24 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Saw is the easier one and is based on the definition of the Rebel Faction itself. If you define it as people who want to topple the Empire, then yeah, Saw is dead center of that. But if you define the faction as members of the Rebel Alliance, then Saw (based on Rogue One and possibly a season 4 episode of Rebels) doesn't fit in the Rebels faction since he is not a member of the Rebel Alliance. Now, at one time he was, but then it becomes a question of which source are we basing a Saw card off of.

The Mining Guild is less defendable, but there are cases of them going behind the Empire's back to deal on the black market in Legends and I believe a criminal character in the Thrawn book is revealed to be/have been part of the Mining Guild. Plus, when you have a company with its own privatize troops, people raise eye brows. Like I said, not too concrete, but there is a toe hold to be had.

Sure but the angain If we accept that Scum is a melting pot for all these criminals, mercanaries and freelancers which in most cases would even fight between each other, why does something ahve to be 150% Rebel Alliance / Imperial Navy to be in there?
Saw would have most likely be back in the RA if he survived longer. He went for violence when Mon Mothma and her kind went for some kind of double strategy but after the Senate had been dissolved where is actually little difference between the RA and what had been Saws position.
And the MG, yes. ther is corruption. It is also in the imperial Navy and Army. But beside that certain individuals do is the MG still an imperial Organisation and not a part of the hutt clan.

EDIT:
Please tell me what is the reason why Saw or the Mining Guild should be considered part of Scum?

26 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

Saw is the easier one and is based on the definition of the Rebel Faction itself. If you define it as people who want to topple the Empire, then yeah, Saw is dead center of that. But if you define the faction as members of the Rebel Alliance, then Saw (based on Rogue One and possibly a season 4 episode of Rebels) doesn't fit in the Rebels faction since he is not a member of the Rebel Alliance. Now, at one time he was, but then it becomes a question of which source are we basing a Saw card off of.

The Mining Guild is less defendable, but there are cases of them going behind the Empire's back to deal on the black market in Legends and I believe a criminal character in the Thrawn book is revealed to be/have been part of the Mining Guild. Plus, when you have a company with its own privatize troops, people raise eye brows. Like I said, not too concrete, but there is a toe hold to be had.

There have been examples in the lore of imperials being corrupt. That's nothing new

2 minutes ago, Hannes Solo said:

Sure but the angain If we accept that Scum is a melting pot for all these criminals, mercanaries and freelancers which in most cases would even fight between each other, why does something ahve to be 150% Rebel Alliance / Imperial Navy to be in there?
Saw would have most likely be back in the RA if he survived longer. He went for violence when Mon Mothma and her kind went for some kind of double strategy but after the Senate had been dissolved where is actually little difference between the RA and what had been Saws position.
And the MG, yes. ther is corruption. It is also in the imperial Navy and Army. But beside that certain individuals do is the MG still an imperial Organisation and not a part of the hutt clan.

First, that definition of Scum is flawed because it discounts groups like Mandalorians, who are not freelancers but their own group with their own goals and concerns.

Second, your question begs its counterpart question in the form of "why does something have to be 150% Scum to be Scum?" I don't think you have to make a case that Saw is 150% Rebel, it's just that others view him with a smaller Rebel percentage.

As for Saw returning to the Allience, I actually disagree. While the way forward after the DeathStar was war, he would still be a paranoid extremist. He'd go to lengths others in the Allience would find unacceptable and be jumping at shadows. The Saw we got in Rogue One (and likely the more wildly known performance) was unstable. If I were in the Rebel Allience, I wouldn't want that kind of loose cannon at my back.

Now, I do thing Saw belongs more to the Rebel Alliance due to his past with them, but I don't think those who think he should be in Scum are necessarily wrong. As Obi Wan would say it's true, from a certain point of view.

And like I said, the Mining Guild is a less defensivable position, but it might be enough for others.

27 minutes ago, RufusDaMan said:

There have been examples in the lore of imperials being corrupt. That's nothing new

True, but that doesn't mean there isn't a case to be made that some of those corrupted might not make sense as both Imperial and Scum.

