When I first read the Psyker rules, I was a little outraged at the possibility of Perils of the Warp inherent in every Psy use. I thought it meant you couldnt mimic Ravenor (a favourite book at the time) who uses Psychic powers near constantly.

But having now run some games of DH with a psyker, I have to say I see the huge advantage of Perils. It stops the Psyker from completely dominating the game. If you could use psychic powers without restriction, then pyskers would have an incredible advantage over everyone, being able to augment themselves, avoid using Fate Points, heal at will, and generally totally screw with the great mass of human opponents. Without Perils, everyone would be a psychic

But throw in Perils, and those psyker players carefully husband their powers. The can bring the magic when they really need to, but they are more likely to suggest exhausting all other avenues before resorting to psychic powers, which is something I like to see in an investigation game. Further more the pyskers are genuinely reviled and suspected by the other PC's (certainly in my game) since they all know that each Psycker is potentially a walking bomb that will one day kill them.

Even better is the concept of the Faustian pact the non-Psychic PC's make with the Psyker PC's. They really dont want him with them, he's a huge potential liablity, but since he has "Healer" and thats the fastest way to come back from Heavily Wounded, then they do need him, much as they hate them.

So, as a player I hated Perils of the Warp, since I thought it limited my character from being a Ravenor. As a GM I love Perils as it mechanically reinforces the perceived hatred, danger and instability of Psykers in play as its represented in the background.

Anyone else have a similar Damascene conversion?

SJE

The psyker in my game is wonderful. So far he's avoided making it blatantly obvious that he's one (though a few signs are there) and is generally very sparing with his powers. The other acolytes are reasonably okay with his presence, though that's mainly because he's often the voice of reason (hah) in the cell. That said, the assassin still did ask for information on dealing with psykers from his Inquisitor. He got a pamphlet with exerts from a commissarial handbook.

SJE said:

Personally I would have preferred a far more subtle system for psykers, one in which involved the seductivity of the power and the malefic attention that this might egender. The "roll to see if your head explodes/your explode someones head near you/you get possessed, please roll up another character" just doesn't strike me as the most imaginative approach to have taken, though it looks quite functional in terms of "balance."

(Then again I was kind of expecting the Dark Heresy psyker system to perfectly nail down just what it was like to be a psyker. I was disappointed, thus forced to continue to develop a separate approach, but once again that doesn't mean that I'm saying it is bad. (One has to be very careful of such assertions...))

Kage

Really Kage, must we be careful of such things? *looks around for T.S.* I don't think the system is 'bad' if you're looking for 'balance' and some rules meant to make the Psyker pay for being the perverbal bad ass, (I'm still waiting to see if there is going to be a 'Geneseed Perils' in Deathwatch to make the SM more balanced... ) Personally I do't think the Psyker system represents the function of the warp and psykers as I envision it, which isn't to say it doesn't ring the bell of others. ANd no offense is meant to T.S. nor the DH design team I was just expecting something a little more than the WFRP2 Magic system which is one of the main reason the group I game with NEVER made the switch, we tried v2 and found it made more problems than it 'fixed' from our house ruled v1 WFRP.

That said however, I tottally see from a design standpoint where people whine and ***** about how 'unfair' x or y is without just playing with a non-munchkin group, how you must create such an artificial system to 'balance' things. I do not though think it portrays the milue of the 40,000 setting by engineering an fostering an enviorment where the PLAYERS want to gank the psyker becasue 'some werid ****' might happen. Most of the characters probly couldn't tell a techpriest and their 'magek' from a psyker, nor tell a psyker from someone with a digital weapon. BLah BLah. Anyone, not a fan of the Psyker system when I saw it in WFRP not a fan of it now. But I do recognise the 'need' from a marketing and design point.

Kage2020 said:

I think the problem there, though, is that a system of subtle corruption/addiction/etc doesn't really act as a "balancing" deterrent. Or, rather, if it's too subtle, it might not pose a sufficiently large threat to the psyker for the player to reconsider the use of his powers. While that's great from a narrative perspective, it's not particularly good from a game balance perspective (for a given definition of game balance).

