14 hours ago, stonestokes said:

Your layout is great, and some of the house rules are pretty good. Giving a bunch of the named pilots EPT slots is a good change (though I wonder why some, like Hobbie or Tarn, got left out). Yet there is a lot in here I don't care for.

First of all, there is already a way to say "Limited to once per player." It is called " Unique ". Many of the cards you change to Unique , don't really need to be unique. The only one that might need that is Push The Limit, but I'm not sure.

Now for specific changes you've made:

Jek Porkins. This ability is almost worse than the original — assuming you can't gamble away the two stress tokens he just received, turning the game of X-Wing into a long game of drunken walk while the player just keeps rolling until Jek has no stress tokens on him. I've played standard Jek several times, and I've used his ability when getting an action was more important than avoiding damage. His new ability doesn't give me that option. I can't think of a situation where it is better to risk getting two stress to remove one.

Luke Skywalker. Yeah, Luke needs some love, but that's only in the current meta. Against wave 1 and 2 ships, Luke is fine as is. And in fact, his standard ability is probably stronger than the one you gave him, unless he has a way of piling on focus tokens. Currently, Luke is pretty resilient to multiple small attacks, but struggles against fewer large attacks. Your change merely flips that.

Ten Numb. Your wording is awkward. And again, I don't see why a change is needed here.

Fel's Wrath . Ok, this one I actually quite like. Well done!

R2-F2. This is much better than the standard version of this droid. At 3 points on an agility-2 ship, it could possibly be done without the stress token. Overall, though, I like this change.

R5-D8. This is another fine change.

R5-K6. At two points it should probably just work like Fire Control System. At least this is an improvement.

Bomblet Generator. I don't think this change is needed. Also, your wording is awkward, and like Jek it isn't clear that you cannot do both.

Autoblaster Cannon. Is this necessary? I haven't seen autoblasters really warping the game, honestly.

Sabine Wren. Ok. I'm not someone who sees any problem with the current Sabine Wren, but this version isn't awful.

Adaptability. Why?

Elusiveness. This is a fine change, but again I think the original card is fine too. I'm sure that your intention is to make the card stronger, but for some pilots (Ezra Bridger, e.g. ) this seems less strong.

Expose . 2 points is too cheap for this card.

Marksmanship . I like this change.

Push the Limit. I can't see any thematic reason why this should be unique, but I can understand why you would want to do so from a game mechanics point of view.

Veteran Instincts. Why?

The Power of the Dark Side . Ok.

Black Market Slicer Tools. I don't know why this needs to be nerfed.

Amplified Cannons . This is interesting. I would have to see it in play before forming an opinion.

Unguided Rockets. You don't like infinite rockets?

Engine Overcharge. Of all of the MANY proposals I've seen to "fix" the T-65, this may be my least favorite. For 2 points, I would prefer just to take Vectored Thrusters, even losing the Integrated Astromech. I fly X-Wings a lot. I mean A LOT! And the thing I love most about them is that they fly slow very well. But they need to take the focus action every turn, pretty much to survive. Taking that action away from them so that they can fly faster is not a good change for them.

Lightweight Frame. Why?

Autoblaster Turret. See Autoblaster Cannon above.

Blaster Turret. Pretty much how everyone thinks it should work.

Twin-Laser Turret. This is my favorite change you have made, and pretty much exactly how I've been wanting the TLT to work from the beginning. Very accurate, but not very powerful.

Cheers.

Edit : I forgot to add...

Initiative Phase. I like the idea of an initiative phase where the initiative changes. I don't like it to be random. If anything, it should switch back and forth from turn to turn. If it is random, then you will have a whole lot more unintentional bumping, which most people find to be a downside of the game. If I know you are moving your ace before I am moving my ace, I can account for that in the planning of the turn before (some of us do plan a couple of turns ahead).

Ok, the big one. Let's get it over with...

Kidding, mate. Your feedback is most appreciated. We have to thank Shane Gooseman for the awesome layout. He's our go-to guy for everything that requires an unhealthy level of devotion and effort.

Concerning your point about uniqueness, we just wanted to make it absolutely clear that these are not meant to be "unique-unique" (like, once on the table), but once per player. But yeah, from a rule viewpoint, the label "unique" would suffice.

