Turns out if you make Heavy Storm Troopers and HK Assassin Droids with shorter range but cheaper, they're really really strong.

We're half way though our first Heart of the Empire campaign and dear god Riot Troopers suck to play against. I'm finding that there is little point killing one unless I can kill both because otherwise at 2 points to reinforce they're far and away the most cost effective unit. And killing two with starter weapons or even tier 1 weapons usually means a lot of attacks spent.

The Sentry droids aren't quite so bad, but they are better than probe droids and they may even edge out storm troopers. However they're certainly strong and the 5 health means you won't be getting "free" kills with blasts, cleaves and pings like you can with the typical 3 health units.

Elite Sentry are pretty scary early to mid game honestly.

48 minutes ago, Union said:

Turns out if you make Heavy Storm Troopers and HK Assassin Droids with shorter range but cheaper, they're really really strong.

We're half way though our first Heart of the Empire campaign and dear god Riot Troopers suck to play against. I'm finding that there is little point killing one unless I can kill both because otherwise at 2 points to reinforce they're far and away the most cost effective unit. And killing two with starter weapons or even tier 1 weapons usually means a lot of attacks spent.

The Sentry droids aren't quite so bad, but they are better than probe droids and they may even edge out storm troopers. However they're certainly strong and the 5 health means you won't be getting "free" kills with blasts, cleaves and pings like you can with the typical 3 health units.

I hear you! And I feel it's even worse when the Imperial player gets access to the Supernatural Vigor card from the Power of the Darkside that grants +3 health to a unit. A riot trooper at 8 health for a round against starting weapon (Imperial player won the opening mission = 2 XP and bought this card)

Speaking of which, did your group play From Dark Clutches? It seems very hard for the rebels, unless you ignore the imperials for a few rounds to move further, but then riot troopers and sentry droids ... !

``

Our rebel group started so bad, that I want to suggest my group to stop the campaign, pick new heroes, start over and pretend the previous heroes were the team that got captured on Coruscant!

To me, Sentry Droids are only okay by themselves but are nasty if they have passive damage buffs. They are very scary with Reactive Defenses as they benefit quite a bit from the surge token (regulars anyway), and are nasty with +1 dmg from when they are within 2 spaces of the droid.

I agree about Reg Riot Trooper, they are extremely good for their cost.

Elite Riot Troopers, are also good but not quite as cost efficient and compete with Jet Troopers.

1 hour ago, Deadwolf said:

To me, Sentry Droids are only okay by themselves but are nasty if they have passive damage buffs. They are very scary with Reactive Defenses as they benefit quite a bit from the surge token (regulars anyway), and are nasty with +1 dmg from when they are within 2 spaces of the droid.

Yeah, the addition of Sentry droids makes Technological Superiority stronger as well. Experimental Arms + Superior Augments would make them pack quite a punch, especially against black dice with the surge for Pierce 2.

Unfortunately, I jumped the gun a bit on using TS in a campaign (currently running the deck in a Hoth campaign I'm playing) so it will have to be a while before I circle back around to it. I always wanted to use Technical Support to have HK droids focusing each other but HK Assassin droids are quite expensive at 8 threat for the regulars and 11 threat for the Elites. Sentry Droids are a bit more affordable which would maybe make them be able to be used like this (or as heal bots). Also, the Elite Sentry Droids are quite a bit more durable than Elite HK Assassin droids as well.

2 hours ago, IanSolo_FFG said:

Speaking of which, did your group play From Dark Clutches? It seems very hard for the rebels, unless you ignore the imperials for a few rounds to move further, but then riot troopers and sentry droids ... !

``

Yes, and a little luck either way on dice would have decided it. Ko-Tun was the last healthy hero and was down to 2 wounds left at one point even after pulling 2 med packs and the 3 strain + focus item from the deck. Rebels were barely able to achieve the objective on the final round, and it took a lot of thought as to how to approach the mission and when to just go for it.

It's a big map with some long empty hallways and by running the riot troops were denied a few attacks but once the Rebels got through the halls to objectives they were mercilessly beat to a pulp by the seemingly unkillable riot troops, the actually unkillable droid that follows them everywhere shooting them and the even more unkillable gun emplacements. Ugh. Very close.

6 hours ago, machfalcon said:

Yeah, the addition of Sentry droids makes Technological Superiority stronger as well. Experimental Arms + Superior Augments would make them pack quite a punch, especially against black dice with the surge for Pierce 2.