Risk mechanisms as a balancing factor are tricky to get right, IMO - too much or too little risk compared to the reward, and things break down because the character will either never want to use his powers, or the risk never acts as a sufficient deterrent to prevent power overuse.

It worked out somewhat better in the earlier drafts of Dark Heresy (at least in theory - we never actually saw the Phenomenon or Perils tables before the rewrite) - Psychic Phenomena (minor effects that make it very clear that something strange is happening; the result of excess warpstuff getting loose with the psychic power and influencing the world in unnatural ways) always happened as standard, but Perils only really occurred if you screwed up using your power. Through training, and with a little surplus success on the power roll, a character could "finesse" his use of a power to remove the Psychic Phenomena that accompanied his power. Some powers were too blunt and unsubtle to be finessed in this way, but the majority of powers could benefit from this. Equally, corruption was an inherent risk associated with power use, but one which could be mitigated to an extent by a sufficiently well-trained psyker under certain circumstances.

SJE said:

In short, yes.

While a full, complex, set of rules for psychic powers could be used it would overcomplicate what is essentially a fairly simple system. For me, they still get an entire chapter's worth and separate rules, but don't become something totally disonnected witht he rest of the game engine. Also the high risk of something going wrong encourages them to use their powers saringly and keeps most players on an even playing field. If you want everyone to be zapping people left right and centre with their minds, then, for me, DH's the wrong game for you.

Just my opinion. But as someone who's got 2 psykers in a group of 5 players both of whom have taken 'weaken (i can never spell it)' I'm sure there'll be plenty of events and insanity points to boot!

SJE said:

I'm tending to agree these days.

I also wanted to see psykers of the Ravenor/Eisenhorn calibre, but maybe that's just not something Acolytes do. Maybe later...

As for the effect of Perils, you have to write rules-systems that keep the rules-lawyers in check. Good roleplayers keep themsleves in check, and its a bit of a shame that systems always tend towards the lowest-common-denominator, but I guess good roleplayers deserve 'house rules'

Karmatech said:

Ravenor would be, IMO, WPB 6, Psy Rating 5, with Power Well (x2), Discipline Focus (Telepathy), Psychic Supremacy (Telepathy) (see Disciples of the Dark Gods, p26) and Mastery of Telepathy. He's probably got Favoured by the Warp as well, just to be on the safe side when he needs to go all out. His Chair additionally contains various psy-boosting technologies, but we'll focus on the basics already laid out.

Most difficult Telepathy power in the game is Seed Mind (DotDG, page 30), with a Threshold of 26. This is reduced to 16 by his Mastery of the Discipline, Before rolling, Gideon Ravenor has a static bonus of +10 (WPB 6, +2 for Power Well x2, +2 for Discipline Focus), meaning that he will, with one dice, succeed in using Seed Mind 50% of the time. If he used Invocation beforehand, that's up to +15, meaning you need a 1+ on 1 dice to succeed at the power.

Thanks to Psychic Supremacy, when using 2 or fewer dice (half or less of his maximum number of dice), he ignores the first 9 rolled for the purposes of Psychic Phenomena, so when rolling 1 dice, there is no chance whatsoever of suffering Psychic Phenomena or Perils of the Warp, and only a 1% chance of suffering them when rolling 2 dice (you have to roll 2 9s, because the first one gets ignored).

I think that's pretty damned powerful...

Also remember that Ravenor's psychic duels did produce a lot of ambient side-effects - frost forming, windows shattering, etc - which is what Psychic Phenomena represent.

Ravenor sits at the upper end of the power spectrum achievable within the Dark Heresy rules... but he's still achievable within it.

Of course, Psychic Supremacy is not available as standard in any career path or alternate rank, and thus may only be acquired with express permission from your GM at a cost of his choosing... I'd recommend no less than 500xp, and I don't honestly think i'd consent to give access to it to my players in the first place. It is, afterall, a very potent talent...