Alright, now for the list:

Porkins: The risk is still there. Also, this is exactly what got the guy killed in the first place. From our experience, nobody ever takes Porkins because using his ability makes him less durable. We wanted to make his ability more like he's stunned by too much stress.

Luke: You are absolutely correct. But keeping our Rogue Squadron title in mind, this makes him a **** of a tough nut to crack. The main objective is to seperate Luke from his Rogue Squadron wingmen now. *cough* trench run *cough*

Ten Numb: The intention was to make Ten Numb + Mangler less of an auto-crippler. There's nothing more frustrating than having Soontir (or any ace without shields) hobbled by an unavoidable crit at range 3. So with our alteration, Numb still hits like a truck and will de-tokenize any target, but he'll not change the whole game in the second or third round. We are thinking about toning the effect down a bit, though. Anyway, what do you find awkward about the wording?

Fel's Wrath: Thank you, I'm proud of this one, too. Now people are gonna think twice before shooting this guy down.

R2-F2, R5-D8, R5-K6: Again, thanks.

Bomblet Token: We'll change the second "when"-condition to "after" for clarification. Good find! But in our opinion, the change was necessary to prevent too much bombspam. Imagine 5 Scimitar Squadron Bombers layering the field with bomblets. It's just not pretty.

Autoblaster/Autoblaster Turret: Again, unavoidable damage is something we are looking to get rid of in most cases. Now dodging an autoblaster can be done, but it's hard.

Sabine: Unavoidable damage again. Just a little change that makes Sabine's bombs more lethal. Makes sense from a fluff point of view.

Adaptability/VI: Because we added lots of Elite slots and we wanted to put more importance to the initial pilot skill values, we though it necessary to at least limit these.

Elusiveness: Exactly our thoughts. Elusiveness is underused. So now, it's a good situational counter against potentially devastating attacks.

Power of the dark side: Yes, it's just a very experimental talent. We'll still have to test it, but we liked the idea. The "I have you now" feel of it.

BMST/Unguided Rockets/ LWF: I 'splained our thought process on these in an earlier reply.

Amplified Cannons: Was a whole lot of fun during our test runs. Provides a little more punch to the A-Wing, but the tradeoff is there. One of our best balanced mods, imho.

Engine Overcharge: It's a "may" effect, which can be immensely useful. Yes, it makes the X-Wing faster, but it also provides the option to correct your bearing and prevent being blocked before you execute your maneuver. If you're good without it, you can still fly slow and focus.

Blaster Turret: yep, I guess this one's a no-brainer.

TLT: Oh yes! We were thinking about ditching this one completely at first, but during one of our balancing sessions, we came up with a considerable nerf which makes the TLT what it should be: a turret that doesn't hit too hard but is great at plinking away at the enemy. Its point cost is high enough to keep it from being an auto-include now.

Initiative phase: Alternating initiative is also something we considered at first. You are absolutely right about planning ahead. As of now, it can be one big monkey wrench - not getting that initiative roll when you need it most. And it's been really fun to have that nailbiter at the beginning of each round.

Well, that was quite the wall of text. Thanks a lot for your thoughts!

@stonestokes : thank you for your thougts.

our fault....we forgot about hobbie.

Tarn: we decided PS4 to be the lowest skill level to gain an EPT.

Porkins: I think he was not played BECAUSE of his ability, you are the first who tells me different... we'll see how it works out.

Ten Numb: the wording seems to need correction. Our aim was to get rid of any kind of unavoidable damage, therefore the changes. Same with autoblasters.

VI and adaptability: is still in discussion, the aim is to keep the pilots closer to their original skills. We also thought of limiting PS to a max of 9 or 10.

BMST: it is a byebye Soontir nobrainer card and therefore it needed nerfing

Engine Overcharge: It is not perfect yet, but it is heaps of fun playing it... X-wings feel fast and agile and just more RIGHT with it... give it a try. The X can still go slow and focus, but it gets more unpredictable with it an offers more possibilities. And you can also add VT if you like.

Initiative: alternating is also an possible solution, or perhaps both of it to be chosen in the beginning of the game.

so long for now

shane

18 minutes ago, Shane Gooseman said:

@stonestokes : thank you for your thougts.

our fault....we forgot about hobbie.

Tarn: we decided PS4 to be the lowest skill level to gain an EPT.

Porkins: I think he was not played BECAUSE of his ability, you are the first who tells me different... we'll see how it works out.