Unfortunately, I jumped the gun a bit on using TS in a campaign (currently running the deck in a Hoth campaign I'm playing) so it will have to be a while before I circle back around to it. I always wanted to use Technical Support to have HK droids focusing each other but HK Assassin droids are quite expensive at 8 threat for the regulars and 11 threat for the Elites. Sentry Droids are a bit more affordable which would maybe make them be able to be used like this (or as heal bots). Also, the Elite Sentry Droids are quite a bit more durable than Elite HK Assassin droids as well.

TS is my brother's go-to IP deck, and he's killing us with it right now.

Cloaking Device on an elite Stormie is bad enough; Cloaking Device on Elite Riots with "Shield" make them brutally resilient, and they can hit like a truck with "Adaptive Weapons" and "Experimental Arms" (for Red-Red + a surge for +2D, at the cost of just 1 damage). "Technical Support" Sentry Droids are the evolution of the healbot: faster, more resilient, and a constant pain in the butt if you try to ignore them.

I know TS isn't supposed to age well into the late campaign, but dang...

Agreed. The power creep in campaign is getting annoying. Seems like the last two campaigns they are releasing units that for the same price as previous threat units are just wayyyy more powerful and not worth using the older units. Sad to see the game going this way and lost it’s focus on balance.

1 minute ago, jomayo112 said:

Agreed. The power creep in campaign is getting annoying. Seems like the last two campaigns they are releasing units that for the same price as previous threat units are just wayyyy more powerful and not worth using the older units. Sad to see the game going this way and lost it’s focus on balance.

I blame skirmish.

1 hour ago, jomayo112 said:

Agreed. The power creep in campaign is getting annoying. Seems like the last two campaigns they are releasing units that for the same price as previous threat units are just wayyyy more powerful and not worth using the older units. Sad to see the game going this way and lost it’s focus on balance.

I tend to think the opposite way

It's not "newer units are better than older units at same cost", it's "older units are just not worth that much to begin with and should have been fixed"

I'd never deploy AT-ST for 14 because it's not worth 14 points even in campaign, when I could have just brought out 3 eStorms for 9. But now with HotE I might actually pay 9 to bring out the AT-DP

@TallGiraffe Agreed I always use skirmish as a gauge for power curve

2 hours ago, ricope said:

I tend to think the opposite way

It's not "newer units are better than older units at same cost", it's "older units are just not worth that much to begin with and should have been fixed"

I'd never deploy AT-ST for 14 because it's not worth 14 points even in campaign, when I could have just brought out 3 eStorms for 9. But now with HotE I might actually pay 9 to bring out the AT-DP

@TallGiraffe Agreed I always use skirmish as a gauge for power curve

The AT-DP is the first unit with assault that is actually good. And yeah, it will put a hurt down really quickly if not dealt with fast (which is not always easy to do).

6 hours ago, jomayo112 said:

Agreed. The power creep in campaign is getting annoying. Seems like the last two campaigns they are releasing units that for the same price as previous threat units are just wayyyy more powerful and not worth using the older units. Sad to see the game going this way and lost it’s focus on balance.

Yeah, Shyla and Vinto are so good that they might be even better than Diala and Fenn! The imperial player has less and less chance to win nowadays.

5 hours ago, ricope said:

I tend to think the opposite way

It's not "newer units are better than older units at same cost", it's "older units are just not worth that much to begin with and should have been fixed"

I'd never deploy AT-ST for 14 because it's not worth 14 points even in campaign, when I could have just brought out 3 eStorms for 9. But now with HotE I might actually pay 9 to bring out the AT-DP

@TallGiraffe Agreed I always use skirmish as a gauge for power curve

Yea in FFG fashion for all their games. They tend to overcost stuff at first. Happened in Armada, IA, and X-wing.

On 11/3/2017 at 11:47 PM, ricope said:

I tend to think the opposite way

@TallGiraffe It's not "newer units are better than older units at same cost", it's "older units are just not worth that much to begin with and should have been fixed"

Except Riot Troopers and Sentry Droids are edging out Storm Troopers and eStorm Troopers and they were the bar. Hired Guns used to be playable but are now pretty much pointless with Jet Pack Troopers and Riot Troopers. Probe Droids became a really rare pick with Sentry Droids and they had always been decent etc.

1 hour ago, Union said:

Except Riot Troopers and Sentry Droids are edging out Storm Troopers and eStorm Troopers and they were the bar. Hired Guns used to be playable but are now pretty much pointless with Jet Pack Troopers and Riot Troopers. Probe Droids became a really rare pick with Sentry Droids and they had always been decent etc.

Probe Droids will still be useful in the droid aspects of Tech Sup as Technical Support allows them to heal and focus your units for just 3 points.