One of the biggest differences between the books and actually having a system for roleplaying is, that most authors didn't and don't have a rulebook to say what thier characters can and can't do. (Plus some of thier plots don't call for such thinking, as it would bog down the story they wish to write.) In other words: Balance. It's needed with a fair system for long term use, but not needed when you're just writing about your heros (or matryrs/ cannon fodder) for entertainment purposes and no one is going to secondguess it.

The big thing with WHFRP and DH is that they have used the whole source of pyschik/magik powers as coming from one place: Chaos/The Warp. Whether you use your dark funny laugh-cackle powers, or your medic! powers to help/hinder someone it's all from the same source and doesn't have any 'pure evil or 'pure good' monkier attached to it. Most books don't go ito that so all thier characters just do whatever they want, with the only consequence being someone going: Why doesn't everyone just do that then? (Blame writers, even canon is full of inconsistencies because of a lack of guidelines. Personally I think any writer for an already established project, needs a rosetta stone of sorts, for what characters could be capalbe of. I've always done better with 'restictions' put upon me, as it helps me find new ways to do things, and remember where I'm coming from. Yeah any joe blow can write about Warhammer 40K if they played the wargame and/or figured out the old codexs, but that's not the same as writing about the whys and why nots. It's not explained in any of that.)

So here you have novels full of stories with Mr. Super psyker Imperial army/commisariat, Astartes Chaplain/Libraian of doom and boom, and Eldar Incarnates etc, that use psy powers like it's an aphrodesiac. Funny thing is though, once you take out the entertainment factors and plots, it's actually ridiculous. (as far a roleplaying games go, as we all wish we were superheroes of a sort) For the most part if any of them were that powerful and had an almost nil chance of failure they'd be on a tight leash sequestered under guard for the duration, let alone getting poked and prodded (or in an Eldars case, booted out), by thier superiors who'd be fearing thier almost Emperor-like perfection and mastery over things that go bump in the warp...There's a reason certain psy chapter of the Astartes were banned or are in near extinction. (and why the Eldar race fuzzed out) There's generally a reason why so many people, psyker and non pysker, get all tainted after a while.

So now there's we, the roleplayers. We have more lasting consequences, and have to find a way to interact with the world and other NPCs and characters. Can we all just write, but I'm a psyker, and I want to call up my sense taint, super-duper body explode without a bolter ray and win-the-girl seduce powers? Well yeah...but what the heck is the point? So in come the perils of the warp. And yes it does work, as far as balance goes. As said it works, it's not perfect, but something has to come with the extra oommph it brings. Otherwise just stick to being a non psyker. They don't have to worry about the perils fo the warp coming from themselves too much for a reason...they don't tap into it at will. Again there's your balance for them. Until this can be proven different (and even laws of physics can be broken or bent.), every action has an equal or opposite reaction....even in the warp. But the fun part about that is, it could be the same reaction, that's why it's chaos!

Oh, it's not that I think that T.S.Luikart would find articulate criticism to be a problem, since he would articulate reply with reasoned design considerations that most would go, "Oh, okay. I wouldn't do that myself, but I see why you did it." I just wanted to avoid the idea that because I don't agree with the stance that Dark Heresy took that I'm bringing down some hate-fest on it.

Perhaps the most articulate defense of the idea of balance that I've seen, so thanks for that NH. The "failures," insofar as one might consider them failures, are just that–they are obviously a game balance element than a narrative element that might, arguably, conform more readily to the 40k universe. In that universe should psykers just be more about "head popping" or "seduction?"

That absence is my only real criticism since, after all, I'm interested more in the narrative effects. (Being someone that doesn't use the system, thus it's not a criticism of the system!)

