General question...

How are people liking Harpoons so far?

Are Harpoons definitively better than Cruise Missiles when deciding what to take on a PS9+ Ace?

Pre-FAQ Harpoons were looking out right better with all the Biggs formations running around and low green dice turrets etc.

Post-FAQ it looks like there will be a slightly more balanced meta with a combo of decent agility ships and the same nukeable stuff as before. Or at minimum people will trick themselves into thinking Aces are as good as turrets and bombs now ( I dont think they are ).

So yea...Harpoons or Cruise Missiles?

Have we to quickly switched to Harpoons just because they are easier to use?

Or do we shy away from cruise missiles because they require slightly more skill to execute, and put aces into joust situations that leave them very vulnerable?

I guess Homing is still the best? Do reenforce tokens count as evade tokens? Should they?

UTERRLY FLIPPING ALSIDJFHAJSKDMVKCALMSDP;OVHSJNK ASININE UNNECCESARY POWER, RED-DICE, SWARM-OVERKILLING, AND COMPLEXITY CREEP

STUPID

I wonder if my tone was clear. ahem.

6 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

UTERRLY FLIPPING ALSIDJFHAJSKDMVKCALMSDP;OVHSJNK ASININE UNNECCESARY POWER, RED-DICE, SWARM-OVERKILLING, AND COMPLEXITY CREEP

STUPID

I wonder if my tone was clear. ahem.

Yes all those things. Strong insight much nuance. On the bright side deadeye poons fill the gap left in the meta by trip torp scouts

But is it really that much better than a homing missile or cruise?

8 minutes ago, Boom Owl said:

Yes all those things. Strong insight much nuance.

But is it really that much better than a homing missile or cruise?

Of course. Not even taking into consideration the AoE damage you can inflict with them, its a point cheaper than a Homing Missile. Not a lot of the heavy hitters in the meta have the evade action on their action bar, so the bonus of the HM is a moot point. Against cruise missiles, the Harpoon will just be way more reliable to fire. You don't have to rely on doing a +3 speed maneuver to get decent damage out of it. High PS pilots might still like CMs, but those will be few and far between. Honestly, I don't see a reason to run anything but Harpoons if you want to run a missile. Ion Pulse I guess if you really want some control.

Definitely some good old powercreep.

Eh it's really not that complex

God forbid we read rules, right?

It's not technically dice creep either, but the condition hitting the targeted ship gives it a concerning amount of single target damage

Haven't played it yet, but other locals have described as an absurd alpha.

ButThey also said they hadn't been able to get much out of the vaksai and SCURRG after firing one round of missiles off

Cruise is cheaper and might even throw 5, but you have to have a good enough dial to set it up.

Homing is a good way to make sure you slap soontir fel for a damage at least, and to get an extra damage in on evade token based ships, like the old falcon.

Harpoon is just a solid, reliable missile, that also happens to hose swarms if you run into one.

If fel and the other little bantamweight token stacker types make a comeback, then yeah homing, but otherwise harpoon. Cruise is more specialised than harpoon.

For one point more than a cruise missile you get 1 less maximum attack (4 instead of a possible 5), a high potential for splash damage or extra damage in later turns, and no speed requirement (meaning you can go a 1 or 2 speed and still throw 4 dice instead of being limited to just 2-3 dice). This is in addition to keeping your target lock.

It is better than the cruise missile, and the homing missile. Possibly the best missile in the game at this point simply because of the extra damage, keeping the target lock, and forcing your opponent to potentially fly to their own detriment (by forcing them to keep out of range-1 of their allies).

Maybe I am an oddball but I like concussion missiles more then cruise. The auto convert to hit and no movement restrictions were worth it to me.

Have not tried harpoon yet but I think I will like them.

24 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

UTERRLY FLIPPING ALSIDJFHAJSKDMVKCALMSDP;OVHSJNK ASININE UNNECCESARY POWER, RED-DICE, SWARM-OVERKILLING, AND COMPLEXITY CREEP

STUPID

I wonder if my tone was clear. ahem.

Basically, this.

22 minutes ago, Blail Blerg said:

UTERRLY FLIPPING ALSIDJFHAJSKDMVKCALMSDP;OVHSJNK ASININE UNNECCESARY POWER, RED-DICE, SWARM-OVERKILLING, AND COMPLEXITY CREEP

STUPID

I wonder if my tone was clear. ahem.

I love how much they're piquing my interest in other games that don't have Harpoon Missiles. So basically the sentiment above.

On the plus side, my Brewers are doing quite well in our GB Escalation league so a net gain for our fair city!

2 minutes ago, Simonsays3 said:

I love how much they're piquing my interest in other games that don't have Harpoon Missiles. So basically the sentiment above.

On the plus side, my Brewers are doing quite well in our GB Escalation league so a net gain for our fair city!

But do you play steve?!

Just now, spamdex said:

But do you play steve?!

Well I said they were doing well so....no

Just now, Simonsays3 said:

Well I said they were doing well so....no

Ive got pintpot ready to paint . Looking forward to playing him.

And also not to get off topic i havent tried harpoons yet but they are going in my next list.

Who do assualt missles compare with harpoons? Can anyone do the math?

They're really, really good.

Just now, spamdex said:

Ive got pintpot ready to paint . Looking forward to playing him.

And also not to get off topic i havent tried harpoons yet but they are going in my next list.

Who do assualt missles compare with harpoons? Can anyone do the math?

Pintpot is great, really excited for you to get him painted and on the field PM me if you want to see the one I put together.