9 hours ago, TallGiraffe said:

Probe Droids will still be useful in the droid aspects of Tech Sup as Technical Support allows them to heal and focus your units for just 3 points.

Not really, for 1 deployment card you're getting 2 units, and those units move faster and hit harder for the same cost per unit. Cloaking Device will affect both Sentry Droids rather than just 1 Probe Droid and so will Superior Augments gain more benefit. Also Technical Support isn't exactly good, but Arc Blasters on the other hand... go very well with Sentry Droids being able to hit multiple targets, as do Adaptive Weapons and Superior Augments.

Just now, Union said:

Not really, for 1 deployment card you're getting 2 units, and those units move faster and hit harder for the same cost per unit. Cloaking Device will affect both Sentry Droids rather than just 1 Probe Droid and so will Superior Augments gain more benefit. Also Technical Support isn't exactly good, but Arc Blasters on the other hand... go very well with Sentry Droids being able to hit multiple targets, as do Adaptive Weapons and Superior Augments.

In addition to your sentry droids I mean.

8 hours ago, Union said:

Also Technical Support isn't exactly good, but Arc Blasters on the other hand... go very well with Sentry Droids being able to hit multiple targets, as do Adaptive Weapons and Superior Augments.

While I agree that Arc Blasters, Superior Augments, Adaptive Weapons are all good, I really like Technical Support. For just 1XP, it can turn the tide in some of the early missions of the campaign in allowing to heal up one or even two attacks worth of damage on a figure. Recovering 3 damage can be pretty significant toward the outcome of the early missions when the heroes have mostly starter weapons still. The fact that it's not an attachment and applies to all droids is also very powerful. The +1 speed should also not be overlooked in that it can help get your droids into attack range and then back into cover.

7 minutes ago, machfalcon said:

While I agree that Arc Blasters, Superior Augments, Adaptive Weapons are all good, I really like Technical Support. For just 1XP, it can turn the tide in some of the early missions of the campaign in allowing to heal up one or even two attacks worth of damage on a figure. Recovering 3 damage can be pretty significant toward the outcome of the early missions when the heroes have mostly starter weapons still. The fact that it's not an attachment and applies to all droids is also very powerful. The +1 speed should also not be overlooked in that it can help get your droids into attack range and then back into cover.

I'd agree- I don't know if they were originally planning on droids eventually being so viable and numerous when TS was created.

thematically assess your map and mission and bring the units best suited for that map that fit the theme. your telling a cool story, not trying to win all the time......right..

14 hours ago, machfalcon said:

While I agree that Arc Blasters, Superior Augments, Adaptive Weapons are all good, I really like Technical Support. For just 1XP, it can turn the tide in some of the early missions of the campaign in allowing to heal up one or even two attacks worth of damage on a figure. Recovering 3 damage can be pretty significant toward the outcome of the early missions when the heroes have mostly starter weapons still. The fact that it's not an attachment and applies to all droids is also very powerful. The +1 speed should also not be overlooked in that it can help get your droids into attack range and then back into cover.

Better to just save the 1 XP and get Arc Blasters/Cloaking Device/Superior Augments a mission earlier because those cards will have a significant impact on that mission. I've taken Technical Support and had the empire player take it when I was Rebel and I've never found it particularly useful. Having a wounded target adjacent to your probe just doesn't come up very often, and when it is, you're healing a single point from Fenn's blast or something. If you're finding that useful you can pick Snow Troopers for the bonus health and healing.

Come on. I admit that I saved to get cloaking device first and then got technical support and that card combined with a bad roll from the rebels won me a mission. My probe healing a almost defeated RG that was blocking the rebels path was great. A cleave or blast couldn't kill him anymore, they had to commit attacks on him to bring him of.

Don't forget you can focus your units too.

On 11/7/2017 at 10:47 AM, machfalcon said:

While I agree that Arc Blasters, Superior Augments, Adaptive Weapons are all good, I really like Technical Support. For just 1XP, it can turn the tide in some of the early missions of the campaign in allowing to heal up one or even two attacks worth of damage on a figure. Recovering 3 damage can be pretty significant toward the outcome of the early missions when the heroes have mostly starter weapons still. The fact that it's not an attachment and applies to all droids is also very powerful. The +1 speed should also not be overlooked in that it can help get your droids into attack range and then back into cover.

And if you bring an elite Jawa, all of your droids get +2 speed, which is kind of insane.

Just now, Stompburger said:

And if you bring an elite Jawa, all of your droids get +2 speed, which is kind of insane.

And if you have an attachment with Superior Augments +3 speed