Is there any universe in which this is NOT a terrible upgrade?

The best I could come up with was Strom with AC, Clusters, and Munitions Failsafe. Strom's ability isn't terrible - especially against pilots like Talonbane and Fenn - and the Advanced is the cheapest platform to pull off this "infinite splash" trick I can think of. In theory - because I'm going on the card here - you can force Saturation Salvo to trigger twice by rolling your dice, using AC to cancel them, then choosing not to put down the two hits. That gives you an immediate miss which triggers the Salvo*. You then roll the second attack from Clusters, and do the same again. After that, Munitions Failsafe allows you to keep the Cluster Missile to repeat the action. Not awful, but still fairly situational. AC at least guarantees that your primary always rolls well, and if there's only one ship left you can just unload the Clusters anyway, so they're not wasted points.

*Saturation Salvo specifically mentions it triggers after a torp/missile attack that does not hit, and Cluster Missiles specifically mentions that it can attack twice. That said, Munitions Failsafe doesn't trigger if one misses and one hits. In theory, it works, but I'd be checking with some rules lawyers first. If Clusters doesn't interact this way, switch to Cruise, drop a point, and hold onto your target lock for repeated barrage.

All that said, it's still close to a third of your list for an anti-swarm/formation trick that really has limited use in 100pt play. In Epic, however, it could be hilarious.

31 minutes ago, Boba Rick said:

Is there any universe in which this is NOT a terrible upgrade?

No. it bad

Here is the major gimmick:

"Double Edge" (19)
Saturation Salvo (1)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Ion Pulse Missiles (3)
Munitions Failsafe (1)

Total: 27

TL a ship. Fire the Cruise missile, but do not add any dice (which you can because of "may). Then you will miss with only 1 dice, SS goes off. Then fire the IPM and don't re-roll any dice. With luck you miss again and get another Saturation salvo. Rinse and repeat. Its only going to be useful against a list that needs to stay in formation and has lower than two agility (rebel lists) and if your opponent doesn't know what he is doing.

He actually may have some legs in Epic though.

Ya it’s interesting. If it was free, and took up a non ept slot, and there was a meta where 2-3 ships were not the regular, and ships often missed with munitions... THEN it would maybe see use.

38 minutes ago, NakedDex said:

The best I could come up with was Strom with AC, Clusters, and Munitions Failsafe. Strom's ability isn't terrible - especially against pilots like Talonbane and Fenn - and the Advanced is the cheapest platform to pull off this "infinite splash" trick I can think of. In theory - because I'm going on the card here - you can force Saturation Salvo to trigger twice by rolling your dice, using AC to cancel them, then choosing not to put down the two hits. That gives you an immediate miss which triggers the Salvo*. You then roll the second attack from Clusters, and do the same again. After that, Munitions Failsafe allows you to keep the Cluster Missile to repeat the action. Not awful, but still fairly situational. AC at least guarantees that your primary always rolls well, and if there's only one ship left you can just unload the Clusters anyway, so they're not wasted points.

*Saturation Salvo specifically mentions it triggers after a torp/missile attack that does not hit, and Cluster Missiles specifically mentions that it can attack twice. That said, Munitions Failsafe doesn't trigger if one misses and one hits. In theory, it works, but I'd be checking with some rules lawyers first. If Clusters doesn't interact this way, switch to Cruise, drop a point, and hold onto your target lock for repeated barrage.

All that said, it's still close to a third of your list for an anti-swarm/formation trick that really has limited use in 100pt play. In Epic, however, it could be hilarious.

The cluster missile trick does not work. Saturation Salvo takes effect in Step 8 of the Timing Chart, and would only trigger if both cluster missile attacks miss (same as munitions failsafe).

I'd agree it's not great. It'd be taken when planning to not hit the target. That said, I think it'd go okay on a TIE Aggressor, TIE Bomber, or OS-1 with Unguided Rockets. Unfortunately, Unguided Rockets only costs 2 squad points, but in this meta that wouldn't be the worst. It could be okay against swarmy stuff, but it really isn't around.

“Double Edge”, Saturation Salvo, and Unguided Rockets. 22 points.

Or, two copies of xx-23 s-thread tracers.

Captain Jostero with cruise missiles (munition failsafe)? Move at low speed, fire, attack misses, 1 splash damage. This triggers Jostero's ability, he attacks again. He keeps the missile with munition failsafe, ready to use it at its full potential later on.