Ten Numb: the wording seems to need correction. Our aim was to get rid of any kind of unavoidable damage, therefore the changes. Same with autoblasters.

VI and adaptability: is still in discussion, the aim is to keep the pilots closer to their original skills. We also thought of limiting PS to a max of 9 or 10.

BMST: it is a byebye Soontir nobrainer card and therefore it needed nerfing

Engine Overcharge: It is not perfect yet, but it is heaps of fun playing it... X-wings feel fast and agile and just more RIGHT with it... give it a try. The X can still go slow and focus, but it gets more unpredictable with it an offers more possibilities. And you can also add VT if you like.

Initiative: alternating is also an possible solution, or perhaps both of it to be chosen in the beginning of the game.

so long for now

shane

I haven't had a chance to look properly at your efforts yet but I think any attempt to return X Wing to its original concept and simplicity and away from obscure Scum and Villainy uber, mega death ships and an FAQ longer than the rules themselves should be applauded.

I know it's a minority viewpoint but I sincerely believe the S & V faction has been disaster for this game. Going down the Armada route of having them as allies incorporated into Imperial and Rebel lists, possibly in the case of X Wing comprising up to a third of the 100 points, would have avoided the problems we have today IMO.

12 hours ago, Calibri Garamond said:

Cool

Some suggestions:

I like the choice between the different versions of Boba. Why not also make scum Kath an option?

Ten Numb ability is useless as worded, seeing as the opponent can completely surcomvent it by choosing not to cancel crits first. It should be "...the defender must cancel all of your ..."

Rouge squadron title would need a timing window for when to flip, for example beginning of combat phase. Otherwise you will be flippin' cards like crazy during the activation phase, as the ships move in and out of range from one another. The card is also absurdly uderpriced. Side A as a title should be at least 4 pts (compare to lone wolf without the range restriction, or predator for both offense and defense - and you still have your EPT slot unused). Side B would also be at least 4 pts (Put it on something with an EPT - move, TL for action. Beginning of combat, assign evade and then use Push The Limit to reposition in the combat phase! or to get that focus token). The difficulty of keeping the side you want up might make it slightly less attractive... but still. I would tone it way way down.

Darth Vader super EPT thingy is a really bad idea.

On a few upgrade cards the word 'once' is, I assume, used incorrectly (see for example adaptability).

- we just left out Kath Scarlet, because our focus for the first version was to stick to the OT pilots. And, quite frankly, I had completely forgotten about her...

- You are correct, you don't HAVE to cancel crits first. But on most occasions, this would mean that a crit goes through, which is a risk no ace will opt to take. I get your idea, and we will think about it. Maybe we'll reword the whole thing to "must cancel one of your crit results first and add one hit result to your roll." We'll see. Anyway, it is still a beta rule.

- yep. The timing was a concern I had, too. We just forgot to go over it once more before we put together the final v0.1 of the document. Will be added to our list of fixes.

- The Vader EPT is only "super" at a first glance. It's **** expensive and it stresses him, something he's looking to avoid at all cost, because the Advanced totally sucks at getting rid of stress. It'll require some more playtesting though - to really see if we went one step too far.

- the "once" point I already explained earlier. Just another clarification which, yes, is not really necessary, but doesn't hurt anyone.

Thank you so much for thinking about our stuff.

5 hours ago, debiler said:

- The Vader EPT is only "super" at a first glance. It's **** expensive and it stresses him, something he's looking to avoid at all cost, because the Advanced totally sucks at getting rid of stress. It'll require some more playtesting though - to really see if we went one step too far.

Well Captain Yorr is a thing

Wingman is a thing (rarely seen but if the trade-off is good enough it might be worth it)

I *really* like your darth vader only "power of the dark side" upgrade. About GD time Vader was actually the best pilot in the galaxy (PS12).

7 hours ago, Bolshevik65 said:

I know it's a minority viewpoint but I sincerely believe the S & V faction has been disaster for this game. Going down the Armada route of having them as allies incorporated into Imperial and Rebel lists, possibly in the case of X Wing comprising up to a third of the 100 points, would have avoided the problems we have today IMO.

We might be a minority but it doesn’t make us less correct. Agreed 100% on the above comment. Scum wouldn’t have the OP crap they have now if they were part of the yin yang scheme and not fighting to become the third super power, alas they are what they are a third wheel cancer.

