I can't help but think how much guidance chips has changed out meta. To me one of the things keeping back many lists is the power creep in red dice, mostly I'm talking about ordnance. If GC would allow you to reroll rather than get an auto result, I think that would be reasonable for this already free upgrade and it would balance out nicely. Thoughts?

Guidance chips is perfectly fine as is. It’s 0 points, but it takes up a valuable slot (modifications). It fixed ordnance when ordnance was garbage. I’ve never heard anyone complain about it being broken powerful, yet it still makes its way consistently, but not universally, into lists with ordnance.

But re-rolled dice cannot be re-rolled again and Harpoons, Cruise, and Homing Missiles let you keep the Target Lock.

4 minutes ago, Boba Rick said:

But re-rolled dice cannot be re-rolled again and Harpoons, Cruise, and Homing Missiles let you keep the Target Lock.

True. But my point is I think everyone would enjoy the game more if being alpha striked wasn't as effective as it is now. Heck if you did that and change tlt a bit, I bet we would see bwings again.

GC is a factor in ordnance being...dumb; but it’s not the only one. I think individual pilots and missiles are more to blame; without chips, only missile carriers would be viable...

Although come to think of it, I guess that’s pretty much where we’re at.

7 minutes ago, Chief Hugh said:

Heck if you did that and change tlt a bit, I bet we would see bwings again.

Every time I play a B-Wing, I wonder why I’m not playing Jess, Rex, Braylen, Thane, or even just a TLT Y. They’ve got a huge number of problems, but one of the biggest is that they’re just outclassed by other options. I’d rather have Rex in my list for 22 points than a Blue Squadron for 22 points...in most matchups, anyway. I want them to be good, but at this point in the game...not happening. I’ll wait for MJ’s reboot, and then B-Wings will be good again.

12 minutes ago, Chief Hugh said:

I can't help but think how much guidance chips has changed out meta. To me one of the things keeping back many lists is the power creep in red dice, mostly I'm talking about ordnance. If GC would allow you to reroll rather than get an auto result, I think that would be reasonable for this already free upgrade and it would balance out nicely. Thoughts?

Ordinance is on a fine edge, before GC you just never saw it anywhere the price of a missile was just too high for what it gave you for 1 shot.

Missiles / torps are still not seen on many ships that have the slots for them for many reasons, ordinance itself therefore is not overpowered in a general sense more that its good on certain ships. Taking the Nerf bat to guidance chips will just make ordinance even less desirable on lots of ships that can take ordinance. you are looking at nerfing the wrong thing.

20 minutes ago, Icelom said:

Ordinance is on a fine edge, before GC you just never saw it anywhere the price of a missile was just too high for what it gave you for 1 shot.

Missiles / torps are still not seen on many ships that have the slots for them for many reasons, ordinance itself therefore is not overpowered in a general sense more that its good on certain ships. Taking the Nerf bat to guidance chips will just make ordinance even less desirable on lots of ships that can take ordinance. you are looking at nerfing the wrong thing.

Agreed. Ordnance isn't an auto-include, and it isn't a bad choice on many things either. As it should be

Guidance Chips is crazy powerful for 0pts. I think if it only converted a blank to a hit/crit, it would be fair. But any dice for 0pts is just too good. Even rolling four hits, you still get to change one to a crit with a primary 3. SOOOOO GOOOOOOOD!

But, if you take guidance chips away, then aces come out to play. Not sure whats worse. I think there just needs to be an ordnance counter like a small ship countermeasure.

Mod, 2pts

"At the beginning of combat phase, you may discard this card to add 1 agility to your ship until the end of the round. If you do, until the end of the round when defending, the attacker's dice may only be modified by spending focus tokens or target locks."

Basically shuts down guindance chips for a single round and saves ships from alpha strikes. Doesnt completely kill ordnance. And it isnt purely for ordnance, as it can shutdown expertise, predator, etc. for a single round as well if you are in a bad spot.

GC over-fixed ordnance. The problem is the old ordnance boats need love. Gunboat, Tie Bomber, Tie Punisher. It was an attempted fix. Kinda hamfisted.

There is 0% chance ordnance gets nerfed on the eve of the MISSILE BOAT dropping...

I keep thinking Chips should be "change a die to a focus" and that it was a bit of an overcorrection.

It's like the developers and the krayts say- You don't want to live in the world where (Quadjumpers, Ion, Munitions, Boshek, Bombs, pick one) is good.

It use to not be that good because missles/torps weren't all that great. It was a once, maybe twice a game effect. There has been a lot of power creep lately that has made it really good.