But on the topic, they're just objectively better than other missiles, with the fringe case for Cruise Missiles in the right setup. Combined with cheap, effective carriers like the Scurrg, and an already small number of ships on the field and you've got an alpha dealing crazy amounts of damage that also happens to dampen the effectiveness of larger volumes of ships, pushing us towards higher PS alphas. Which is basically what the complaint was about Dengaroo for ages, except now there's even more ships that can do the same thing

8 minutes ago, gennataos said:

They're really, really good.

16 minutes ago, Simonsays3 said:

I love how much they're piquing my interest in other games that don't have Harpoon Missiles. So basically the sentiment above.

On the plus side, my Brewers are doing quite well in our GB Escalation league so a net gain for our fair city!

This and this.

--

I think the question Boom Owl wanted answering was are they good: exceptionally so.

Played 2 games against them and I already hate them as much as Scurggs. 3 Deadeye Loks with Harpoons are going to be far worse than Deadeye Scouts ever were.

Glad I'm in the same GB escalation league as Simonsays3, although Hunters are not for beginners.

I think Harpoons are pretty similar to Cruise Missiles in terms of power. Both let you keep the Target Lock, and for 33% more cost, the Harpoons give you splash damage and, importantly, as TheRabidAardvark pointed out, no restrictions on your dial. I think aces might now prefer these because of that added dial flexibility - I don’t think the Harpooned! condition is actually all that powerful - good, but not the sky is falling good.

That being said, I’m sticking with Cruise Missiles because they fit in my new favorite list ever:

Gamma Squadron Veteran (25) - TIE Bomber
Deadeye (1), Cruise Missiles (3), Extra Munitions (2), Guidance Chips (0)

x4

I think they're just plain better than any other missile. My current obsession is testing out Kylo + Harpoons effect. IE tag someone with ISYTDS, Harpoon them, then resolve a crit with someone like RAC Palp. That's two damage under shields (one which is a crit you picked out), plus the damage from the Harpoon initial, plus splash damage (if any), plus the damage from RAC. It seems pretty huge to me- it's a giant buff to RAC + Ace as they're main weakness was multiple ship lists. Works with RAC+Vader, QD, or Vynder.

3 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

I think Harpoons are pretty similar to Cruise Missiles in terms of power. Both let you keep the Target Lock, and for 33% more cost, the Harpoons give you splash damage and, importantly, as TheRabidAardvark pointed out, no restrictions on your dial. I think aces might now prefer these because of that added dial flexibility - I don’t think the Harpooned! condition is actually all that powerful - good, but not the sky is falling good.

That being said, I’m sticking with Cruise Missiles because they fit in my new favorite list ever:

Gamma Squadron Veteran (25) - TIE Bomber
Deadeye (1), Cruise Missiles (3), Extra Munitions (2), Guidance Chips (0)

x4

Love the list! Even if I hate the missile

I have to disagree about "Harpooned" - for me what puts them over the top is the whole "deal a damage card under your shields", as it's easy to get the needed crits with GC and on top of all that gives you splash damage. And all this happens after a 4 die attack that allows you to keep your TL. It's just so freaking good and can handle any number of threats!

Why would you ever bother to take anything else unless you're truly strapped for points?

With the condition, it's basically still a up to 5 damage from a single attack. Up to 4 damage is dealt by the initial hit, and then the fifth comes when the harpoon explodes. Even if you try to remove the harpoon, it's only a 50/50 chance that you'll do it without taking damage.

I don't think the triple Deadeye Loks are as bad as the triple Jumps, but they're close. No turret, no mech, only one green die, and their dial isn't as good, but they have a higher primary value and can still use their focus to modify the attack for better accuracy.

I do like Harpoons but there is a legit concern about them blowing up and causing damage to your own ships. I think it's underestimated, it's already happened to me.

I've been flying a couple of K-Fighters with them, and they get the Harpoons off (I pop Glitterstim the same turn to help keep them alive), but then drift with the greens. Then one usually drifts next to what I shot and my target explodes and damages my own ship.

Plus, trying to stay in range two when it's only natural to try and get into range one is a hassle.

I honestly think Concussion missiles are underrated. Harpoons are better, but if you have three ships firing missiles in an alpha strike I almost wonder if the third ship should fire Concussions (so long as they can get a crit from GC).

I think they need to either sped the TL to fire, or make them 5 points. Otherwise, they are fine....except they screw swarms....which is not fine as they are already hurting.

I'm pretty sure they are included in the Guns for Hire Expansion pack as their Imperial "Autothrusters" card so Imp pilots will purchase one; I did. But, don't tell anyone, I'll admit, I just simply love flying Kyraxeraxeseres' and I'm really looking forward to...err, um; well, please excuse that scummy bunny trail.

I think they were really designed and intended for the new Gunboat with that cool slam/shoot/reload/slam/shoot missile Title; but putting that bugger on any missile carrier with a good dial is going to be solid, and make pilots fly a bit scared and separated...and man, Slam just makes OK dials very good, and keep on reloading, and slam, I'm gonna wager.

It actually is more of a double edged sword than I originally thought.

Your Harpoon hits, follow-up attack fails to deal a crit or finish off the enemy ship, and suddenly that enemy ship is the equivalent of Deadman's Switch, ready to dial in a move to detonate in your face.

It actually seems worse at dealing splash damage to a Swarm than Assault Missiles, since it relies on a follow-up attack or killing the target ship. But obviously Assault Missiles is more niche, less accurate, more expensive, doesnt have a chance to deal additional damage to the defender, and overall a card that never has or never will see competitive play.

I think with Harpoon they did what they had to do to make a splash damage missile that could be picked competitively. Missiles were pretty bad off compared to torps, anyways.