1 hour ago, ISD Avenger said:

Hasn’t that happened already? In ep4, Vader captures Leia, who feigns surprise & anger that Vader would dare attack a senatorial ship.

Rogue one makes this ridiculous as Vader watched her ship eject from a rebel fleet.

29 minutes ago, OlaphOfTheNorth said:

This is resolved easily enough by the assumption that Leia may not know Vader was present in person for that, and may in fact be hoping that Tantive IV managed to escape and jump to hyperspace without being 1. noticed or at least 2. identified by Devastator . The scene in ep IV is a bit strained, sure, but only for the audience (and Vader), who have more information than Leia herself.

I think we can resolve this even more simply by concluding that Leia was acting. Her ship's been boarded, her crew have been attacked, and she herself is now a prisoner. She's playing the diplomatic card, but she clearly knows it's futile, or she wouldn't have given R2 the plans. She's up the creek, but she might as well keep up appearances.

I don't think it's farfetched, especially for the Star Wars universe.

Oh, for sure, but I think she still may believe there's some slim chance it will actually work, too. I mean, she's obviously acting, she knows her mission to Scarif was NOT diplomatic in any sense...

51 minutes ago, ceejlekabeejle said:

I think we can resolve this even more simply by concluding that Leia was acting. Her ship's been boarded, her crew have been attacked, and she herself is now a prisoner. She's playing the diplomatic card, but she clearly knows it's futile, or she wouldn't have given R2 the plans. She's up the creek, but she might as well keep up appearances.

I don't think it's farfetched, especially for the Star Wars universe.

Plus, the Empire sent out an order to board every single CR-90 in the galaxy ( From A Certain Point of View anthology). It's possible that they cannot be 100% sure that Leia's ship was the one they saw fleeing at Scarif.

You all realize that "good" and "bad" movies are totally subjective categories right? Judging the Prequels by modern standards of good writing and acting is nothing more than a subjective judgement. Granted, the dialog and acting in those movies were received not very well by a lot of people as it seems, interestingly much more in the english-speaking countries of the world than in others. Might be because the dubbing fixes some weird dialoges but i dont know. But my point is there is no "objectively" good or bad movie. For example, the acting and characters in The Force Awakens were mostly perceived well written and executed, while i found them totally generic and forgettable. Mary Sue and perfect Pilot guy plus a totally unrealistic renegade stormtrooper. Trained and indoctrinated whole life from birth, betrayes his faction after first battle because of moral objections. Guess the Nazis did a much better job at brainwashind and propaganda. In the OT Characters like Biggs and Wedge were cool BECAUSE they were just totally normal people. We felt tension for them. Not like with Poe Dameron who is even implied in dialogue to be a total badass and ace pilot. Luke struggled against even 1 TIE Fighter and thats why we could connect to him and feared for him.

I loved the Prequels, because it took the very simplistic idea of a fairtale in space to a political level, something i generally like in my SciFi (Battlestar Galactica anyone?) and it showed a much greater scale of events. A greek tragedy of the downfall of a democracy. Granted, with cheesy dialoge somtimes but thats just lower on my priority list. And thats what its all about. Priorities. I liked Avatar for the emotional impact of the story and the creative world design, even if the story is nothing new. I liked Blade Runner and its sequel, although they totally sucked at the box office. I like Firefly, although its a trashy low-budged space western. (with great character depth though)

Also you can hardly judge the prequels without context. Have you seen the original trilogy before or after the prequels? Do you see them as a bad continuation of star wars, something that derives from what "is" star wars, or do you see them as a new approach to the universe? Do you personally like slapstick humour or not? How important are creative designs to you? Are you more of a worldbuilding fan or do you mostly care about heroic and sympathetic characters? I mean, look at a movie like Blade Runner. Deckard is pretty much a *******, a murder-for-hire and a rapist too. (That one scene with Rachel? Thats not how consent works!) Still people love the movie for pretty much only the visual athmosphere, music and philosophical questions.