Okay, everyone calls it a 0 point upgrade, but it's not. Can you use it on primary weapon attacks? No. Are there any secondary missiles/torpedoes that cost 0 points? No. The cheapest thing you can use with GC is Flechette Torpedoes which comes at 2 points, so effectively the upgrade itself costs two points because you can only use it if you equip a torpedo or missile. Even on Flechette Torpedoes it's not super amazing because it's only 3 attack dice, and nowadays you need to be rolling 4+ to be considered "competitive".

So no, GC is fine.

2 minutes ago, Warlon said:

Okay, everyone calls it a 0 point upgrade, but it's not. Can you use it on primary weapon attacks? No. Are there any secondary missiles/torpedoes that cost 0 points? No. The cheapest thing you can use with GC is Flechette Torpedoes which comes at 2 points, so effectively the upgrade itself costs two points because you can only use it if you equip a torpedo or missile. Even on Flechette Torpedoes it's not super amazing because it's only 3 attack dice, and nowadays you need to be rolling 4+ to be considered "competitive".

So no, GC is fine.

Technically you could use it with Thread Tracers for 1 point, but still, your point is a solid one.

2 hours ago, wurms said:

Guidance Chips is crazy powerful for 0pts. I think if it only converted a blank to a hit/crit, it would be fair. But any dice for 0pts is just too good. Even rolling four hits, you still get to change one to a crit with a primary 3. SOOOOO GOOOOOOOD!

But, if you take guidance chips away, then aces come out to play. Not sure whats worse. I think there just needs to be an ordnance counter like a small ship countermeasure.

Mod, 2pts

"At the beginning of combat phase, you may discard this card to add 1 agility to your ship until the end of the round. If you do, until the end of the round when defending, the attacker's dice may only be modified by spending focus tokens or target locks."

Basically shuts down guindance chips for a single round and saves ships from alpha strikes. Doesnt completely kill ordnance. And it isnt purely for ordnance, as it can shutdown expertise, predator, etc. for a single round as well if you are in a bad spot.

Exactly this. The counter is a mod like above. It could cleverly be called "chaff dispenser. " I would make it a +2 die defense against missiles, torps, and bombs. I would also make is it 0 points, just like chips. The risk is you don't see ordnance, the reward is you do.

It's thematic, doesn't create errata, and now becomes part of list building choices.

Lastly, I tried for 2 years to make lists with missiles and torps worth it. They never were. Chips changed all that for the better.

Like Deadeye, Guidance Chips is of zero use to you once you have fired your ordnance. It's a one-shot wonder.

It's perfectly fine as is.

GC was made for ordnance that don‘t let you spend the TL for modifying dice.

Current ordnance let‘s you do that, so GC brings you full hits on ordnance, most of the time anyway. In that sense I can understand the sentiment.

However it‘s not a problem (yet), even with the ridiculous harpoons. We‘ll see how the meta adapts, and maybe GC will be the correct change (focus/hit instead of hit/crit maybe?)

3 hours ago, Herowannabe said:

...

Fix it until it is, I say we Nerf The Chimps!

7 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

Fix it until it is, I say we Nerf The Chimps!

NO NERF THE CHIMPS!

What is up with the Chimps hate?! This upgrade is awesome! If you don’t want to suffer against alpha strikes don’t blame the Chimps! Tech up with stuff that kills TLs or stay out of arc if you can or Alpha-class it up with strikes or jammers.

Or you can look the TIE Bombers and Punishers in their large child-like tearing eyes and say SCREW YOU! And when you do GUNBOAT will pay you a visit in the night.

Poe Black One or Countermeasures remove target locks. Higher PS shoots first. There is probably some other stuff I cant think of atm.

Better Asteroid placement and ship placement can force your opponent into 2 or 3 speed cruise shots that they may not take. Faking them out by going short/fast or fast/short to avoid range of missiles also can help.

Man, remember when people complained that Ordinance was worthless?

For, like, the first seven waves ?

8 minutes ago, Kijaucey said:

Poe Black One or Countermeasures remove target locks. Higher PS shoots first. There is probably some other stuff I cant think of atm.

Expert Handling was the original anti-TL tech. One that Youngster could totally exploit for TIE swarms.

11 minutes ago, Reiver said:

Man, remember when people complained that Ordinance was worthless?

For, like, the first seven waves ?

I think the issue is it went from worthless to amazing in a single wave. It needs to sit in a Goldilocks zone of being merely ok.

As I've said before: Bombs, turrets and ordnance should have a place in the game, but they shouldn't be the game.

I think the easy solution is you just ban guidance chips. It was released to give ordnance a buff, and it certainly no longer needs it. Even without it I still foresee ordnance being a solid choice (especially with all the other mods available to ships nowadays).

24 minutes ago, Reiver said:

Man, remember when people complained that Ordinance was worthless?

For, like, the first seven waves ?

Sort of like how X-wings were worthless, amiright?