Not earth shattering, but still funny.

7 minutes ago, WAC47 said:

The cluster missile trick does not work. Saturation Salvo takes effect in Step 8 of the Timing Chart, and would only trigger if both cluster missile attacks miss (same as munitions failsafe).

Yeah, I figured it might not. Still, like I said, save a point and switch them to Cruise missiles for an arguably more reliable effect due to the target lock not being spent.

Yeah, it’s too bad, Cluster Missiles still only counts as one attack*. These builds might be fun though:

•Nera Dantels (38) - B-Wing
Saturation Salvo (1), Accuracy Corrector (3), Flechette Torpedoes (2), Ion Torpedoes (5), Munitions Failsafe (1)

Blackmoon Squadron Pilot (38) - E-Wing
•R2-D6 (1), Accuracy Corrector (3), Plasma Torpedoes (3), Munitions Failsafe (1), Saturation Salvo (1)

Although almost 40 points into such a gimmick is pretty bad.

*I now imagine Gimli flying a TIE Bomber and Legolas flying a TIE Interceptor. Gimli unleashed an enourmous volley of ordnance into a capital ship, completely obliterating it. Legolas: “that still only counts as one!”

Nera Dantels
Saturation Salvo
Accuracy Corrector
Proton Torpedoes
Extra Munitions
Munitions Failsafe

Proton torpedoes: Roll attack, cancel attack dice, don't add 2 hits.

35 minutes ago, Jo Jo said:

Here is the major gimmick:

"Double Edge" (19)
Saturation Salvo (1)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Ion Pulse Missiles (3)
Munitions Failsafe (1)

Good but put on SS, UR, and TLT. Focus, fire the UR, if it misses, TLT. Good against Scurrgs, Gila Monsters, YV666, K-Wings, Ghosts, Falcons, you get the point.

U-Wing Cassian Andor (27)
Saturation Salvo (1)
PlasmaTorpedo (3)
Accuracy Corrector (3)
Munitions Failsafe (1)
Baze Malbus (3)
Operations Specialist (3)
Pivot Wing (0)

Cassian Andor Fires Plasma Torps and uses Accuracy Corrector to cancel dice results. You do not have to add 2 hit results so it is a guranteed miss.

Defenders less than 3 agility kicks in the Salvo, Operations Specialist allows you a focus and Baze allows you to attack another target.

Second attack, you can use the focus or Accuracy corrector to save it for defense.

And it's a bargain build at only 41pts

I want to use it on OS-1 Rhos that have Clusters.

2 minutes ago, Celestial Lizards said:

I want to use it on OS-1 Rhos that have Clusters.

Clusters has anti-synergy with Saturation Salvo.

Cruise seems like the best value if you want to pull the trick with Munitions Failsafe. It reads as "you may", so you can just roll it as a single attack die. Decent chance that's going to be dodged, even if it does roll a natural hit.

Uhhh... just in case there is anyone out there who is confused, I think I'll lay out why this is a bad idea. (I think we all get that this is a bad card, but for those who are reading this thread in the future and have missed something, here it is, laid out)