Aye, I can definitely see that. It's one of the reasons that I've been wrangling about "power levels" of psykers in my own interpretation of 40k RPG, as flawed as it might be. This is one of the reasons that I've been having that trouble, or basically balancing how much a psyker might use their powers before they begin to "abuse" their powers. And, of course, what are the effects of that abuse. While "Psychic Phenomenon" are an entirely cool and thematic part of the universe, the more extreme "Perils of the Warp," at least the higher levels, seem to fail for me. This is the point that I want to see "seduction." I want to see Sanctioned Psykers that are terrified of dipping too strongly into the warp, or another reason that Astropaths "burn out" and age quickly because they are constantly being used to dip into that warp more than they might otherwise be inclined.

Of course, the other problem that I run into is what one might arguably refer to as the "hyperbole" of GW flavour text. Just how bloomin' powerful are the different Grades of psykers, and how does that buy into the specific agenda/conceit of level-based progress?

Now that's interesting, because that's exactly what I've been trying to work within when it comes down to an interpretation of 40K RPG moderated by GURPS (I know that you find that system bland, but I still maintain flavour is a storytelling thing!). I've been toying around with certain enhancements tying into "Taint," while others are based purely on how much you use them. Of course, in this we get into the standard balancing act again. That is, you begin to "punish" the use of aggressive powers...

Thanks for the fascinating p;ost, N0-1_H3r3...

I have an inherent resistance against this comment since, as someone that tries to focus on the narrative, differentiating it and the rules makes me slightly... twitchy. Of course, I realise the hypocrisy of this statement since I am not a fan of the whole GNS thing and narrativism, but... Well, at least I realise it!

Yeah, that is, to me, pretty much one of the problems. And the funny thing is that, if you don't agree with any one particular image—40k seems to be an array of imagery—if you don't agree with one thing, then you're marginalised as "not 40k.". The purview of the game design seems to allow this, since even the statement of one of the game designers took this stance (reasonable as it was), despite the balance of the evidence that supported idiosyncratic approaches.

Doesn't this support the stance that just because you're a powerful character that you're going to use that power? This is one of the things that I was talking about when I referenced the lack of subtlety. It's almost as if the assumption is that the players are going to be "munchkins" and balance is predicated upon that factor.

If you will forgive me, your suggestion is that if you feel that the game mechanics don't quite work, then remove psykers from the game?

Kage

I don't suppose DotDG has anything in it about the Hetaireia Lexis?

Kage2020 said:

1.) Oh quite the opposite, I was simply going off the examples in this thread of people saying what they had read in several of the 40K novels, with a certain pysker or two involved, who always display nearly infalluable abilities with thier powers. People tend to use examples as 'fact' sometimes is all. and they want to immulate what they see as someone able to do. I was just comparing that to what the roleplaying game offers so far. Plenty of other books with psykers as simply a secondary character etc, show the other spectrum though.

2.) Throne no! I'm simply saying that don't use the bloody novels with pyskers as ones main source of 'but why can't I use my powers without fail like they do?' I play a Savant Militant myself and I love it. Especially when I miss my rolls and things get sidetracked or far worse. (Bit moreso when the plan comes together) Even the best intentions have bad results after all. You just get to see it on a different level besides jamming your weapon or the like. Not having the perils of the warp loses that same feeling you get when you roll the die to make a piloting check on a black ship overun by a ruined hive tyrant (don't ask, but we didn't fight it...way beyond us, but luckily plan um...F worked. As A, B, C, D and E were all the same.), or making that ballistics test against a hiver thug. Again, no no and no. Never said to get rid of it. Just for people to realise psy powers don't = better characters or easy cards. They = same thing with different results. Usually anyways...hard to know when you're going to get sucked into the warp just because you fouled up on your rolls wiith your pants down

He also might reply, "GW invariably gets what GW wants - regardless of whether T.S. thinks it is a good idea or not."

I think you'd like a whole other set of ideas I had for psychic abilities, Kage. Far more in line with attributes you've indicated you would have liked to have seen for psyker abilities, slowly creeping taint and so forth...

My working title for it is the "Luminosity" system - the idea is the more power a psyker draws, the brighter they become in the warp, invariably drawing more and more of the "wrong" attention. By avoiding using their powers, a psyker allows their spirit to grow "dimmer" lessening their danger... for a time.