So if i really like the prequels for the music, visuals, worldbuilding, action, political story and the overall tragedy character of the plot im a person who just likes a "bad" movie? Is it a bad movie if i and a lot of others can enjoy all those things in the these movies?
What does even make a obectively good movie? Exclusively good acting and writing? What about creativity? Allegories to real life?

My Point is, it all comes down to personal priorities. People like/dislike movies for very different reasons.
And i dare to say, if the prequels would exist without the OT, there would be much less hate towards them. The main issue is just that they are completely different from the original and people take that as a problem.

To a degree, you have a point. Art is subjective to the person experiencing it. Some people like scifi, others don't. Some people like romcoms, others don't. That's genre though. Someone liking new trilogy over original is subjective, and acceptable. There can be very obvious reasons to like one more than the other depending on what that person enjoys. JJ Star Trek gets a lot of flak, but they honestly aren't bad movies. Better than most of the old timeline track movies to be honest. Are they the star trek of old? No, but they aren't bad movies. The acting is on point, the effects are solid. You may not like them, they may not mesh with your idea of Star Trek, but if you step back and take an objective look at them, they're not bad.

BS to there being no objectively bad movies though.

Starcrash. Objectively bad. By any standards. Bad acting, bad effects, bad costume work, etc. "you can't judge by today's standards!" BS. It's a bad movie. But keep in mind that this movie came out a year after Ep4. Judge it by that. Bad acting, bad effects, bad costume work, etc.

Let's not start to use 'by today's standards' when talking about the PT though, they aren't old enough for that.

People study film as an art. You can find objectively bad elements in film. You can judge old films by current standards. You can judge old films by old standards. There is a reason there are classic movies that still get played today. Because they are objectively good films.

Plot, story lines, writing, editing, pacing, acting, directing all play into it. It gets complicated, but you can start dissect things.

Good actors in the prequel movies delivered terrible dialogue without any trace of emotion.

The Clone wars cartoon is different from the OT, but it's good. The Rebels cartoon is different from the OT, but it's good. Rogue one for that matter was considerably different from the OT, and it's good. The new trilogy almost seems a little too much the same as the OT, but still good. The PT really wasn't that different from the OT. Visually it fit. Macro level story-wise it fit. It should have been a no brainer, but Lucas held it back.

Would the PTs have been as maligned if they had come out without previous knowledge of Star Wars? No, probably not. But they also wouldn't have been nearly as successful. In fact, after the first one, I doubt the numbers would have stayed as high. The OT were young adult films that were attractive for children and pretty solid for adults. Ep 1 was a children's film that was somewhat attractive to the YA crowd, but muddied with long boring political machinations. Without the SW name keeping it afloat it wouldn't have done as well, nor would the following films. But that also means it would have caught less flack due to less popularity.

Here's a good way to judge it though. Take everyone that liked the OT. Many of them hated the PT. But no one seems to complain about RO. And except for the fact that the NT seems to follow the OT plotlines a little closely, no one has an issue with the NT.

I’m with kman, here- movies aren’t just art, they have technical attributes as well, and you can absolutely assess whether those attributes objectively do or do not accomplish the goals of the film. Does the acting convey emotion? Is the emotion it conveys in keeping with the theme and mood of the scene? Does the camera work immerse you in the world or distract you? Do the effects seem to fit? Does the writing sound natural or stilted? You can make stylistic decisions by defying audience expectations with all of these things, of course, but you can also serve up a mess of contradictory nonsense that completely fails to stand up under aesthetic scrutiny. There’s no shame in liking something bad despite its flaws, but denying that flaws can even exist because there’s no objective reality is complete dereliction of the purpose of conversations like this one.

FWIW I love Star Wars and don’t care whether or not I ever see one of the prequels again, not because I’m angry about them, just because they didn’t leave much of an impression on me at all. They’re aggressively, overwhelmingly OK.

Natalie Portman thought her career was ruined because of how awful the prequel trilogy turned out. I'm glad many of the actors' careers survived, but that fear was completely warranted.

EDIT - You know what, I'm not going to debate the quality of those movies. In the theaters, all I could see was a blatant and shameful attempt at hooking a younger generation... and it evidently worked.

