15 hours ago, blade_mercurial said:

I think you're overstating it by a lot. Although its true that this did happen back when triple torpedo jumps were at their strongest. Personally, I think this has more to do with ordnance being too powerful now; such that alpha strike lists are able to do too much damage without having to fly 'smart' to get it. So yeah, there are problems with the game, but its not really the initiative system.

For example, when triple jumps were common, players found ways to drop their initiative bid pretty low to win the mirror match, but then made it more difficult to beat other tanky lists. So to me, that seems fair and the initiative system can't really be faulted in that instance.

All that aside though, MOST of the time when there are equal PS ships AND both players are at the same points, its not really a 'mirror match' since card diversity is great enough now that its pretty rare you get exact mirror matches. So in this environment, the initiative system works fine. If you ever find yourself in a match where you really wanted the choice of initiative, you just have to bid enough for it. If you don't bid enough, its not the game system's fault that the choice came down to a coin toss when you can 'circumvent' that occurrence through list building...

Actually, I was thinking more about PS9 arc dodging aces, which might make a comeback. In my experience, it's pretty rare to win a game when your ace moves before your enemy's ace. The way I see it, any mechanic that makes the game a foregone conclusion before it even started is not a good mechanic.

Interesting idea in the op but I actually don't see a problem

On 11/3/2017 at 5:23 AM, SEApocalypse said:

Nope. Armada players still bid and they change init each round

No it doesn't. At one point in development it did and that was mentioned in the previews, but the mechanic was scrapped before the game hit the printers. Armada balances the advantage the player with initiative gets via deployment advantages and the missions.

11 hours ago, LordBlades said:

Actually, I was thinking more about PS9 arc dodging aces, which might make a comeback. In my experience, it's pretty rare to win a game when your ace moves before your enemy's ace. The way I see it, any mechanic that makes the game a foregone conclusion before it even started is not a good mechanic.

Its hardly a foregone conclusion. Moving first is a disadvantage no question when it comes down to 1v1. But if you are in a fight against a squad of that nature, you have to take out the enemy's best endgame ship before it comes down to 1v1, so its not like as soon as the match begins you haven't got a chance. Strategy and target priority can avoid the dreaded 1v1 scenario.

Also also, even if you can't avoid the 1v1 (due to how the game plays out), its still not impossible. If your ship is capable of barrel rolling, you can position yourself to deny the opponent's ability to dodge your arc. You lose a token, but insure a shot (and you shoot first so can hope for a lucky crit). Another option if your ship is worth more points is simply running away (kind of dirty, but in a timed tourney game, still a valid tactic). I used this successfully when I used to fly Lone Wolf Vader all the time (36 points is more than Fel or Fenn).

But lets not forget how rare this sort of thing occurs. I've been playing x-wing fairly consistently for nearly 6 years (including VASSAL) and I can only recall maybe a dozen such games. Although each game was memorable (even the ones I lost). For example, that game where I won with Fenn moving first against a shieldless Dengar was extremely satisfying. But I digress. The point is, I feel personally that the initiative mechanic works just fine. Even if you don't outbid your opponent and are forced to take initiative, there are plenty of strategies available to pull out the win.

Having said all that, I of course have no problem if others want to play the game with house rules. I just wanted to give some reasons why I don't feel altering the way initiative works improves the game, but I know others are looking for a different kind of experience and that's cool.