Still playing with it.

Personally both in WFRP and in Dh I like the Perils - I find it fits in perfectly with how I see the universes working.

Def better than the 1st ed WFRP system - boring Magic Points and none of the danger thats in the fluff.....................

just IMHO...........

I like the way Perils works.

I have 3 Psykers in Two separate groups. In Team Asskick the Psyker has been awfully reticent to use his powers because he knows how bad they COULD go. As it is he still got hit with a double doomer (rolled a 9 fate point rolled a 9) and ended up giving himself the same Fear rating as a greater deamon, and also causing every reflective surface within 50M of himself ripple.

The Healer in Team Investigatey never Ever uses her powers unless she has her one single fatepoint. She risked it the other day, when it was desperate, but only after really debating whether it was worth it.

The other Psyker with his 4 fate points is a little more blaze about using his powers. He's also built more for assaulting the enemy with his powers. He is however also aware of the inherent dangers and totally refuses to use them when he has no fate points... Even so a double Doomer turned up the other day and He managed to set his own blood on fire.

Thematically for me this is right. You are thrusting part of your brain into the Warp to draw power to circumvent the Laws of physics. Thats the warp where deamons that consider you a tasty chew toy live.

Liked it from the start... some players just cant do subtle corruption or there isnt always time to do a "slowly slowly creeping corruption" plot line in game due to campaign length, or lack of it...

TS Luikart said:

If only it wasn't like that where I work. Ultimately it's not the novelty or "brightness" of the idea, just the person that is selling it. I've seen a department dedicated to education step back from a program of education for no reason that I can see, but in the name of education.

Jolly good show, chaps...

TS Luikart said:

Yep, that basically seems to be exactly it. Remember that I bought Dark Heresy to support "40k RPG" and to get inspiration on psyker systems, so it was pretty disappointing when I saw them.

My own interpretation, since I'm working with another game system, basically seems to mirror what you're suggesting, or counter suggesting, here. You use your powers and you draw energy. Past a certain point it begins to make you "bright," which increases your chances of something happening or some gribbly coming for you. Dial back on your powers and you grow "dim." Of course, you're never going to lose the "sickly green light" once you've stepped beyond that point.

TS Luikart said:

Suffice to say that I would love to see it when you get around to letting others know about it, if you ever do. The only thing that still gets me is the question of "power level" of Grades. <sigh>

Kage

This is simmilar to what I've been doing as well with my Psychic system rewrite. I think I am the only person who dislikes the 2d6 Charts from the TT games having made their way into the RPGs. I've never stopped playing with the v1 rules of WFRP re: Magic and have never had trouble with 'power gamers' or balence, in fact in most systems of RPGs the Mystic/Mage/Wizard/Psykers ALWAYS get the shaft by comparsion to the 'Tanks' and warriors all in the name of precious 'balance'.

my problem with the 1st ed WFRP magic was the blandness and ease of it - I wanted a more CoC style magic system as that seemed to be more what WFRP had in common rather than D+D.

So the 2nd edition struck the right note for me - and am pretty happy with DH ones............

"My own interpretation, since I'm working with another game system, basically seems to mirror what you're suggesting, or counter suggesting, here. You use your powers and you draw energy. Past a certain point it begins to make you "bright," which increases your chances of something happening or some gribbly coming for you. Dial back on your powers and you grow "dim." Of course, you're never going to lose the "sickly green light" once you've stepped beyond that point."

I am not sure how this really differs from the present system that much - the more power you draw the riskier it gets ? I guess I am probably missing something here?

Its interesting that you bring up CoC becasue you could have an almost exact BRP CoC experience with the v1 system by simply asigning IPs & or CPs to the spells. Viola you now have a CoC esque magic system. The problem I have with both the DH and v2 System is that while great for 'balance' (and by balance I mean tying the hands of one type of chacter archtype to appease the potential bitching and moaning of another) it doesn't quite work for from a narative nor from a very plausible 'in universe' type of angle let alone being congruant with the established source material.

