interceptor, and zeroes got dunked on by the Allies more durable fighters.

2 hours ago, wurms said:

Its not gonna bring back arc dodgers, its gonna encourage more hull = win, and other ways to damage you first, ie Expertise, Dengar crew, predator, etc.

Also, bullseye doesnt do crap for reinforce token, so auzitucks could give two ***** about bullseye.

All bullseye does is keep arc dodgers even more off the mat.

X-wing = Hull-Wing

Small based (except scum with k4) hull wing.The titled kimogila is a large bases control nightmare, doubly so if you add asajj and some missles.

On it's own the gilla isn't going to bring arc dodgers back, it still doesn't do squat to quad tlt.

What it *may* do is give them a far better chance at being more than just a footnote in xwing history (imp ps aplha strikes excluded)

TALONBANE COBRA will single handedly bring back arc dodging with his brand new 2017 Vaksai

the new wave art deco arc dodgers only have to arc dodge sometimes, cause the rest of the time stuff be blowin from 5-dice sledgehammers

5 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

There's no arc-dodger resurgence on the way as long as RAC+Vader+Gunner exists. Some people think -- bizarrely, but whatever -- that AdvSLAM was keeping arc-dodgers down. (Hint: It wasn't.)

I don't have a strong opinion, but: you don't think Kylo has a shot at resisting, uh, Kylo? Two shields, four hull, and autothrusters is a lot more self-harm than RAC would like to inflict if he's going to be vadering. Also no guarantee of punching through the thrusters plus title, at least in one turn. And there's the chance for an exchange of crippling pilot cards. PS0 Kylo is pretty sad, but so is PS0 Cheery.

Of course, then you have to spend 58 other points so I dunno.

I hope not, they are still super strong against anything but bombs or arc dodgers that out PS them.

There's a reason some believe that high PS arc dodgers are the easiest ships to fly in the game.

8 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

There's no arc-dodger resurgence on the way as long as RAC+Vader+Gunner exists. Some people think -- bizarrely, but whatever -- that AdvSLAM was keeping arc-dodgers down. (Hint: It wasn't.)

You do realize that combo existed during the height of the Arc Dodger craze, right? And that it was actually used?

I feel pretty strongly that JM5Ks, Attani, Fenn Rau+Attani, and all combined with Torpedos that was actually keeping PTL Arc Dodgers back the most. It was just more subtle.

PTL Arc dodgers just can't compete with things that get to turn around when they want to AND maintain full actions the entire time.

The whole arc-dodging game play is built around being able to wait for the lowest risk moments to engage. Against Attani and JM5Ks, that perfect moment was very hard to find, or even impossible. And then when you found it, extra focus tokens and 2 Agility didnt even guarantee you dealt significant damage. Similar problems occur with Expertise+K4+ Torp Dengar. This sort of matchup is much harder than what was existing in the game right before the JM5K expansion came out.

Miranda and Bombs werent all that big of issue, as Miri cant Kturn/Sloop/equivalent SLAM move without giving up her shot and regen, so patient, well thought out choices with a boosting arc dodger could actually beat Miri's auto bomb drop threat.

Therefore, if less JM5Ks and Attani are played, and more weight is put on KTurns that stress/remove actions to get shots, then yes, PTL Arc Dodgers can reliably secure more wins.

14 hours ago, Nyxen said:

I love how this forum is populated by pilots of the Imperial Japanese Air Force. Seeing as how the Zero was essentially a TIE Interceptor, and zeroes got dunked on by the Allies more durable fighters.

Screw that zero comparison. Me 262 all the way. We like our nimble interceptors with tech superiority on top. And for the love of god not in the fighter-bomber variant (defender), but in the pure fighter version (Avenger)
The issue is just that the TIE Interceptor is the very next best thing to the Avenger.

10 hours ago, markcsoul said:

There's a reason some believe that high PS arc dodgers are the easiest ships to fly in the game

lol comic genius

20 hours ago, PhantomFO said:

I'm not sure most arc-dodgers will want to use their abilities against the Bullseye arc, unless they're also getting out of the firing arc all together.

If they stay in the arc, then they can't spend their focus or evade tokens against that attack.

If they try to boost or barrel roll out of the Bullseye arc, then they're not using that action to gain a Focus or Evade token. The net result is still similar, if not identical.

Intensity intensifies

20 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:

There's no arc-dodger resurgence on the way as long as RAC+Vader+Gunner exists. Some people think -- bizarrely, but whatever -- that AdvSLAM was keeping arc-dodgers down. (Hint: It wasn't.)

What do you think people played before palp?

33 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

Intensity intensifies

PTL has the same effect. Soontir doing a barrel roll out of the Bullseye and taking an evade still has focus + evade. ;-)

1 hour ago, SEApocalypse said:

PTL has the same effect. Soontir doing a barrel roll out of the Bullseye and taking an evade still has focus + evade. ;-)

I meant outside of Fel.