Alright folks. I'm seeing a lot of people talking about these two ships- they're quite similar! I thought I'd provide a space for folks to directly compare the two. I'm going to put the stats in this original post, and my own thoughts in a separate post bellow.

B-Wing stats:
Attack/Defense/Hull/Shield: 3/1/3/5
Lowest Pilot PS/Cost: 2/22
(PS 1 adjusted: 1/21)
Highest Pilot PS/Cost 8/31
(PS 1 adjusted: 1/23)
Action Bar: Focus, Target Lock, Barrel Roll
Upgrade Bar: System, Cannon, Torpedo, Torpedo (Some pilots have EPT)
Special: Can take the B-Wing/E2 modification, which adds the crew slot. Costs 1 point.

M12-L Kimogila Fighter:
Attack/Defense/Hull/Shield: 3/1/6/2
Lowest Pilot PS/Cost: 3/22
(PS 1 adjusted: 1/20)
Highest Pilot PS/Cost 8/27
(PS 1 adjusted: 1/19)
Action Bar: Focus, Target Lock, Barrel Roll, Reload
Upgrade Bar: Torpedo, Missile, Salvaged Astromech, Illicit (Some pilots have EPT)
Special: Has the bullseye arc*, can take the unique Enforcer title**

*Bullseye rules:

Quote

**Enforcer title:

Quote

The first thing I note is that the PS 1 adjusted cost of the Kilo fighter is across the board lower than the PS 1 adjusted costs of the B-Wing. Some folks view this as power creep, though I tend to disagree. As I have noted elsewhere the lowest PS B-Wings have always been a bit under 100% efficiency, requiring upgrades to make them competitive. And the highest PS B-Wings have _never_ been efficient, lacking the basic survivability to earn back their points. Moreover, there doesn’t seem to be a combination of upgrades to make up for this.

In my mind, the Kilo fighters are appropriately priced, with the B-Wings rather badly overpriced. Don’t hate the messenger.

One thing I’ll mention: I wish the lowest PS Kimogila was PS 1 (at 20 points), so that it would be more vulnerable to Predator . And a super efficient PS 1 ship would do a lot to tame the PS wars that take a bunch of interesting dynamics out of the game.

Another interesting difference is the munition/reload mechanic between the two ships. Can I just say how much I prefer the reload action to simply having 2 slots? Even with Extra Munitions , lowering the cost, you still have the theoretic ability to make multiple 4 dice attacks in a row. That’s one of the things that has driven many 1 agility ships out of the game. Reload means that a ship has to fall back for at least 1 turn before it can swing around and use it’s 4 die attack again. That gives room for lower damage output and lower survivability ships to actually _do_ stuff.

And, of course, we should mention that the B-Wing has access to System Slot, whereas the Kimogila has the Salvaged Astromech . Which… I mean. I tend to think that those slots are of roughly equal utility. They do different things, but in general the System slots tend to offer power, and the Salvaged Mechs tend to offer a bit more power, but with a downside. I say “tend to”- certainly Unhinged Astromech is just straight up _good_.

My general sense is that the Kimogila fighter is what the B-Wing would be if the B-Wing were redesigned today, with a better understanding of game effects and a bigger pool of options. I’m both excited for the Kimogila and interested to see what might be done with the B-Wing in the future.

Power creep

I don't know it is like everyone saw that the Mist Hunter is not a comparable counterpart to the B-wing much like how Scyks are not a comparable counter part to the TIE Interceptor and then FFG released a much better model than both the scum and it intended counterparts.

The M3a Scyk was supposed to be the scum equivalent to A-wings/TIE Interceptors in which it failed so then FFG released the Protectorate which blew all 3 out of the water.

The G1a was supposed to be the scum equivalent to B-wing/Bomber which also failed so now this comes along.

The dial is going to be a big part of the comparison. If the Kimogila doesn't have a white turn, it's going to struggle to do much at all. If it's got a white 3 turn, then it should have the edge over the B-Wing thanks to the 4k and access to Unhinged Astromech.

5 minutes ago, Jarval said:

The dial is going to be a big part of the comparison. If the Kimogila doesn't have a white turn, it's going to struggle to do much at all. If it's got a white 3 turn, then it should have the edge over the B-Wing thanks to the 4k and access to Unhinged Astromech.

How does it matter if the Red 3 turn is becoming green from unhinged anyway?