2 hours ago, Animewarsdude said:

I just want the Otana, the Rebels have the main character from X-Wing, the Empire has the main character from Tie Fighter, we just need the main character from X-wing: Alliance to have all three. The Otana was used, if I remember correctly, mostly on the side missions with Ace's family so it is less associated with the Rebellion itself, and hey then the Scum can have their own YT ship.

As much as I don't think the Rebels necessarily need another YT, I think it would make more sense for them to have it than the Scum. Even the Azzameens who don't actually join the Rebellion seem pretty solidly pro-Rebel (with one exception). While they may look for payment for their services sometimes, it's pretty clear where their loyalties lie (one may as well say Sienar Fleet Systems is Scum, just because they get paid rather than building ships for free).

1 hour ago, ScummyRebel said:

Not really. They may have been family jobs, but that family was always above board until they chose a side, the rebellion.

I know they set precedent with Emon and the Andrasta, however he only showed up for the family stuff never the rebellion. And all the otana pilots ended up dead rebel sympathizers or rebel pilots, so they're not really all that scummy.

Yeah, Emon's Andrasta is a bit unfortunate, but I guess it was either put him in Scum or else make the Firespray the first ship usable by all three factions.

8 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

True, but that doesn't mean there isn't a case to be made that some of those corrupted might not make sense as both Imperial and Scum.

Some would, but I think lines need to be drawn somewhere. Personally, if someone's pretty solidly for the Empire, and just wants to also make a little extra on the side, I'd say they're Imperial. If they're more concerned in their own interests, and just use the Empire as a means to an end, they're probably more Scum (though the Imps may still have a claim on them if they're still on their payroll).

22 minutes ago, SabineKey said:

True, but that doesn't mean there isn't a case to be made that some of those corrupted might not make sense as both Imperial and Scum.

If corrupt imperials are scum, then scum working for the empire are imperial. I guess we get Dengar, Bossk, IG, Zuckuss and 4LOM.

2 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

As much as I don't think the Rebels necessarily need another YT, I think it would make more sense for them to have it than the Scum. Even the Azzameens who don't actually join the Rebellion seem pretty solidly pro-Rebel (with one exception). While they may look for payment for their services sometimes, it's pretty clear where their loyalties lie (one may as well say Sienar Fleet Systems is Scum, just because they get paid rather than building ships for free).

Yeah, Emon's Andrasta is a bit unfortunate, but I guess it was either put him in Scum or else make the Firespray the first ship usable by all three factions.

Some would, but I think lines need to be drawn somewhere. Personally, if someone's pretty solidly for the Empire, and just wants to also make a little extra on the side, I'd say they're Imperial. If they're more concerned in their own interests, and just use the Empire as a means to an end, they're probably more Scum (though the Imps may still have a claim on them if they're still on their payroll).

I do think lines should be drawn, but until they are set in stone, they are open to debate. And there are a lot of different standards with which to measure one's alligences.

Like I said before, I believe the Mining Guild and Saw belong in the other two factions, but that doesn't mean that the view that they could be Scum is groundless.

1 minute ago, SabineKey said:

I do think lines should be drawn, but until they are set in stone, they are open to debate. And there are a lot of different standards with which to measure one's alligences.

Like I said before, I believe the Mining Guild and Saw belong in the other two factions, but that doesn't mean that the view that they could be Scum is groundless.

No. This is the Internet. None of this wishy-washy "multiple points of view" nonsense.

You have to pick a side, and then view anyone else who has any different beliefs (no matter how small the difference) as being utterly contemptible and beneath your notice! It's the only way to win Internets and prove that you're a true Forum Master!

Did somebody mention the Slave II? I did actually design an idea of a cool, unique role this ship could fit in the game:

Another ship that I could actually get behind (for some reason, I really like the aesthetic) is the YV-929:

23 minutes ago, RufusDaMan said:

If corrupt imperials are scum, then scum working for the empire are imperial. I guess we get Dengar, Bossk, IG, Zuckuss and 4LOM.

