The title pretty much.

The Harpooned condition, is it an effect owned by the attacker, or the defender?

The underlying issue is TLT. If it's an attacker effect you can always trigger Harpooned with the TLT (as you can choose to trigger Harpooned before TLT effect), but if it's a defender effect, which triggers first depends on initiative as per FAQ:

Q: If both players have effects that resolve at the same time
(or from the same trigger), which player resolves their
abilities first?
A: The player with initiative resolves all abilities he would like to resolve, then
the other player resolves all abilities he would like to resolve.

Unclear, needs FAQ.

As far as I can tell, the condition card "belongs" to the ship it was assigned to. Case in point: "A score to settle" which inflicts "a debt to pay". The player who just has had "a debt to pay" assigned to him decides, when he attacks a ship with a "A score to settle", when to modify his dice. His opponent has no say in the matter.

I'm not exactly sure that TLT is affected:

Harpooned!: When you are hit by an attack, if there is at least 1 uncanceled result, each other ship at Range 1 suffers 1 damage.

TLT: Each time this attack hits, the defender suffers 1 damage. Then cancel all dice results.

Assuming that a TLT strike had a crit in it. Both abilities are triggered at the same time. What changes is the timing, but both are still triggered as per rules reference:

"When a ship is destroyed, its card abilities are
no longer active. The exceptions to this rule are
card abilities whose effects have already been
triggered and specify a time when the effect
ends, such as “until the end of the Combat
phase.”"

I could be wrong, but I don't think the timing has any actual effect here?

I was a little too curt perhaps: the whole interaction between Harpoon Missiles and 'cancel all dice and do $thing' weapons is unclear and needs FAQ.

Essentially, RAW TLT seems to be able to trigger the harpooned effect but I think it's obvious to everyone that it shouldn't. Hopefully an FAQ addresses this whenever they do the next one...

Most places seem to be ruling that TLT doesn't trigger the harpooned effect.

I'd read the Xizor FAQ as precedent that 'uncancelled' hits and crits are ones which would deal damage - TLT and Ion Cannon and etc don't leave 'uncancelled' hits and crits for Harpooned, Bossk, Xizor etc to work on.

But it needs its own FAQ to be sure.

29 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

I'd read the Xizor FAQ as precedent that 'uncancelled' hits and crits are ones which would deal damage - TLT and Ion Cannon and etc don't leave 'uncancelled' hits and crits for Harpooned, Bossk, Xizor etc to work on.

But it needs its own FAQ to be sure.

I think that the FAQ on Xizor is meant to indicate that Xizor's ability comes in too late (at the deal damage step). Having someone else suffer the damage does not stop the fact that Xizor was "hit" and that the full effect of a TLT or ion cannon will still take place on Xizor.

Not quite. It indicates that you cannot use his ability prior to the ion cannon step (for want of a better phrase) which suggests that the ion cannon step takes place before abilities that do things with uncancelled results.

Would an effect that triggers "when you are hit by an attack" happen at the same time as an "after an attack" effect like Vader's crew ability? It seems like you have to resolve that the attack hit and damage is dealt before abilities trigger going by the timing chart. Another vote for an FAQ entry!

Just now, Jimbawa said:

Would an effect that triggers "when you are hit by an attack" happen at the same time as an "after an attack" effect like Vader's crew ability? It seems like you have to resolve that the attack hit and damage is dealt before abilities trigger going by the timing chart. Another vote for an FAQ entry!

No.

They are two different triggers. ON a hit takes place sometime in step 7, after attacking at step 8 or 9 depending on whether it's an attack or not.

I know the timing is different from the case in question, but could you consider it to interact the way fleet officer and PTL interact? You start an action (or attack with the TLT) then cause a subsequent effect that must be resolved before moving to another ability that triggered, i.e. take the stress before you try to PTL or cancel your dice before going back to trigger harpooned. Is that a fair comparison?

What?

Can you write out the sequence of events you're discussing because it's incomprehensible just from your alluded-to analogy.

I also suspect you don't understand fleet officer/PTL properly.

In my analogy, you use fleet officer to hand out focus tokens. Yay, you did an action, so the trigger for PTL has been met. However, using fleet officer also gives you the stress token which denies you from performing an action with PTL (because receiving the stress is part of the action, not a nested effect like from experimental interface).

Attacking with TLT performs an attack with whatever results, including a crit. Yay, you hit with an attack with an uncancelled crit, so the trigger for harpooned has been met. However, using the TLT also requires that you cancel that uncancelled crit, which denies harpooned from triggering (because the die cancellation is a required part of the attack hitting and it never gets to the deal damage step to resolve uncancelled dice). I'm pretty sure there is something in the FAQ that effects must be resolved in their entirety before moving on to a triggered effect.

Is that straightforward enough for you? Is that a fair comparison or is there another layer that needs examined?

It's a reasonable comparison, but the thing you imply exists that prevents you moving on from something before it's complete doesn't in fact exist. The reason PTLing off Fleet officer doesn't work is because the trigger for PTL is 'after performing an action' at which point, you're stressed. The triggers for the Ion Cannon Step and Harpooned are arguably the same, so the analogy doesn't work.

FAQ pg 7 under Resolving Simultaneous Effects:

If a player has simultaneous effects that resolve from the same trigger, that player resolves the entirety of one effect (and any subsequent effects from that trigger) before resolving the others.

Since you are already in the middle of resolving the TLT attack, you must finish resolving the TLT's dice cancellation before moving on to subsequent triggers. Did I read into that incorrectly?

No.

But there's nothing to stop you resolving Harpooned first. You have two effects to resolve - the Ion Cannon Step and Harpooned. You choose Harpooned. You deal the damage card and splash damage, and the condition is discarded. Then you resolve the Ion Cannon Step and cancel all the dice, etc.

It's probable that this isn't intended and the ICS will always come before other 'on-hit' effects, but until we get an FAQ, it's unclear.

I think that's where I have my hangup. With Fleet Officer, you are performing an action that then gives you an inhibitor to chaining off of that. I had assumed that since you are already in the middle of resolving an attack that inhibits harpoon's trigger, you had to finish resolving the TLT effect like you would with fleet officer instead of interrupting the effect part way through to circumvent the inhibiting factor.

It feels to me like trying to trigger harpooned off a TLT shot is like trying to PTL off a fleet officer, so I had thought it a good similarity. I hope they FAQ it to show that the order should follow like that.

I would suggest to look at it from another side. The Harpooned card checks for any "uncancelled" critical results which means that it is waiting until dice modification step is completed for checking if any uncancelled resulsts are left.

That would fit in line with other similar cases, like Xizor. Although, I do agree that this is not clear.

Anyway, Xizor is an interesting case. What if he is Harpooned and gets a crit and passes it onto a friendly ship? I would say that yes, Xizor may pass the crit, but anyway the splash will occur and we will measure from his ship.

What about Bossk? If he hits, and decide to change the critical result into two hits? I would say the trigger is not met because the critical hit was in the end cancelled.

I would define "uncancelled critical result" as a result that deals critical damage in the end (no matter if it is passed onto another friendly ship or not).