Timings

By yujufrazer, in Legend of the Five Rings: The Card Game

So one of the biggest issues with the game im having is determining when certain reactions can be triggered. Is there a nice picture diagram with the Framework steps with tabs showing you when you can trigger, winning conflict reasons, winning ring reactions, When the conflict actually starts, does it happen when the player assigns his first attacker/does it start when both attackers and defenders have been assigned/province flipped/when the conflict action window happens?

Id like to have a better understanding of all this so i dont have to keep asking a ton of questions for each card and when its reaction can be used.

i noticed the spies at court vs display of power so that got me thinking about all these other card reactions. Like what happens when hida kisada runs in to the Unicorn province, has the battle already started so he can cancel the action, or has it not and he will die?

Also if there is a specific place i should be asking all these rules questions that would be nice to know as well :) i dont wanna keep spamming them here if im not suppose to.

The unicorn province is a reaction. Hide targets the first action so he couldn't trigger off that.

I'm working on laying out a diagram myself, nothing fancy, but helps me understand the timings. There are numerous rules for prioritization of simultaneous mandatory abilities that the rules reference doesn't specify the priority (constant abilities that seek an "if", forced abilities, keywords, delayed effects), and there's other words/rules that affect priority.

Many abilities trigger off of 'framework' triggering conditions, and it would help if those were specified, for example "winning a conflict" is determined when you 'compare skill values'.

A triggering condition of 'playing an event card' actually occurs prior to the resolution of the event's effect itself.

Interrupts that 'cancel' a triggering condition, and "would" abilities (mostly replacement effects), that change a triggering condition don't allow further interrupts to be played against that triggering condition. However, all other replacement effects still allow interrupts to be played against that triggering condition (all other cards with "instead").

These are some of the nuance of timing. I'm still working on it, and still have a question out to the dev team for simultaneous resolutions. In the meantime, it wouldn't be a bad idea to look at all the cards that have a 'framework' triggering condition, and marking on your framework steps where those occur. Once you look at all the cards, you'll see it's only a handful of actual framework triggering conditions that you'd need to know (so far).

When asked about putting in play vegefull oathkeeper inside the conflit, Nate French he answered this: " You can out the Oathkeeper into the conflict, however, doing so will not change the unopposed status. Unopposed is determined at the time skill is counted." http://www.cardgamedb.com/forums/index.php?/topic/37237-vengeful-oathkeeper-vs-unopposed-conflict/

Note that in the diagram on rules reference it show this:

3.2 Declare conflict.
3.2.1 Declare defenders.
3.2.2 CONFLICT ACTION WINDOW
(Defender has first opportunity)
3.2.3 Compare skill values.
3.2.4 Apply unopposed.

3.2.5 Break province.

So, by this logic, we can presume that any reaction like "after you win (or loose) a conflict..." will happen in 3.2.4, before breaking the province.

15 minutes ago, L5RBr said:

When asked about putting in play vegefull oathkeeper inside the conflit, Nate French he answered this: " You can out the Oathkeeper into the conflict, however, doing so will not change the unopposed status. Unopposed is determined at the time skill is counted." http://www.cardgamedb.com/forums/index.php?/topic/37237-vengeful-oathkeeper-vs-unopposed-conflict/

Note that in the diagram on rules reference it show this:

3.2 Declare conflict.
3.2.1 Declare defenders.
3.2.2 CONFLICT ACTION WINDOW
(Defender has first opportunity)
3.2.3 Compare skill values.
3.2.4 Apply unopposed.

3.2.5 Break province.

So, by this logic, we can presume that any reaction like "after you win (or loose) a conflict..." will happen in 3.2.4, before breaking the province.

Per the RR, the winner of the conflict is determined at 3.2.3. So the reaction window to this triggering condition occurs after 3.2.3, but before 3.2.4 .

16 minutes ago, L5RBr said:

When asked about putting in play vegefull oathkeeper inside the conflit, Nate French he answered this: " You can out the Oathkeeper into the conflict, however, doing so will not change the unopposed status. Unopposed is determined at the time skill is counted." http://www.cardgamedb.com/forums/index.php?/topic/37237-vengeful-oathkeeper-vs-unopposed-conflict/

Note that in the diagram on rules reference it show this:

3.2 Declare conflict.
3.2.1 Declare defenders.
3.2.2 CONFLICT ACTION WINDOW
(Defender has first opportunity)
3.2.3 Compare skill values.
3.2.4 Apply unopposed.

3.2.5 Break province.

So, by this logic, we can presume that any reaction like "after you win (or loose) a conflict..." will happen in 3.2.4, before breaking the province.

Nope, Nate's answer means that the skill count in 3.2.3 determines what happens in 3.2.4. Reactions to winning (or losing) a conflict, even an unopposed one are still triggered after 3.2.3.

right now i see cards that react of being in a conflict, when you win a conflict, and such, so it would be nice to see like a bubble, that says conflict starts here <--- you can use reactions of those types from here to --->. for each condition. So in the above example it would be like during conflict reactions can be used from 3.2- 3.2.5 While cards that react off of winning would be used after 3.2.3 but before 3.2.4 (**KEEP IN MIND IM NOT SAYING THIS IS THE OFFICIAL RULING JUST GIVING AN EXAMPLE**)

Just speaking for my self, id think that the conflict actually starts when the action window beggins, but some other people could say they thing it begins as soon as the attacker picks the province (which i could also see.)

Also noob question i see RR every where whats it stand for?