You misunderstood what I meant. I was inferring that some corrupt Imperial officials could be counted as both, ie, Scum and Imperial only crew or like terms. These aren't loyal Imperial officers who are dealing with "Scum" in order to get an edge. These are the ones who care nothing for the Imperial ideals and are just there to get rich and powerful without getting stepped on.

As for the bounty hunters, I would actually be in favor for them to be available for "hire" to the other two factions. But I don't think the belong to the Empire anymore than they do the Rebels. Remember admiral piett's reaction to brings by bounty hunters aboard. Not exactly a reaction to standard practice.

11 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

No. This is the Internet. None of this wishy-washy "multiple points of view" nonsense.

You have to pick a side, and then view anyone else who has any different beliefs (no matter how small the difference) as being utterly contemptible and beneath your notice! It's the only way to win Internets and prove that you're a true Forum Master!

That's not the high ground-I mean, Jedi way!

5 hours ago, Gadgetron said:

In legends the X-Wings were to replace the TIE fighter but the Incom engineers who designed it defected, stealing all the plans and prototypes they had on hand. However, it should be pointed out there would still be a few test models still in Imperial hands at testing facilities spread around the galaxy. So if FFG can give rebels TIEs because sabine had one, the Imperials should get X-Wings because they are bound to have a few left. Besides, according to Battlefront 2 (which is canon,) Inferno squad has at least 2 in their possession, so we can assume we already have at least 3 pilots for them.

I think Rebels is going to be introducing the X-Wing this season. I do hope they give us the backstory on them. And I _very_ much hope that they keep the "Incom engineers defected with the plans" story.

I like all three!

So this Scum TIE fighter is supposedly an inferior TIE to the Imperial version? BOOM! 10 point PS1 generic!

I've been wanting a 10 point ship since I started playing. 10 ships on the board! Yes!

2 hours ago, SabineKey said:

Saw is the easier one and is based on the definition of the Rebel Faction itself. If you define it as people who want to topple the Empire, then yeah, Saw is dead center of that. But if you define the faction as members of the Rebel Alliance, then Saw (based on Rogue One and possibly a season 4 episode of Rebels) doesn't fit in the Rebels faction since he is not a member of the Rebel Alliance. Now, at one time he was, but then it becomes a question of which source are we basing a Saw card off of.

The Mining Guild is less defendable, but there are cases of them going behind the Empire's back to deal on the black market in Legends and I believe a criminal character in the Thrawn book is revealed to be/have been part of the Mining Guild. Plus, when you have a company with its own privatize troops, people raise eye brows. Like I said, not too concrete, but there is a toe hold to be had.

Seems like FFG already has a precedent for these cases:

Make Saw a Rebel card, but make a new Partisan symbol that gets used with him (similar to Rebel Alliance vs Resistance symbols).

Likewise, Mining Guild could be Imperial, but get a new Mining Guild symbol instead of the Galactic Empire symbol (again, similar to Empire vs First Order symbols).

3 minutes ago, Freeptop said:

Seems like FFG already has a precedent for these cases:

Make Saw a Rebel card, but make a new Partisan symbol that gets used with him (similar to Rebel Alliance vs Resistance symbols).

Likewise, Mining Guild could be Imperial, but get a new Mining Guild symbol instead of the Galactic Empire symbol (again, similar to Empire vs First Order symbols).

Eh, I think that would just be a wasted effort. The First Order and the Resistance get their own sub-factions because they will get more ships and characters. Unless the MiningGuild or the Partisans are gonna be the subject of a major and ongoing series, then making them a sub-faction just feels unnecessary.

1 hour ago, SabineKey said:

First, that definition of Scum is flawed because it discounts groups like Mandalorians, who are not freelancers but their own group with their own goals and concerns.

Second, your question begs its counterpart question in the form of "why does something have to be 150% Scum to be Scum?" I don't think you have to make a case that Saw is 150% Rebel, it's just that others view him with a smaller Rebel percentage.

As for Saw returning to the Allience, I actually disagree. While the way forward after the DeathStar was war, he would still be a paranoid extremist. He'd go to lengths others in the Allience would find unacceptable and be jumping at shadows. The Saw we got in Rogue One (and likely the more wildly known performance) was unstable. If I were in the Rebel Allience, I wouldn't want that kind of loose cannon at my back.