Which is where I think Kage is going and where I know I am. The real established drawback with 'magic' in the Warhammer verse(s) has always been as you've noted the CoC esque slide towards madness and risk of coruption, magic/wizards/psykers while posing risks and dangers are far more subtle in their danger than the mecanics of the rules often depict them. Why would the Imperium allow potential Daemon hosts to just stroll about, why would the Inquisition employ such high risk individuals? Why are so many Inquisitors (most) themselves Psykers if they themselves are the greater risk to the Imperium and the stabiliity of the materium than the 'ïa ïa' crying cultists? Its pretty bloody absurd.

However while the constant internal strugle against the risk of falling into the abyss makes for great background, its not so great for keeping the munchkins in check, however personally for me and my groups that's a job we've always left to the GM not to the whims of mass market pandering designers (and I know this sounds as if I'm slagging the designers -- not my intent only that games MUST be made to be 'balanced' or more aptly apeal to what a vast majority of players feel is balanced otherwise it won't sell or will be called out for its 'poor design'.)

Its more than evident that a majority of DH players think Psykers are broke as hell and can wipe the floor with or run circles around all other Careers, most feel that having a chart full of weird little occurences that mostly represnt the effects generated by a single character from a single series of 40,000 novelisations is brilliant. Most think the idea of having your mates putting a few into the brainpan of your psyker character makes for a real 'grimdark' experience, and that its cool that the 1 in a 1,000,000,000 Psyker trained and tested for 6-16 harrowing years only has an XX% chance of becomming a Daemon Host while the Nascent Psyker/Wytch/Renegade/Untrained Psyker has that same chance. That's more than clear by the numerous threads that have sprung up in the years since DH has been out. Which goes to show that thsystem does indeed work. Its pleased the majority of players, it 'balances' the Careers, and its 'fun'.

It does not however accurately portray how a majority of novels, and background material detail psykers functioning within the Warhammer 40,000 setting, and that is where the disconnect seems to lay for some, albeit the minority, of players.

interesting points thanks

I see what you are saying but I am presently happy with the Perils table / system as a tool I admit I would probably not use it all the time (or keep the results to first table at most) if the psyker is trying to achieve minor things in easily controlled situations but if he/she is not in that sort of environment then yeah I do

the aspect I meant from CoC was the san loss for delving into the "forbidden" - I guess I never liked the simple magic points systems (one of the very few things I don't like about d100 systems along with fatigue points and a few minor things) and it may well be that your method represents this better - if so be very intersted in seeing it

However many of the novels/ fluff I read (just enjoyed Cains Last Stand - very nice) do imply that most psykers (Except the really good ones like Marines) are dangerous to all - especially in combat situations and the POW does help that.......and that the Imperium really does not trust them at all hence they are usually under someones supervision unless the Holy Inquisiton (or other major power) decides to ignore that rule - for good or ill.

Its probably different playing expereinces - in games I have run / been in - the potential danger of the perils of the warp etc has always been played up and really made the players think about when to use and not to use their powers. For instance the last game I ran had the players on wolrd that Chaos was taking adn they were some of the last survivors so the very nature of the world around them was becoming increasingly easier to use the warp but more dangerous to do so............made the psyker very nervous when I kept reminding him that it was much easier to call on his powers.

I will admit that I do fudge rolls for dramatic effect and to try to acoid the you all die because of one lucky / unlucky roll syndrome - but I will also use narrative rather than game mechinaics as well to pubnish and reward players............

It may also be that the narrative/cinematic (sod the rules if they are in the way) style I prefer means I have found less problems than others.

TS Luikart said:

Thanks for posting this TS. I'd love to see this when you get it farther along because this sounds interesting.