• Point 1: This card only affects ships at Range 1 of the defender. With Biggs on his way out of the meta, how many opponents have you faced lately that kept their ships in a tight Range 1 formation? I think we'll be seeing some more 2 Aces & Support lists hitting the tables soon (Dash & Corran, Palp shuttle & aces, TIE Defenders, Decimator & aces, Shadow Caster & aces, etc). When you have a race for aces & high pilot skill, you almost never fly those things within Range 1 of each other, and with Lone Wolf being a great upgrade for mid-range aces, they have a not-uncommon incentive to stay apart. Aces are flankers, and want to stay apart from the rest of their squadron. Bombers, too: today's common Scurrgs and K-Wings don't want to be in a Range 1 formation either. Ask yourself: with Biggs out of the way, what lists would you be shooting this thing at?
• Point 2: This thing only triggers against those Range 1 ships that have less agility than the cost of your missile . If you're considering XX-23 Thread Tracers, then you should know that means that Salvation Salvo will only trigger against the Decimators and VCX-100 ships that are flying at Range 1 of the target of the missile. If you're shooting Cruise Missiles or Ion Pulse Missiles, you're only triggering it against AGI 2 ships flying in formation (which is more common among ships that want to fly in formation (excepting the TIE Fighter and Serissu), but this is contingent on people returning to using a nerfed Biggs or an expensive Captain Jonus). But see point 1: People are, and will be for the foreseeable future, flying "aces"; typically Agility 3 ships--Defenders, Protectorates, StarVipers, Corran Horn, TIE Advanced & Adv. Prototype, Brobots, and soon the TIE Silencer.
• Point 3: Even if you manage to catch your opponent's AGI 2 ships within Range 1 of each other and effect a miss, you're only getting a 50% chance to cause 1 damage to them. Let's say you're lucky enough to catch 2 enemy ships with AGI 2 at Range 1 of the target. 50% of two targets means you're going to do (on average) 1 damage per 3-point missile . Instead of firing a missile that could cause 2-4 damage to the defender, you're effectively cancelling that damage to cause 1 damage to the defender's neighbor (and, in the example scenario I just made, you're not even choosing which neighbor to damage, since it's up to chance).
  • Re: point 2: if you're still thinking of using XX-23 Thread Tracers, and thus effecting only Decimators and VCX-100s with their 0 AGI, remember that those ships cost upwards of 40-50 points, so your opponent will have only one of them in his squadron (if he is flying 2 Decimators, then the other Decimator is very likely the one you're shooting your missile at and hoping to miss). You're setting up all of this just to cause a 16-health ship a half a point of damage. (You literally would cause more damage by firing a HWK's primary weapon at the Decimator/VCX-100)

Now imagine you don't take Saturation Salvo and Munitions Failsafe. You've freed up 2 points and you can now upgrade your three-point missile to a Harpoon Missile and take the Guidance Chips mod. Not only can you now do up to 4 damage to the defender (more than you could have done spread out to a mini-swarm--remember at 50% odds, you would need 8 other ships surrounding the defender--a total of 9 ships in your opponent's squadron--to match that damage), but when you harpoon the defender, you actually have better odds of causing guaranteed damage to all of those Range 1 in-formation ships around the guy, with an added chance of causing even more damage to the defender himself in a future attack. Plus, you've shaved a point from your cost and freed up your EPT--you can now slap on VI or Crackshot and drive the point home.

2 hours ago, Boba Rick said:

Is there any universe in which this is NOT a terrible upgrade?

The one in which Countermeasures and Attanni Mindlink were terrible DOA upgrades.

The one in which friends are playing with two Core sets and three or four expansion packs.

What's the point of shouting into the echo chamber?

The targeted ship is at range 1 of itself, so it would be subject to the damage roll. Correct?

7 minutes ago, USCGrad90 said:

The targeted ship is at range 1 of itself, so it would be subject to the damage roll. Correct?

Correct, as it does not say 'other'.

I think the community universally agrees that this is a "weak" card - its many restrictions cripple it to the point of uselessness.

I'd also like to point out that this is a "bad" card in design terms as well. It adds certainty - if you ignore the points and munitions restrictions, it's effectively a guaranteed 1 damage when attacking. The card had to be restricted to the point of uselessness because otherwise it would limit the design space for future cards.

On ‎11‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 6:39 AM, gadwag said:

I think the community universally agrees that this is a "weak" card - its many restrictions cripple it to the point of uselessness.

I'd also like to point out that this is a "bad" card in design terms as well. It adds certainty - if you ignore the points and munitions restrictions, it's effectively a guaranteed 1 damage when attacking. The card had to be restricted to the point of uselessness because otherwise it would limit the design space for future cards.

The primary weaknesses comes in with taking up an EPT slot and the part where the basis of rolling for damage is on the Squad Point cost rather than something else. Most of the cards where the point cost is 3 or more are designed to have a better chance to hit and if you're spending points for a decent missle or torpedo, you're trying to Alpha Strike or get damage through shields.

The idea of being rewarded for failure, also seems a little odd. I think the card might make more sense to equip if it started with "After you perform a missle or torp that HITS..."

On 2017-11-03 at 3:38 PM, That Blasted Samophlange said:

“Double Edge”, Saturation Salvo, and Unguided Rockets. 22 points.

Or, two copies of xx-23 s-thread tracers.

So, as pointed out this, is sub optimal.. honestly, I forgot the agility clause. But, I would still try Saturation Salvo on a few ships.

Perhaps Double Edge will try a two copies of Harpoon Missiles, and the requisite munitions failsafe.

Major Rhymer with saturation Salvo and Advanced Homing missiles. Just for fun of course.