Its only crime is being EPT.

Even thematically speaking, having it as a missile or torpedo slot would have been vastly more appropriate, though I admit I'm not sure which would have been the best of the two.

1 minute ago, Reiver said:

Its only crime is being EPT.

Even thematically speaking, having it as a missile or torpedo slot would have been vastly more appropriate, though I admit I'm not sure which would have been the best of the two.

Should have been optional between the two: FFG are footing themselves in the shoot by not implementing more either/or statements into costs. There should be some kind of icon or term that conveys that it could fill either a missile slot or a torpedo slot. (The same should have been done for Extra Munitions)

5 hours ago, USCGrad90 said:

The idea of being rewarded for failure, also seems a little odd. I think the card might make more sense to equip if it started with "After you perform a missle or torp that HITS..."

I like this. In the current meta, you're not going to miss with a torpedo or missile. This could be an interesting EPT that actually might see play time for ordnance heavy builds.

On 11/3/2017 at 11:27 AM, Boba Rick said:

Is there any universe in which this is NOT a terrible upgrade?

The universe local meta where highly evasive ships, like Poetensity and Soontir, still widely matter.

People are trying AC/MF tricks to force a miss, which are cute, but the real deal is this:

Get a decent 4pts+ missile/torp, like Harpoons, on a boat that has Reload. Try to hit them. You probably won't, because your boat also happens to have Advanced SLAM on it instead of Guidance Chips....hint, hint... If you miss, then SS has a 50% chance of hitting any ship within Range 1 of the target, which includes itself, so you have a decent chance of putting damage on target anyways, and can reload the ordnance. They have to consider wether or not to force you to miss by using AT/Evade Tokens/etc. and risk any near-bye friendlies in addition to a coin-flip on themselves anyways, or allow you to put at least one damage on them and not risk a splash. Against low health/ high evade aces, it won't take much.

Reload and repeat.

Its not horrible, but its not suited for the current widespread meta.

Captain Jostero (24)
Saturation Salvo (1)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Scavenger Crane (2)
Munitions Failsafe (1)
Vaksai (0)

Total: 27

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

TL someone with high agility (or have someone else hand you a TL), then catch them in arc at range 2-3.

roll 1 die for cruise missile. do NOT spend your TL. If you hit, great, if you dont, failsafe, and the target rolls for saturation salvo (along with anyone near him)

If saturation salvo triggers on your primary target, Jostaru gets another shot. And still has a TL. And still has a cruise missile. And still has Saturation salvo.

call it a 1/4 chance of 2 damage against a cloaked whisper.

On 11/3/2017 at 11:27 AM, Boba Rick said:

Is there any universe in which this is NOT a terrible upgrade?

One where we didn't rely on erratas and nerfs for balance.

It is not uncommon to see an upgrade that was to correct a meta 2 waves ago (i.e. Agent Kallus, Predator). Now sine we can simply change the card it is often that we won't be seeing any correction upgrades that are good. Splash damage would be great against swarms and close formations, but we already nuked that.

21 minutes ago, Rakaydos said:

Captain Jostero (24)
Saturation Salvo (1)
Cruise Missiles (3)
Scavenger Crane (2)
Munitions Failsafe (1)
Vaksai (0)

Total: 27

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

TL someone with high agility (or have someone else hand you a TL), then catch them in arc at range 2-3.

roll 1 die for cruise missile. do NOT spend your TL. If you hit, great, if you dont, failsafe, and the target rolls for saturation salvo (along with anyone near him)

If saturation salvo triggers on your primary target, Jostaru gets another shot. And still has a TL. And still has a cruise missile. And still has Saturation salvo.

call it a 1/4 chance of 2 damage against a cloaked whisper.

Salvo won't trigger against cloaked whisper, she has 4 agility.

Indeed, on a Vaksai, Salvo with Cruise will onyl trigger on 1 agi ships. The cost of your cruise missile is 2, not 3.

It bad.

This card just preemptively shuts down a swarm meta. Yaaaay...... now imperials can't fly the most imperial list. Fun. It's ok guys we have gunboats now.

5 minutes ago, rafcpl6868 said:

This card just preemptively shuts down a swarm meta. Yaaaay...... now imperials can't fly the most imperial list. Fun. It's ok guys we have gunboats now.

34 minutes ago, rafcpl6868 said:

This card just preemptively shuts down a swarm meta. Yaaaay...... now imperials can't fly the most imperial list. Fun. It's ok guys we have gunboats now.

if the guys spend an ept and 4 points or more on a missile that doesn't hit....... much better off with deayeye and harpoons for that

And it's not that imps cant fly them, they just fly them in formation. And this doesn't do anything gun for hire didn't do already.

As it stands it's a bad card. It's a poor attempt to boost the older upgrades that cost your mods to make them work by instead costing you an ept which is far and away better spent elsewhere on several other options. The only defense i see for it yet is the fact we have unreleased missiles to go in this wave it *might* have synergies with (although i highly doubt it)

9 hours ago, rafcpl6868 said:

This card just preemptively shuts down a swarm meta. Yaaaay...... now imperials can't fly the most imperial list. Fun. It's ok guys we have gunboats now.

No, Harpoon Missiles did that already.

• It's not a good enough trick I would actually want to spend many points on it.
• The points/agility limit means that the Vaksai upgrade is a problem as it actively reduces the number of feasible targets.
• My one thought on it is pairing it with cruise missiles & guidance chips on Gamma veterans:
  • That way, you can either use the missiles as 'proper' cruise missiles or as 'fake' assault missiles as required by the situation
  • Paying 3 for the missile and 1 for the EPT means you're still not gaining much benefit over harpoon missiles (which are a 4-dice keep-your-lock missile that keep your dial free for hunting lone targets and have a splash effect if you kill your target or land a subsequent critical for hunting clusters of ships)

Essentially, I don't see a use for them where harpoons wouldn't do better. Possibly flechette torpedoes, but most targets unmanouvrable enough to be hit by the saturation salvo will be too big to be hit by the stress, and vice-versa.