I like the Psychic Phenomena Table. I think that is a nice touch. A little drastic on the upper end though if only using low level powers. Not sure why a low level power should be able to end up with a Peril of the Warp, but it should have some possible negative effect. I thought it should be based on the power level used / Target number required for success. Some way to use those to adjust the roll up or down to come up with the effect. I also thought it shouldn't happen on every 9. That makes a 1 in 10 chance. You have the ability to mitigate that by dropping dice from the pool which helps. What I thought should be done with the Perils though was use that for "pushing" your power. Need more dice to hit that target number? Sure. We'll just make you roll on the table with a modifier. The consequences are that you might draw attention of the warp powers that put you onto the Perils Table, but you can definitely have more dice. How many would you like?

Game wise, you end up with one continuous table with modifiers to it and you roll on it every time. At the low end there is no effect and as you go up, it gets worse until you transit into the Perils. Modifiers would look something along the lines of:

Power Dice rolled: Table Modifier
1: -10
2: -5
3: 0
4: +5
5: +10
6: +20

Target Number: Table Modifier
1-5: 0
6-10: +5
11-15: +10
16-20: +15
21-25: +20
26+: +30

Extra Dice: Table Modifier (effect)
1: +15 (1d10 IP)
2: +30 (1d5 CP)
3: +45 (1d10 CP)
4: +60 (2d10 CP)
5: +75 (3d10 CP)
6: +90 (4d10 CP)

I haven't worked out the table yet or tested it to see how it works. It might be too cumbersome with this many modifiers, but I think it reflects things a little better.

Yeah, there's a lot of additional information, although the bones of it derives from an interpretation of the "Unlimited Mana" system of S. John Ross that was recently published in GURPS Thaumatology as the "Threshold-based Magic." It has some functional similarities when tweaked for an interpretation of psykers in 40k, but rather than being punitive it tends to be more "seductive," though I'm likely to say that since it agrees with how I view things. What do I mean be "seductive" in this case? Only this. Rather than having players roll a number of dice and, if the dice gods are angry, they get some nastiness happening to them that makes them "careful" about using their powers, you take another approach. Rather than having some random approach you keep an element of that—this is, after all, the warp that we're dealing with—but you make it such that the player is always being tempted to push their limits, or at least they're being asked to push those limits. Once they take that first step, it's a fight between the seduction of Chaos (remembering that this has to be RP'd) and the desire to use ones powers. A bit meta-gamey, I admit.

It's not a concept that is inherently predicated upon the "balance" of the game since, as pointed out elsewhere, it's not something that I have to worry about in terms of marketability of the final product. Chances are that it is only ever going to be me using the thing. At the same time, I am concerned about that flavour you get from the background materials.

Oh, as to "bad effects" associated with the use of psyker powers. If you make a really catastrophic mistake the standard mechanics of the system allow for a critical failure, but the primary system is "Taint", or the idea that your soul is gradually corrupted by the warp. This is similar to the "sickly green light" that Jaq Draco reports as seeing, rather than his own pure white light. This taint then interplays with insanity, mutation, and premature ageing (amongst other things).

Still has some problems, including trying to negotiate just how powerful the various Grades are. That's difficult when dealing with the hyperbole (or not) of the material on, say, Alphas. But that's something that I'm been delaying make a decision on for years.

Anyway, the ultimate effect is the same as you subsequently describe, i.e. to get the players to think about the use of their powers, but its slightly turned on its head. Rather than create means by which they are punished for the use of their powers, this is about the "line" between overuse of the powers.

Maybe I'm not describing it very well, but it does seem to be very different than the RAW Dark Heresy system. And if that system does everything for you, then fair enough.

Kage

Yeah, I agree. My group hasn't gotten around to playing DH, but when we do, I have one player that I am almost certain will play a Psyker. The one thing I'm not sure about is how often he'll use his powers. *cue fingernail biting*

N0-1_H3r3 said:

I actually would've pegged Ravenor at Psy Rating 6+ - He's an Alpha Plus level psyker, isn't he? I think DH psykers top out at Beta level.

Plus, as you said, his chair probably incorporates high-end military hardware like that used in Aegis armor and Psychic Hoods - both of which are going to knock a few 9s off his rolls.