17 hours ago, kmanweiss said:

BS to there being no objectively bad movies though.

I never attempted to state that. The PT has flaws. So has Rogue One. I mean the character motivations were pretty bad executed in Rogue. You can tell that Jyn Erso suddenly switches minds to give a heroic speech because they needed a heroic speech in that scene. And everyone on the rebel council has to be completely stupid of course for this underdog girl to wake them up. Because all those ex-generals and senators are of course not strategy/political experts at all, you know.

EP7 has lots of issues too and NOT basically everyone that liked the OT likes the NT, despite your statement. I mean, just take a look at the forums here. Many people have severe issues with the absolutely lazy ship designs that lack any creativity, the typical J.J. Abrams mysteryboy easy-way-out style of writing and his ignorance towards established lore and common sense just to serve the plot. Also the whole soft reboot thing. People are tired of that stuff. I think a lot of people's expectations for EP8 are as low as somehow possible now after seeing the same old walkers, triangles, doomsday weapon/megaship and the stupid up-sizing of literally everything.

But what i am trying to say is that its just too easy and simplistic to say the PT are just objectively bad movies. Yes they definately fail in some aspects like the dialogue and others. But my point is they are not just completely bad. They have some strengths too them and its those aspects that i mentioned earlier that i like them for.

Just now, >kkj said:

I never attempted to state that. The PT has flaws. So has Rogue One. I mean the character motivations were pretty bad executed in Rogue. You can tell that Jyn Erso suddenly switches minds to give a heroic speech because they needed a heroic speech in that scene. And everyone on the rebel council has to be completely stupid of course for this underdog girl to wake them up. Because all those ex-generals and senators are of course not strategy/political experts at all, you know.

EP7 has lots of issues too and NOT basically everyone that liked the OT likes the NT, despite your statement. I mean, just take a look at the forums here. Many people have severe issues with the absolutely lazy ship designs that lack any creativity, the typical J.J. Abrams mysteryboy easy-way-out style of writing and his ignorance towards established lore and common sense just to serve the plot. Also the whole soft reboot thing. People are tired of that stuff. I think a lot of people's expectations for EP8 are as low as somehow possible now after seeing the same old walkers, triangles, doomsday weapon/megaship and the stupid up-sizing of literally everything.

But what i am trying to say is that its just too easy and simplistic to say the PT are just objectively bad movies. Yes they definately fail in some aspects like the dialogue and others. But my point is they are not just completely bad. They have some strengths too them and its those aspects that i mentioned earlier that i like them for.

It's hard to find a movie without any flaws. RO, the OT, etc have flaws without a doubt. They have a weak line here or there, or an unbelievable bit of deus ex machina, but overall, they are all around solid films. I'm not arguing that any of them are historical treasures.

People have problems with the NT, no doubt. But FEW people actually dislike Ep7. They may not be fans of elements of it, but they are only upset with those elements, not the overall experience.

And thus we come back to the idea of a reboot. There are strengths to the PT movies. Utilize those strengths while cutting out the weak parts. Save the designs of the new craft. Save the general overall plot with the rise of the emperor. Cut out the unbelievable love scenes and the boring political junk. Rewrite Anakin to be interesting. Give us a believable arc for Anakin that would show how and why he turns to the darkside. Create a continuity to the OT instead of a contrast to it. Ep1 would need to be basically scrapped, but large elements of 2 and 3 could be salvaged for the most part. The PT drag down the franchise, and cutting that out while improving the overall quality would be a benefit.

Ep1 was pretty much maligned by old fans and critics alike. The only fans it ever had were the new, young fans that had limited exposure to the original content. 2 and 3 improved, but never lived up to the OT or any of the new content coming out. Time has not done much to change that. It wasn't due to old bitter fans not liking the new content, otherwise the NT would be doing equally as bad.