2 hours ago, Sparklelord said:

Well Captain Yorr is a thing

Wingman is a thing (rarely seen but if the trade-off is good enough it might be worth it)

We had thought about wingman being an issue, but it'll still leave Vader actionless for one turn. Yorr we actually didn't consider. But then again, EU Vader with the Elite Talent and ATC + naked Yorr would cost 68 points. Just sayin. That's a lot of points for basically one very strong ship that can't take a punch if it uses all of its power on offense...

10 hours ago, debiler said:

Bomblet Token: We'll change the second "when"-condition to "after" for clarification. Good find! But in our opinion, the change was necessary to prevent too much bombspam. Imagine 5 Scimitar Squadron Bombers layering the field with bomblets. It's just not pretty.

Are you making Bomblet Generator non-unique? You shouldn't have 5 of them in a squad anyway...

10 hours ago, Bolshevik65 said:

I know it's a minority viewpoint but I sincerely believe the S & V faction has been disaster for this game. Going down the Armada route of having them as allies incorporated into Imperial and Rebel lists, possibly in the case of X Wing comprising up to a third of the 100 points, would have avoided the problems we have today IMO.

and

2 hours ago, LordFajubi said:

We might be a minority but it doesn’t make us less correct. Agreed 100% on the above comment. Scum wouldn’t have the OP crap they have now if they were part of the yin yang scheme and not fighting to become the third super power, alas they are what they are a third wheel cancer.

While I dont regard the scum faction as mother of evil, I do share your opinion that many of their highly overpowered ships and upgrades have done no good to the game.

I've had a similar idea about integrating some scum elements while preventing them to become an stand alone faction. To be honest, I am working on it right now, so this far from being ready.

I call it the Bounty Hunter Add-On. As we try to stay close to the movie content, I intend to grant the imperial side to "hire" one (and only one) of the 6 original bounty hunters along with their matching ships. They can either be regular part of the imperial squadron, using alle the imperial only upgrades, or (and i'd prefer this one) they are regarded as irregulars and may not use imp-only but scum-only content. Therefore they would not be regarded als friendly ships for all game mechanics except Lone Wolf. I haven't found any overpowered shenanigans within theses crossovers right now, but perhaps you do...let me know.

There will be serious downgrading to dengar and IG-88 (not quite sure what to do with this one) to make them fit in.

What do you think about it?

16 minutes ago, tsefardayah said:

Are you making Bomblet Generator non-unique? You shouldn't have 5 of them in a squad anyway...

No we are not. Just a missunderstanding. That would be so awfully wrong!!!! It stays unique for sure.

1 hour ago, Shane Gooseman said:

No we are not. Just a missunderstanding. That would be so awfully wrong!!!! It stays unique for sure.

Whoops. You are absolutely correct. My bad. Of course, it stays unique.

Ok, guys: is there anybody who would want to give a game or two a try over the weekend? We're eagerly looking forward to getting some feedback from outside our little circle.

No takers so far, huh?

We're gonna do some more thinking, developing and testing. Stay tuned for further updates.

bump

(I'm interested in seeing this develop further)

Hey there.

Thanks for all your input, critics an ideas!

For the last weeks we've been through a lot of testing, discussed much and altered some deals. So here we go with the new version (Beta 0.4). LINK (5mb) . LINK (20mb).

The promised squad builder has also advanced (so far the database and the base riggings are done) and we hope to have a running system in January.

On top we like to announce the upcoming Bounty-Hunter addon to Age Of Icons which will be released as open beta in a couple of days.

give it a try, enjoy and let us know

shane

Really love the relative simplicity of the changes. Will return later with more comments on everything.

To keep the system as simple as possible was one of the main goals we tried to achieve. Happy you approve.

looking forward to your feedback.

well just downloaded the PDF I will give it read over and post comments soon.

Initiative Phase : I like that you can still bid for some form of control, but Variant B is what I've wanted initiative to be for a long time.

Combat Phase : IMO, the official game needs to change to "starting with the highest PS and moving to the next-highest PS, each ship may perform one attack" to avoid Tel Trevura/Damaged Cockpit and similar weirdness. This could also be an opportunity for both Combat and Activation to alternate among players with ships of the same PS (instead of all your PS5's going before mine).