Especially since in his state if you made a joke about the empire or did anything he regarded as weird he'd end up torturing you or killing you thinking you were an Imperial spy, especially with the number of defectors. Not to mention that he would be likely to have his men go on suicide missions if it meant hurting the empire.

50 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

As much as I don't think the Rebels necessarily need another YT, I think it would make more sense for them to have it than the Scum. Even the Azzameens who don't actually join the Rebellion seem pretty solidly pro-Rebel (with one exception). While they may look for payment for their services sometimes, it's pretty clear where their loyalties lie (one may as well say Sienar Fleet Systems is Scum, just because they get paid rather than building ships for free).

Well I also partially recommended the idea simply to have the three protagonists represented in the game with one each per faction, but I really don't care how they come to the game so long as they do at some point.

9 minutes ago, Punning Pundit said:

I think Rebels is going to be introducing the X-Wing this season. I do hope they give us the backstory on them. And I _very_ much hope that they keep the "Incom engineers defected with the plans" story.

I hope we do, but I'm not sure, traditionally the season trailers show stuff from the season they were aired in, the first trailer focusing on the Fall season and then we get a mid-season trailer in the new year. As such I think we will be getting more Loth Wolf stuff, and the X-wings will show up in the last episode of the season, especially since it looks like they are being used in a battle over ravaged Lothal.

14 hours ago, GILLIES291 said:

I'm definitely all for a Mining Guild TIE. They should be weaker though than standard TIEs according to lore.

Personally for Fringe I really want to see a Hondo Pirates epic expansion with:

Corona-class armed frigate (a faster and more heavily armed epic ship that can attack 360 degrees)

Flarestar-class attack shuttle (Hondo, Cad Bane, Aurra Sing, and Ohnaka Pirate for pilots)

Hondo Ohnaka, Aurra Sing, Asajj Ventress, and pirate crew.

Time to get some proper space pirates in the game by bringing in everyone's favourite

The Corona-Class is unfortunately to big. At least if we keep the epic scale and don't introduce another scaled down ship category.
What we could get is the Kom'rk-class, but that one is actually only lightly armed, but highly mobile.

9 minutes ago, SEApocalypse said:

The Corona-Class is unfortunately to big. At least if we keep the epic scale and don't introduce another scaled down ship category.
What we could get is the Kom'rk-class, but that one is actually only lightly armed, but highly mobile.

So it’s like the b58 hustler, a large fast but with just 4 bombs lightly armed, but flies like a smaller craft. That could be interesting

1 hour ago, Kieransi said:

Did somebody mention the Slave II? I did actually design an idea of a cool, unique role this ship could fit in the game:

Pursuer-Class Enforcement Ship

Attack: 2

Evade: 2

Hull: 7

Shield: 3

Actions: Target Lock, Focus, Coordinate

Upgrades: Crew, Crew, Missile, Torpedo, System

Pilots:

Boba Fett (PS9, EPT, Cost 35)

When attacking or defending, if there are two or less enemy ships at range 1-2 of you, you may reroll up to two dice.

K’armyn Viraxo (PS6, EPT, Cost 33)

At the start of the game, choose an enemy ship. Assign the “business rival” condition card to it.

Business Rival: when attacking K’armyn Viraxo, you must remove all stress tokens from yourself and the defender. Then roll one fewer die for each stress token removed from your ship.

Viraxo Ace (PS5, EPT, Cost 30)

[none]

Vengeful Mercenary (PS1, Cost 26)

[none]

Upgrades:

Slave II (Cost 2)

Pursuer-Class only. Title.

You may equip a turret upgrade costing 5 or less for free.

Enkidu (Cost 1)

Pursuer-Class only. Title.

When defending, you may receive a stress token to reroll any of your dice.

Military-Grade Shield Generators (Cost 4)

Large Ship Only. System.

At the end of the combat phase, you may recover one shield (up to your shield value).

Another ship that I could actually get behind (for some reason, I really like the aesthetic) is the YV-929:

Yes, but the real question is: would Viraxo ships be Scum, Imperial, or Rebel?