Again, being objectively bad doesn't mean it can't be enjoyed. I personally LOVE Ice Pirates. But I'd never argue that it's a good movie simply because I enjoy it. It's not. It's bad. Should it be rebooted? God no. Not because I want to preserve it in it's form, or because it would insult my nostalgia gland, but because the idea isn't worth rebooting to begin with. It deserves to be exactly what it is...a bad movie. The PT don't deserve that. EP1-3 deserve a reboot so that they can be as good as they should have been to begin with. They never got a chance to live up to their potential.

Well this has digressed...

1 hour ago, kmanweiss said:

Cut out the unbelievable love scenes and the boring political junk.

Much as I found the former boring, not only was the latter interesting, but both were integral parts of the story. Those are some of the few things that must be in the story. Perhaps the former could be rewritten to make it better, but they both must be present.

Well lemme ask this has anyone else ever watched the PT and thought where the h*** is Crow t. Robot and Tom Servo? In fact I want this to happen. Who else would pay for such a feat?

6 minutes ago, Noosh said:

Well lemme ask this has anyone else ever watched the PT and thought where the h*** is Crow t. Robot and Tom Servo? In fact I want this to happen. Who else would pay for such a feat?

Who? Why would I care about them being in the films?

26 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Much as I found the former boring, not only was the latter interesting, but both were integral parts of the story. Those are some of the few things that must be in the story. Perhaps the former could be rewritten to make it better, but they both must be present.

The politics are needed, but they could be cut down SIGNIFICANTLY. We don't need to see parliamentary procedure in practice. It's not exciting being in meetings like that, it certainly isn't entertaining to observe.

And the love story isn't required at all, certainly not if the PT version is what we get. There was no reason for those two to be attracted to one another. He hated everything about the Republic which she absolutely worshiped. In every scene together he was brooding and whiny. There was no chemistry, no romance, no emotion. Lucas phoned this in completely. "Well, they are the only two 'teenagers' in the story, so of course they will just want to bump uglies."

There is no reason to have a relationship. Have them meet and be physically attracted to one another. No need to even know who each other is. Have him use his powers to influence her into physical relations. He has no idea of the pregnancy. She learns about the pregnancy after finding out who he is. He knows he's not supposed to have relationships, so he doesn't form them. She keeps the secret from him.

17 minutes ago, Noosh said:

Well lemme ask this has anyone else ever watched the PT and thought where the h*** is Crow t. Robot and Tom Servo? In fact I want this to happen. Who else would pay for such a feat?

Rifftrax for Ep1 is about the only good thing about Ep1. And in my mind, Servo is part of SW canon as I include Troops as canon. lol

5 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Who? Why would I care about them being in the films?

Ow right in the memories....

MST3K the show that made fun out if old B movies.... You will never be the same when watching a sub par movie ever again.

@GhostofNobodyInParticular I highly recommend watching MST3K, (mystery science theater 3000) there are tons of them. My advice go to your preferred streaming service. Choose the episode with a movie premise that sounds comically awful. Watch. Enjoy! Their only 1.5hrs long so easy to watch after work.

Ghost just made me feel old.... Like real old.

17 minutes ago, kmanweiss said:

The politics are needed, but they could be cut down SIGNIFICANTLY. We don't need to see parliamentary procedure in practice. It's not exciting being in meetings like that, it certainly isn't entertaining to observe.

And the love story isn't required at all, certainly not if the PT version is what we get. There was no reason for those two to be attracted to one another. He hated everything about the Republic which she absolutely worshiped. In every scene together he was brooding and whiny. There was no chemistry, no romance, no emotion. Lucas phoned this in completely. "Well, they are the only two 'teenagers' in the story, so of course they will just want to bump uglies."

There is no reason to have a relationship. Have them meet and be physically attracted to one another. No need to even know who each other is. Have him use his powers to influence her into physical relations. He has no idea of the pregnancy. She learns about the pregnancy after finding out who he is. He knows he's not supposed to have relationships, so he doesn't form them. She keeps the secret from him.

That would be terrible! First off, the politics helped to show just how rotten the Republic was. The scenes where necessary to show the apathy and corruption of the characters, to explain some motivations, and to provide opportunities for Palpatine to give his 'lectures' to Anakin, which only would have made sense had the audience known of the Senate sessions that had transpired. Heck, politics is so much a part of Star Wars that most of the Clone Wars revolved around it, and little actual clone-v-droid battles happened.