Primary Weapon/Turret Arc Rotation : Great idea. I think the free rotation at the beginning of activation should be enough (after maneuver is a much bigger advantage for high PS, which already has its advantages, and they have the action option anyway). In fact you may even test letting stress block this "free action" if you really want to take turrets back a notch. I love that secondary weapons (missiles, torps, cannons) can still be fired forward, which makes thematic sense as well as giving a little more incentive to take them (especially adding cannons to the Firespray!). Not sure why Hot Shot Blaster needs to be called out, nothing changes the way it works as worded.

Boosting Large Ships : This is also a long-overdue fix, since as noted Barrel Roll has already been fixed. With "train tracks" officially the way to resolve bumps, it wouldn't take any effort to add officially, either.

Y-Wing/TIE Bomber re-load action : I like it.

Firespray Illicit Slot : Thematically reasonable and lets illicits be used without Scum in the game, so I'm game.

Lambda white turns : Really interesting idea. Not a fan of just adding text to the card (since it would go on generics and uniques next to their pilot ability alike, so maybe a title that lets you equip another title?).

Rookie Pilot 20 points : I actually don't like this one. I'm OK with Rookies being in two wing-man pairs at best, with a few upgrades.

Red Squadron (etc) Elite Talent : It's the only way to make higher-PS generics meaningful, so I'm OK with it.

Hobbie (etc) Elite Talent : Pretty much if they're higher PS and named, they should have an EPT, yeah. Biggs might still need to be watched.

Garven/Porkins PS swap : Sure.

Porkins ability : No thanks. It's a loop with itself, doesn't work with his droid, and there was nothing wrong with his original ability (it's fun!).

Luke Skywalker : ...why? Again, I don't think there was anything wrong with the original abiility.

Ten Numb : His original ability isn't terrible, but this is an interesting alternative. Like to see where testing goes.

Fel's Wrath : What his ability always should've been.

Lt. Lorrir : What his ability always should've been (and why he's *almost* always been one of my favorite pilots).

Boba Fett : His Scum ability was always so much better; without Scum in the game it's fine.

Kath Scarlet : Her Scum ability is also better, but does it need to be reworded for the new mobile arcs?

R2-F2 change : Seems like a solid fix, kinda like a built-in Experimental Interface.

R5-D8 : Solid buff.

R5-K6 : Still no FCS, but better than it was. Actually, maybe remove the "cannot spend" bit to allow firing AND modifying Torpedoes (since FFG only likes Missiles for some reason!?)?

Bomblet Generator : Who would've thought making thematic sense would improve the card?

Autoblaster (and Turret) : Interesting change, worth testing.

Sabine Wren : Another thematic improvement, hooray!

Adaptability/Deadeye/PtL/VI uniqueness : I don't think VI is a good card for the game, but being Unique would help. Deadeye I agree doesn't need to be small only, but I don't think it needs to be Unique. Adaptability and PtL probably aren't hurt too bad.

Elusiveness : Seems reasonable considering how terrible the card is right now.

Expert Handling : Not a fan of the tracking issue, but I guess those already exist in the game elsewhere. Might be OK at 2 points still since Vectored Thrusters costs 2, though EPT is a more highly contested slot and stress is a little steep for removing a TL.

Expose : Simple, I like it.

Marksmanship : Thematic Improvement, I like it.

The Power of the Dark Side : Not sure what to make of it since it's way out there, but I am intrigued by the idea of character-only upgrades.

Saturation Salvo/Unguided Rockets/Lightweight Frame : Reasons? If it's a bad card, just leave it in and it doesn't hurt anything. None of these seem to be detrimental to the game, IMO.

Black Market Slicer Tools : As much as I disliked this card when it came out, I don't think it needs to be nerfed so hard. It's true the timing of removing the stress token can't help the opponent in any way, but I think just changing it to range 1 would be OK (keeping hit/crit).

Amplified Cannons : Neat alternative to the refit and encourages TL's, which is cool.

Engine Overcharge : OK since it locks you into greens.

Autothrusters : Maybe "other" firing arc? Otherwise it's a little confusing as written.

Blaster Turret : Probably still not great, but definitely an improvement (and a simple one for FFG to implement officially).

Twin Laser Turret : Nowhere near worth 6 points if it can only maybe do 1 damage. I'd rather see two shots that can't be modified or with limited modification or something like that instead.