Re Mining guild as part of the Empire:

My sense is that the Mining Guild is a private entity that accepts contracts from the Empire, rather than being an arm of the Empire itself. It's kind of like Chevron's relationship with the US government.

I believe they may have actually have been accepting contracts from the CIS during the Clone wars, if that helps clarify their role within the Empire.

6 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

Yes, but the real question is: would Viraxo ships be Scum, Imperial, or Rebel?

I think you could make a convincing argument for all three, but I’d probably say Imperial, for game balance reasons and also because K’Armyn blackmailed an Imperial officer so the Empire was (albeit unhappily) allied to the Viraxo. I’d probably give both Imperial and Scum cards for the Viraxo though - kinda like Boba Fett.

12 minutes ago, Punning Pundit said:

Re Mining guild as part of the Empire:

My sense is that the Mining Guild is a private entity that accepts contracts from the Empire, rather than being an arm of the Empire itself. It's kind of like Chevron's relationship with the US government.

I believe they may have actually have been accepting contracts from the CIS during the Clone wars, if that helps clarify their role within the Empire.

Perhaps, but being a contractor doesn't automatically mean they don't fall under the Imperial heading.

I mean, suppose there were a game about the Cold War, with three factions: USA, USSR, and Other. Would Boeing fall under "Other" just because they're a contractor and not actually a part of the US military, and have ventures beyond defense contracts?

I'm not saying the case can't be made for the Mining Guild being scum, just that there's more to it than simply being contractors.

(Perhaps a better question would be, how would we classify the East India Company? They had a private military and a high degree of autonomy. British or Independent? Discuss.)

Saw should clearly be Rebel, that way, we can have Saw's U-wing and he can have Sabine, Ezra or Jyn as crew.

And it would be a good place to upgrade the U-wing, maybe fix the X-wing in a Partisan aces box, and finally get K-2S0 into the game.

3 hours ago, SabineKey said:

Eh, I think that would just be a wasted effort. The First Order and the Resistance get their own sub-factions because they will get more ships and characters. Unless the MiningGuild or the Partisans are gonna be the subject of a major and ongoing series, then making them a sub-faction just feels unnecessary.

It's not like the those symbols have any in-game meaning at this time - it's mostly just thematic. It's not really necessary for them to be fully-fleshed out sub-factions, and it would allow FFG to still make use of any future plans for the existing sub-factions without having to worry about how Partisans or Mining Guild might unbalance those plans.

Also, the only additional effort required would be to generate the symbol, which really isn't all that much. That said, I'm not invested in the idea, just I saw a way FFG could avoid shoe-horning the Partisans or the Mining Guild into the Scum, but still stay lore-accurate to them not really fitting into the Rebellion/Empire. Seemed like a simple fix, if you're assuming those entities are going to be brought into the game in the first place.

18 hours ago, ScummyRebel said:

Absolutely on the HH.

+1.

19 hours ago, Kdubb said:

I love when people joke about needing or wanting the Slave II in xwing.

HA HA HA!!

No, really, I want it too.

17 hours ago, ABXY said:

All three of those are in direct competition with either existing ships or each other (HH-87 v TIE) with regards to role and/or capability.

Irrelevant. Add more Star Wars to the game, please.

41 minutes ago, Freeptop said:

It's not like the those symbols have any in-game meaning at this time - it's mostly just thematic. It's not really necessary for them to be fully-fleshed out sub-factions, and it would allow FFG to still make use of any future plans for the existing sub-factions without having to worry about how Partisans or Mining Guild might unbalance those plans.

Also, the only additional effort required would be to generate the symbol, which really isn't all that much. That said, I'm not invested in the idea, just I saw a way FFG could avoid shoe-horning the Partisans or the Mining Guild into the Scum, but still stay lore-accurate to them not really fitting into the Rebellion/Empire. Seemed like a simple fix, if you're assuming those entities are going to be brought into the game in the first place.

See, to me your first point (sub-factions not really meaning anything) defeats your second point (giving the two ships autonomy from Rebels and Imps). It doesn't actually do anything.

Now, that is just me. If others like the idea, then maybe it'll be worthwhile.