5 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

How does it matter if the Red 3 turn is becoming green from unhinged anyway?

it's an extra point, which matters a LOT (re: deadeye, crackshot, Enforcer etc.)

if the turn is white, you won't need to spend that extra point. If all the Kim's turns are red, you're basically obligated to get unhinged

1 hour ago, Marinealver said:

The M3a Scyk was supposed to be the scum equivalent to A-wings/TIE Interceptors

Was it? I always guessed Naked Scyks were more like TIE fighters (yes, I know, Scum have Zs too), and Light Scyk obviously makes them much more in that range. Heavy is, I guess, akin to an A-wing as a cheap secondary weapon platform. The Fang is the interceptor style ship obviously because it has the Green Turns.

46 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

How does it matter if the Red 3 turn is becoming green from unhinged anyway?

They mentioned red 1 and 2 turns in the article - no mention of speed 3 turns at all. So the question is, does it have a 3 turn at all?

People say it's the same usefulness (or lack of) as a B-wing. I disagree. I think the Kimogila will prove more useful than a B-wing. That said, I don't think we can label it as power creep. "Better than a B-wing" doesn't mean a whole heap. Honestly the K-turn is a huge difference in viability.

3 minutes ago, Skargoth said:

People say it's the same usefulness (or lack of) as a B-wing. I disagree. I think the Kimogila will prove more useful than a B-wing. That said, I don't think we can label it as power creep. "Better than a B-wing" doesn't mean a whole heap. Honestly the K-turn is a huge difference in viability.

We already had the Ruthless Freelancer, which was basically a B-Wing without a barrel roll. For 1 point, you could fix that by taking the title, which also gives you a tractor beam.

I think mixing and matching them will be the way to go.

Is the M-12 L similar to the Arc-170? Bullseye vice aux (rear) arc, illicit vice crew, salvaged astro vice regular astro? High health, low agi, ordanance?

Perhaps?

17 minutes ago, Jarval said:

They mentioned red 1 and 2 turns in the article - no mention of speed 3 turns at all. So the question is, does it have a 3 turn at all?

A really important question. If it doesn't have 3 turns at all and is stuck with red 1 and 2 turns I don't think either it's bullseye arc or any combo of upgrades/title/pilot abilities will be enough to make it good. That would give it an extremely limited dial.

Just now, mdl0114 said:

A really important question. If it doesn't have 3 turns at all and is stuck with red 1 and 2 turns I don't think either it's bullseye arc or any combo of upgrades/title/pilot abilities will be enough to make it good. That would give it an extremely limited dial.

Agreed. I'm sincerely hoping it has speed 3 turns - not least because that makes Unhinged Astromech really quite tempting on it but hopefully not essential.

5 minutes ago, Cap116 said:

Is the M-12 L similar to the Arc-170? Bullseye vice aux (rear) arc, illicit vice crew, salvaged astro vice regular astro? High health, low agi, ordanance?

Perhaps?

I would say they are in similar ballparks, maybe. The Kimogila does have the advantage that you can run all generics on it, but it does have a similar ilk. It has Reload and x2 munitions over the Arc and native BRs though.

17 minutes ago, Cap116 said:

Is the M-12 L similar to the Arc-170? Bullseye vice aux (rear) arc, illicit vice crew, salvaged astro vice regular astro? High health, low agi, ordanance?

Perhaps?

rear-facing auxiliary arc basically invalidates any potential comparison as it throws their playstyles way out of whack with one another

the ARC can be built to be vastly more defensively capable (r2-d2 norra) and gets a lot of mileage out of exploiting its aux arc to fly defensively. The kim is the exact opposite, it is hyper aggressive and made of paper

might as well compare the kim to the interceptor at that point

I think it compares favorably to the B-Wing, more or less by whatever the bullseye arc ends up being worth.

Yes, are we really complaining about power creeping a trash ship? The Kimo is interesting right now, but yeah, dial is everything.

53 minutes ago, Skargoth said:

People say it's the same usefulness (or lack of) as a B-wing. I disagree. I think the Kimogila will prove more useful than a B-wing. That said, I don't think we can label it as power creep. "Better than a B-wing" doesn't mean a whole heap. Honestly the K-turn is a huge difference in viability.

It is not that it is better than the B-wing, but more that there already was a B-wing counterpart that was in all practicality worse than the B-wing so now this came along and it is clearly better than the B-wing.

However this now makes it a trend of scum release ships and that trend is what is the really construing the meta in favor of scum. Scum is the newcomer so it needs comparable ships to the original two factions. The Scyk came out which was comparable to Rebel's A-wing and Imperial's TIE Interceptor. However out of the three the Scyk was clearly the worst and by a far margin from the A-wing when compared the margin between A-wings and TIE Interceptors. To fix that the Protectorate was released which was overall the best of the interceptor type roles. Now Scum is on top. Taking a look at the Kimogila and it is almost the exact same story.