As for the second bit - this I couldn't disagree with more. Maybe the reason their relationship got started could use further explanation, but the relationship had to be mutual and voluntary from the start. Anakin using his powers to seduce her would be counter to the very point of it! The whole idea was that it started out as two innocent beings in love getting together, and struggling to live as ordinary a life as possible whilst keeping it a secret. Her love of the Republic and his hate of it came about after they first met, remember. He only started hating it 10 years after he met her. It was a point of discord within their relationship, which explains why she 'betrays' him and why he eventually breaks her heart. The pregnancy was important because it added extra strain on their relationship. His sticking to the Jedi Code about relationships by not forming them, as you suggest, would fail to depict the fact that he disagrees with much of the Jedi Code and its restrictiveness. It's his major bone with the Order. The love story and all its elements aforementioned are absolutely necessary to the progression of the plot. As is the politics. They are the focus of the story. The details of the Clone Wars are sideshows. They merely serve to give a context to the political and private struggle the two main characters are experiencing as one sees the Order he belongs to become hypocritical, stagnant, and oppressive and the other sees the Republic she has dedicated her life to slowly bring about its own death through incompetence and corruption. The paths they then take in response to it brings about their clash, his fall, her death, and the sundering of the twins. You cannot remove these two key elements and expect a better story. Most certainly not as you suggest.

58 minutes ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Who? Why would I care about them being in the films?

Ghost you have got to check out Mystery Science Theater 3000 it's absolute genius

1 minute ago, Megatronrex said:

Ghost you have got to check out Mystery Science Theater 3000 it's absolute genius

With two recommendations I can hardly fail to. When I have time I shall.

On 08/11/2017 at 7:59 AM, ceejlekabeejle said:

Equally, however, I might be wrong. It's not like we get too upset at Empire vs Empire games at tournaments; no-one's going to protest even a Separatist vs First Order game, were they to be incorporated. I just think it'd be a tricky one for FFG to manoeuvre when there's plenty of scope left within the existing game and era.

Sorry, I'm going to be that guy. Separatist vs First Order makes me twitch.

As for the prequels and the politics. It's not that they need to be cut down, it's that they don't make any sense. Why are the Trade Federation blockading Naboo? Why are Separatists leaving the Republic and why if they leave does that mean war? These are pretty fundamental questions which are the core of the conflicts in the PT, and the answer to both is essentially "an evil wizard did it". Politics can be absolutely fascinating (see West Wing etc.) but they have to make sense and both arguments need to be fleshed out.

Agree to disagree then.

The politics is important, but the there are entire scenes that provide no value. They don't show corruption. They don't show intrigue. They just show politics. They were technological showpieces so Lucas could shove tons of aliens into the same shot. Yes, the corruption, the republic falling apart are needed. As I said, those are valuable elements. But showing aliens debating on the senate floor is pointless.

There was no love story. You see basically every interaction between the two and it's nonsensical. There is no reason they'd have any interest in one another. Sure, they met years ago and had a nice exchange or two, but then suddenly they fall in love despite having nothing in common. It's bizarre. The only draw he needs to the darkside is the darkside itself. It would make the entire trip he takes make more sense. Throw in several instances where he's forced to use his powers against jedi teaching, but they achieve a positive result. Have a situation or two where he uses dark side powers to solve the issue, for the benefit of good. You start to see how he could believe that the Jedi are holding themselves back by not using their powers to their fullest. The entire time Skeev is manipulating him into these situations and planting the ideas. Anakin is using more and more powers from the dark side and becoming more powerful, but the Jedi are shunning him. The problem in the PT was that Anakin was portrayed as following the rules, and having no problem with the rules. He was a fantastic Jedi, but on a whim would turn evil. He turn in Skeev because he knows Skeev is bad, but then shows up to save him...for no reason. Why stop Mace? He slaughtered an entire village of sand people that may have wronged him...but killing the leader of all evil is somehow bad? Then suddenly he is cool with killing kids. He is turning to the darkside to save his wife, but then brutally force chokes her. It makes no sense. There is no journey to the darkside, it's just a switch that flips for him. He is given everything he desires from the Jedi, and warned about Skeev, and when Skeev turns out to be the bad guy, he's suddenly against the Jedi.

