Spies at Court X Display of Power

By L5RBr, in Legend of the Five Rings: The Card Game

I choose this for example, but the real question is when exactly you play the reactions that says "after you win (or loose) a conflict..."

Reading the learn to play it seems to be after booth players passed their actions and the count of skills were made. So is this correct? In this case you can play spies at court before display of power, the first player resolve his reaction first?

It wouldn't matter if Display of Power triggered first. Display of Power lets you win the ring as if you had won the conflict but the opposing player is still winning the conflict since you are losing 1 honor for it being unopposed. So you could still trigger Spies at the Court after the other player reacted with Display of Power.

Spies of court should trigger first 3.2.3, then Display of Power 3.2.4.

The timing definitely matters when Spies triggers because the effect could potentially knock Display of Power out of their hand before they could trigger it.

spdp.jpg

Edited by Kantorek
34 minutes ago, ElSuave said:

It wouldn't matter if Display of Power triggered first. Display of Power lets you win the ring as if you had won the conflict but the opposing player is still winning the conflict since you are losing 1 honor for it being unopposed. So you could still trigger Spies at the Court after the other player reacted with Display of Power.

If you trigger spies at court first you can randomly discard your opponent display of Power...

I Just pick this as an example it can be other cases like the new Lion tactician, If you use his reaction before the province break you can draw a for greater glory to use..

4 minutes ago, Kantorek said:

Spies of court should trigger first 3.2.3, then Display of Power 3.2.4.

The timing definitely matters when Spies triggers because the effect could potentially knock Display of Power out of their hand before they could trigger it.

spdp.jpg

Display triggers when you lose a conflict unopposed which is actually 3.2.3. 3.2.4 is just when losing the conflict unopposed is penalized.

Edited by GoblinGuide

Ahh okay. I thought OP was worried whether or not Display of Power triggering first would cancel out Spies at the Court. Both are available for activation but 1st player would be able to trigger first.

2 minutes ago, GoblinGuide said:

Display triggers when you lose a conflict unopposed which is actually 3.2.3. 3.2.4 is just when losing the conflict unopposed is penalized.

If that is the case, then the player with the "First Player Token" gets first chance to react.

Page 13 of RRG on Reactions:

"Within the reaction window, the first player always has the first opportunity to initiate an eligible reaction (to the triggering condition that opened the window), or pass. Opportunities to initiate an eligible reaction, or pass, continue to alternate between the players until all players consecutively pass, at which point the reaction window closes. Passing does not prevent a player from initiating an eligible reaction later in that same reaction window."

As was said, these are both reactions to the same triggering condition, and they both use the word "after", so first player gets to choose which resolves first. If one would say "after you win" and one said "when you win", the "when" would resolve first. One interesting thing to note is that first player has priority to play a reaction, but even if they pass and the opponent plays a reaction, they can still then play their reaction and choose for theirs to resolve first. Not a big deal here, but could be important for the first player to know that they don't have to 'beat' their opponent to play something first.

But if they pass that opportunity window and the first player didn't do anything in their first reaction window, they don't get to go back and do something either. Rather than saying the first player chooses the order, they have the first opportunity to play and resolve reaction abilities.

57 minutes ago, LuceLineGames said:

As was said, these are both reactions to the same triggering condition, and they both use the word "after", so first player gets to choose which resolves first. If one would say "after you win" and one said "when you win", the "when" would resolve first. One interesting thing to note is that first player has priority to play a reaction, but even if they pass and the opponent plays a reaction, they can still then play their reaction and choose for theirs to resolve first. Not a big deal here, but could be important for the first player to know that they don't have to 'beat' their opponent to play something first.

That's actually not true. The 1st player doesn't get to choose which resolves first, whichever one is played first resolves first. The first player does get the first opportunity to use a reaction, but if they pass and their opponent plays a reaction that reaction resolves in full before the reaction window goes back to the first player.

I guess, for anyone who played MtG, this is not like 'triggered abilities' from an event going on the stack (which went on the LIFO stack, going on the stack in turn order, and thus resolving in reverse turn order). Instead, they're abilities that are activated and resolved in full, with the first player having the first opportunity to react to each event.

It's worth noting though, that in practicality, I don't see players pausing to pass priority after each potential event window, given that literally anything can be a reaction prompt. It'll typically go: Player wins unopposed conflict. Both players declare they want to play a card in response, then they back up and go through player order.

17 minutes ago, AradonTemplar said:

I guess, for anyone who played MtG, this is not like 'triggered abilities' from an event going on the stack (which went on the LIFO stack, going on the stack in turn order, and thus resolving in reverse turn order). Instead, they're abilities that are activated and resolved in full, with the first player having the first opportunity to react to each event.

It's worth noting though, that in practicality, I don't see players pausing to pass priority after each potential event window, given that literally anything can be a reaction prompt. It'll typically go: Player wins unopposed conflict. Both players declare they want to play a card in response, then they back up and go through player order.

If you are second player and playing DoP, you should probably ask "Do you have any reactions to winning this conflict?"

2 hours ago, GoblinGuide said:

That's actually not true. The 1st player doesn't get to choose which resolves first, whichever one is played first resolves first. The first player does get the first opportunity to use a reaction, but if they pass and their opponent plays a reaction that reaction resolves in full before the reaction window goes back to the first player.

Is this for the interrupt window as well? So is the simultaneous resolution only for the forced abilities and other mandatory abilities?

One interesting thing about this is, your opponent cant play display of Power after you play For greater glory. (Attacking void for example).

10 hours ago, LuceLineGames said:

Is this for the interrupt window as well? So is the simultaneous resolution only for the forced abilities and other mandatory abilities?

Yes. In an interrupt window, the first player gets the first opportunity to trigger a relevant interrupt, then it goes back and forth until both players pass consecutively.

@AradonTemplar However, interrupt and reaction windows nest and behave like a stack.