I'd like it a lot more if it just happened regardless- this way, it's a weird little step-brother of ruthlessness, and we all know how many people are using that.

49 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

• It's not a good enough trick I would actually want to spend many points on it.
• The points/agility limit means that the Vaksai upgrade is a problem as it actively reduces the number of feasible targets.
• My one thought on it is pairing it with cruise missiles & guidance chips on Gamma veterans:
  • That way, you can either use the missiles as 'proper' cruise missiles or as 'fake' assault missiles as required by the situation
  • Paying 3 for the missile and 1 for the EPT means you're still not gaining much benefit over harpoon missiles (which are a 4-dice keep-your-lock missile that keep your dial free for hunting lone targets and have a splash effect if you kill your target or land a subsequent critical for hunting clusters of ships)

Essentially, I don't see a use for them where harpoons wouldn't do better. Possibly flechette torpedoes, but most targets unmanouvrable enough to be hit by the saturation salvo will be too big to be hit by the stress, and vice-versa.

Flechettes will only saturate 1 or 0 agi ships though.

I think what kills it is the Range 1 limitation, honestly.

32 minutes ago, Captain Lackwit said:

I think what kills it is the Range 1 limitation, honestly.

I don't know- the Salvo doesn't exclude friendlies, so a greater range would mean artificially limiting your own movements for little gain, wouldn't it?

Range 1 doesn't stop other splash damage effects, , but here we have something that doesn't even guarantee it if it actually goes off.

The closest similarity this card appears to have is to Munitions Failsafe, as it is designed limiting the impact of failed shots, but EPT means cheap missile carriers don't benefit from it and 2 points means everyone who can carry it has better options...

I'll try it with Assault Missiles.

It's basically a failsafe for them.

May I present you triple-tap Bossk

YV-666: · Bossk (35)
Saturation Salvo (1)
Cruise Missiles (3)
"Mangler" Cannon (4)
Guidance Chips (0)
· IG-88D (1)
· Dengar (3)
Gunner (5)
Inertial Dampeners (1)
Aggressor: · IG-88B (36)
Adaptability (Increase) (0)
Heavy Laser Cannon (7)
Fire Control System (2)
Autothrusters (2)
IG-2000 (0)
-- TOTAL ------- 100p. --

Just example. There's room for small changes.

Idea is: move 1with Bossk, take TL, shoot with 2 dice Cruise Missles, reroll hits to misses with Dengar, trigger Saturation Salvo on agi2 ships then trigger IB88B and Mangler Cannon and then Gunner them

The only ship that can shoot three times in a row (doing dmg each time!). Each shot modified.

Enjoy!

You don't have to take the extra dice for your speed with Cruise Missiles

Cygnus Spaceworks AWACS

It's too situation IMO, with a 2 ship meta still being strong, I dont think it has a place yet.

30 minutes ago, RogueLeader42 said:

Cygnus Spaceworks AWACS

Lieutenant Karsabi — Alpha-class Star Wing	24
Saturation Salvo	1
Assault Missiles	5
Advanced SLAM	2
Os-1 Arsenal Loadout	2
Ship Total: 34
Rho Squadron Veteran — Alpha-class Star Wing	21
Saturation Salvo	1
Assault Missiles	5
Advanced SLAM	2
Os-1 Arsenal Loadout	2
Ship Total: 31
Colonel Jendon — Lambda-Class Shuttle	26
Fire-Control System	2
Systems Officer	2
ST-321	3
Ship Total: 33

D*mn, I want to try this! Not going to make any further assumptions, but this looks very thematic and fun as h*ll.

2 hours ago, RogueLeader42 said:

I'll try it with Assault Missiles.

It's basically a failsafe for them.

You get it. With a ship with Reload, you are getting your value for the 5pts they cost. If you hit, everyone gets splashed for 1, if you miss, everyone probably gets splashed for 1.

Harpoons have the benefit of keeping the Target Lock, and there isn't a huge amount of 4 Agility ships out there, unless Stealth Device Soontir and Whisper start showing back up, but I'm not sure its worth teching against them yet. So I think Harpoons are probably the better choice at this time. Homing Missiles may be if they do come back hard. Keeping the lock is synergetic with OS-1 since you can reload and fire on a ship that you already have locked. Assault Missiles would require an action for reload and a source for another lock. Deadeye isn't worth it with a OS-1 Missile Boat so SS is better with that ship.

A while back I made a semi-joke about how Imperials need to stop chasing the bombing effectiveness of the Rebel and S&V faction and instead embrace the idea of being superior Missile boats, instead of comparable bombers. Ruthlessness is interesting as it leans towards a Sabine (crew)-like effect (and came out earlier), however there are issues with bomb auto-damage vs attacks being avoidable, as well as splashing friendlies, Sabine transports being able to shoot instead of splash friendlies with bombs. Its not quite there. SS isn't faction locked to the Imperials, and also doesn't quite have the umph, however when comparing the two ships that have reload, the OS-1 Missile Boat and the Kimogila, the Imperials do have an advantage there with a more effective missile platform. I have a strong suspicion that FFG is nudging the Imperial faction that direction more and more.

I think its going to be interesting how the OS-1 shakes out.

It's even less good if you have Reload - because your missiles are inifnite but cost you actions and potentially shots to regain, you really want each one to have a big impact when you do fire it. And your EPT is the most useful slot to get that impact.

Does nothing against 2 ship lists. I'd use this in Epic though.