Create a realistic journey to convince Anakin that the Jedi are wrong and should make better use of their power. Have a situation where the Jedi ultimately could save someone close to him, but choose not to due to their rules finally tip him over the edge. Two republic transports are under attack. One of refugees, children, and Jedi friends of his. The other is populated with senators that are rumored to be corrupt and conspiring to turn against the republic. The jedi can save only 1 as they aren't willing to use their powers to their fullest. They choose the senator shuttle. Those same senators later defect with the help of a jedi that made the decision of who to save. Skeev convinces Anakin that the Jedi's teachings are holding the republic back and allowing the corruption to grow and convince him not to kill kids, but to lead the clones in killing off the Jedi. Each kill driving him deeper and deeper to the dark side.

Ultimately though, there relationship isn't even needed. Heck, she wouldn't even need to be the mother of his children. Leia is royalty due to who adopted her, not her birth mother. The mother of his children could be a random hookup on Coruscant, another Jedi even. Some other Jedi that Anakin engages with, but finally has to face off against. He wounds her, but doesn't kill her. He knows nothing of the pregnancy. Obi finds her in the temple and brings her aboard the ship. The relationship isn't needed for her storyline either. She's our eyes to see the corruption in the system. She needs not have but a minor connection to Anakin.

Beyond all that, drop little orphan annie story line. Anakin isn't some naïve slave kid. He's a roguish young teenage jerk using his powers to cheat and steal through life. His dad was a force sensitive that got caught cheating at cards and was killed. His mom was taken as payment and forced to be a slave. Have him haphazardly get stuck helping the Jedi and is forced to escape on their ship. You already start crafting a more believable storyline for him. He's been using his powers for personal gain his entire life. Now you craft a situation where you could even see him and the princess hitting it off. Friendly debates about how the republic is great, but he doesn't see it because of what he has lived through instead of the brooding whiney complaints of Ep2 Anakin. No romance though, good friends that click, but disagree on some things. You can imagine the witty banter between the two as they throw various flaws of their beliefs at each other.

Drop the gungans. Have Naboo be a world of two cultures. Base it on wealth. A wealthy upper class that lives in the lavish cities, and a poor rural folk that fend for themselves outside the city walls. The problems faced by the city don't apply to the rural folk, so the princess going to them for help is a real ordeal and she's faced to see her own hypocrisy on her own world backing up the story of what Anakin has seen. The rural folk help out, but instead of 18th century stand in a line and fire muskets type war scenario, you have more of a guerrilla style war where Anakin's talents start to shine and the Jedi are convinced of his abilities.

No dumb aliens. Political intrigue without parliamentary procedure. Close, believable relationships, without unbelievable campy love scenes. Real basis to believe Anakin's transition to evil. No little orphan Annie.

MST3k is great. The new and the old. Rifftrax is the original MST3k guys doing the same thing but to newer movies (like the PT films for instance). It's not quite the same, but you get the same effect. I highly recommend both.

2 hours ago, kmanweiss said:

Agree to disagree then.

The politics is important, but the there are entire scenes that provide no value. They don't show corruption. They don't show intrigue. They just show politics. They were technological showpieces so Lucas could shove tons of aliens into the same shot. Yes, the corruption, the republic falling apart are needed. As I said, those are valuable elements. But showing aliens debating on the senate floor is pointless.

