It has 4 hull

If he's not bringing squads then first of your rogue bombers and go get em

On 11/2/2017 at 11:29 PM, Blail Blerg said:

I contest the glass part:
1. Its the most durable small ship outside of xi7s usage.
2. It might still be the most durable small ship even with xi7s.
3. It has particular resilience to squadrons in general due to amount of shields. It is the hardest small ship to kill even with Yavaris and Norra.
4. All of this for an extremely competitive cost, making it easier to get first bid.
5. With how the game works with activations, offense and deleting things can work as a replicable defense with low skill floor.

Everything dies when its caught wrong. That doesn't define anything.

It is the most expensive small ship by a wide margin. By 10-15%, depending how you compare them. It has the most expensive small ship titles other than Demolisher--also by a pretty wide margin.

It had better be the most resilient .

And even so it's not always. A Nebulon head-on is more likely to survive most single large shots. A CR90A is way more survivable at its preferred engagement range, as is an Arquitens. The CR90B is miles ahead in hull cost (ramming/APT/Luke resilience).

"Glass cannon" is a very apt characterization.

4 hours ago, Ardaedhel said:

It is the most expensive small ship by a wide margin. By 10-15%, depending how you compare them. It has the most expensive small ship titles other than Demolisher--also by a pretty wide margin.

It had better be the most resilient .

And even so it's not always. A Nebulon head-on is more likely to survive most single large shots. A CR90A is way more survivable at its preferred engagement range, as is an Arquitens. The CR90B is miles ahead in hull cost (ramming/APT/Luke resilience).

"Glass cannon" is a very apt characterization.

Neb possibly.

Cr90A? Why? They have the same defense tokens. You could say its more manevuerable, but I can counter back that it has 2 command, making it easier to hold a Navigate token and it has many more options for making it sturdier.

Second, are all the small ships glass cannons then? Honestly, are you sure what you're saying actually makes sense, or is it more about proving me wrong?

This doesn't seem to fit that description. Third, "glass cannon" is not even the point of what I actually was originally talking about.

On 11/2/2017 at 6:52 PM, Plessiez said:

He's happy going first or second with them but I'm not happy going second against them so should probably increase my bid.

IMHO, that's the wrong way to go about this, and I suspect you'll keep having problems until you solve it.

Of the last, oh, 10 games I've played in person and on VASSAL, 2nd player has won all of them (usually that's me, but I've lost the times I've gone first, even with a Demo build planning for it) - and that's all down to the 2nd player building their list to be amazing with the objectives they picked.

134 pts of well-supported (bomber) squadrons, take Precision Strike + Fighter Ambush + Superior Positions, and then build all the way to 400 pts. You WANT second player.

Indeed, last match like that I played I won something like 230-0...it was a Superior Positions match and no ships died on either side, I just dealt with his fighter cover, and then kept my own fighters on his six and kept pounding his ships turn after turn. I mean, seriously, a 4x MC-30 list that you manage just two turns like that against is worth 120 pts, nothing dead or even really damaged. Add on a likely few more turns and cleaning out the fighter cover...

No problem! (Just don't get tricked into fighting ship-to-ship ...that's what he wants, and you don't , so...avoid that)

Beyond that, yeah, APT all the way. Maybe even with a commander like Screed so you can guarantee crits going through. Only 4 hull, so don't even bother worrying about knocking down the shields - just live and die for black crits and watch those ships dissolve like wet tissue paper.

Trade your stuff for legion.

Ram them.

Seriously, that's the fastest way to bypass thier defenses even quicker than attacking them with fighters. Admo can't do anything against Rams, while it stops apts.

In fact garels honor might be the best weapon against mc30s since it deals faceup ram cards!

IMO, the MC30c is the best Rebel ship and hard to counter. If Lando, Admo, even Foresight is on them it's even worse. I once flew Admo right in-between two Hammerheads and last/first-ed my opponent, it was brutal.

Recently I fielded out a Mon Karren BC (Intel Officer, GT, X17s, Leading Shots) and had some great success with it. (This is after failing hard and often with Liberty) Absolutely obliterated an ISD-II ...against an MC30 you could run her with SW7s instead of LS, and make them work to flank you.

Other alternatives include transports with tractor beams, BCC, and/or slicer tools. Change those Navs he's using into Squadron dials.