Rogue Squadron : Neat dual card, but with offensive and defensive re-rolls it should probably cost more than 0 points.

Rebel Ace Pilot : "You may equip one additional [talent] Upgrade with a squad point cost of 0-2 (paying its squad point cost as normal). You cannot equip 2 of the same [talent] Upgrade cards." See A-Wing Test Pilot/Mist Hunter for wording. Maybe should cost a point on its own, as stacking EPT's, even cheap ones, can be very powerful.

TIE Pioneer : Makes sense.

ST-321 : Love it.

Wow, ObiWonka. Guys like you are exactly the reason why we started this project in the first place. Thanks so much for all your thoughts and the time you took to put them in writing. I'd love to comment on every single one of them, but my current physical state forbids me from using my computer for extended periods of time. Just letting you know that your input is most appreciated and posting the biggest thumbs up I can give.

I'm sure ShaneGooseman will go a bit more into detail as soon as he goes online and can find some time.

Cheers, buddy

So here comes the detail...

Combat phase: We thought about putting in an alterating system für equal pilot skills, but decided against because it would make the planing really hard regarding who bumps who questions.

Rookie Pilot: Reduced to 20 to squeeze in five naked X-Wings if wanted. Flying two by two surely has way more style.

Porkins: We always thought of Porkings abilitiy beiing really bad, but as get comments about it I think he had more fans than I assumed. Im tempted to give him back his old ability but with al little buff. Not sure how it should look like...what do you think?

Luke Skywalker: His old ability was too weak IMO. The new one works quite well with the RougeSqd Title and with Garven Drais. Another possibility would be him turning all eyes into evades.

Ten Numb and Autoblasters: We tried to get rid of all auto-damaging mechanics.

R5-K6: I like the idea of making him a torpedo bosster! I will implement this one right away!

Kath Scarlet: Indeed it needs a rewording, thanks for the heads up.

Expert Handling: I thought about making it 1 point cost... not sure about it.

Satuartion Salvo: This card is not broken but utterly stupid and we didnt want to have it in the game for that reason. Thats the only honest answer I have.

Unguided Rockets: While playtesting it turns out that they are quite strong and are more cannon than missile, so they just did not fit in comfy. But we are thinking of making them range 1-2 and 3 points cost instead of banning them.

Lightweight frame: The only ship in this system able to equip this card is the Tie Bomber and we dont think that all Ties and especially the Bomber need to have 3 green. Its a BOMBER! Its slow and fat (for a Tie)!

BMST: As they are a seroius death sentece to Soontir we thought them to be too powerful the way they were, but we tested them only twice yet so perhaps they turn out to be restored.

Autothruster: will check this out...

TLT: I didnt like this card since its release and the boys had a hard time talking me in to not delete it. Its intended to be a tokenstripper and does well as such. Perhaps 5 point cost would be more apropriate.

Rogue Sqd: It was at 0 points in version 0.1 - Now it is at 2 points cost. I think i forgot to redo the picture.

Rebel Ace Pilot: will check this also.

So again thank you for your thoughts on the project and i hope to have given some satisfying answers.

Eager to get more of your Ideas!

cheers

shane

Hey there.

The announced Bounty Hunters AddOn is available now. LINK(1,2mb) . LINK(20mb).

With this small AddOn we want to bring the the 6 Bounty Hunters from the Executors Brigde into the small frame of this OT-only system.

Flying a top craft with a top dial while having a top ability and a top pilot skill, Degar hat to suffer the biggest drawback to make him fit into the system. He is now PS 7, can only use his ability when reducing his agi by 1 and lost the ability to shoot out his starboard side.

But we gave him back the Astromech (unique only). (see title)

IG88 B also needed to be cut a little to fit in. He may now reroll 1 die when using a cannon or reroll 2 dice and get 1 stress using a cannon.

The K-4 droid was nerfed to work only if the ship completes its green maneuver. (not touching other ships or asteroids)

have fun

cheers

Shane

OOH, can we get Imperial Bounty Hunters?

Yeah an Imperial Jumpmaster would work good. Ohh or Imperial Bro Bots.

I just stumbled upon this, and I think it's brilliant (I'm an OT kind of XWing player)

Do you find that many cards released in later waves become unneeded? e.g. is it still as necessary to take autothrusters when you have the mobile firing arcs on all turrets?