There was no love story. You see basically every interaction between the two and it's nonsensical. There is no reason they'd have any interest in one another. Sure, they met years ago and had a nice exchange or two, but then suddenly they fall in love despite having nothing in common. It's bizarre. The only draw he needs to the darkside is the darkside itself. It would make the entire trip he takes make more sense. Throw in several instances where he's forced to use his powers against jedi teaching, but they achieve a positive result. Have a situation or two where he uses dark side powers to solve the issue, for the benefit of good. You start to see how he could believe that the Jedi are holding themselves back by not using their powers to their fullest. The entire time Skeev is manipulating him into these situations and planting the ideas. Anakin is using more and more powers from the dark side and becoming more powerful, but the Jedi are shunning him. The problem in the PT was that Anakin was portrayed as following the rules, and having no problem with the rules. He was a fantastic Jedi, but on a whim would turn evil. He turn in Skeev because he knows Skeev is bad, but then shows up to save him...for no reason. Why stop Mace? He slaughtered an entire village of sand people that may have wronged him...but killing the leader of all evil is somehow bad? Then suddenly he is cool with killing kids. He is turning to the darkside to save his wife, but then brutally force chokes her. It makes no sense. There is no journey to the darkside, it's just a switch that flips for him. He is given everything he desires from the Jedi, and warned about Skeev, and when Skeev turns out to be the bad guy, he's suddenly against the Jedi.

Create a realistic journey to convince Anakin that the Jedi are wrong and should make better use of their power. Have a situation where the Jedi ultimately could save someone close to him, but choose not to due to their rules finally tip him over the edge. Two republic transports are under attack. One of refugees, children, and Jedi friends of his. The other is populated with senators that are rumored to be corrupt and conspiring to turn against the republic. The jedi can save only 1 as they aren't willing to use their powers to their fullest. They choose the senator shuttle. Those same senators later defect with the help of a jedi that made the decision of who to save. Skeev convinces Anakin that the Jedi's teachings are holding the republic back and allowing the corruption to grow and convince him not to kill kids, but to lead the clones in killing off the Jedi. Each kill driving him deeper and deeper to the dark side.

Ultimately though, there relationship isn't even needed. Heck, she wouldn't even need to be the mother of his children. Leia is royalty due to who adopted her, not her birth mother. The mother of his children could be a random hookup on Coruscant, another Jedi even. Some other Jedi that Anakin engages with, but finally has to face off against. He wounds her, but doesn't kill her. He knows nothing of the pregnancy. Obi finds her in the temple and brings her aboard the ship. The relationship isn't needed for her storyline either. She's our eyes to see the corruption in the system. She needs not have but a minor connection to Anakin.

Beyond all that, drop little orphan annie story line. Anakin isn't some naïve slave kid. He's a roguish young teenage jerk using his powers to cheat and steal through life. His dad was a force sensitive that got caught cheating at cards and was killed. His mom was taken as payment and forced to be a slave. Have him haphazardly get stuck helping the Jedi and is forced to escape on their ship. You already start crafting a more believable storyline for him. He's been using his powers for personal gain his entire life. Now you craft a situation where you could even see him and the princess hitting it off. Friendly debates about how the republic is great, but he doesn't see it because of what he has lived through instead of the brooding whiney complaints of Ep2 Anakin. No romance though, good friends that click, but disagree on some things. You can imagine the witty banter between the two as they throw various flaws of their beliefs at each other.

Drop the gungans. Have Naboo be a world of two cultures. Base it on wealth. A wealthy upper class that lives in the lavish cities, and a poor rural folk that fend for themselves outside the city walls. The problems faced by the city don't apply to the rural folk, so the princess going to them for help is a real ordeal and she's faced to see her own hypocrisy on her own world backing up the story of what Anakin has seen. The rural folk help out, but instead of 18th century stand in a line and fire muskets type war scenario, you have more of a guerrilla style war where Anakin's talents start to shine and the Jedi are convinced of his abilities.

No dumb aliens. Political intrigue without parliamentary procedure. Close, believable relationships, without unbelievable campy love scenes. Real basis to believe Anakin's transition to evil. No little orphan Annie.

I am afraid we must.

I find the above to be far worse that the PT ever was purported to be. It changes the whole thing into an unrecognizable story, missing oh so many of the key elements (as I see them), and really has absolutely nothing to do with the plot of the PT. It may make for a good story on its own, but I don't want to see it as the new story of the PT. It would be a tragedy on the order of Turin Turambar's life, if you'll accept the hyperbolic analogy.