Hey all,

I have a point of contention with one of my players regarding the Ebb and Flow control upgrade (Bottom left control).

The description is below:

“The force power gains the ongoing effect. Commit Force Die until the end of the current encounter. For the remainder of the current encounter the force user must add force dice to all skill checks he makes. Each light and dark pip rolled adds either success or advantage to the check (the user’s choice). However, for each darkside pip rolled, the user suffers 1 strain and gains 1 conflict.”

My first question: Can the force user use the committed force dice against incoming social checks? For example: A senator makes a leadership check against the PC to urge the PC to support him. Can the player apply force dice to generate threats or failures since the check is opposed?

My second question: To commit the force dice, do you have to commit them on one turn, waiting until subsequent turns to gain the benefit of ebb and flow? Or, do you get the benefits of the control upgrade immediately?

My interpretation is below but I'm getting kick back from my player. You can skip reading below if you want.

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Interpretation of Ebb and Flow

1. Ebb and Flow can be used in an encounter, or a pseudo encounter only.

   1. The devs state on the Order 66 podcast that this was a power designed for encounters only. In the text, the way the power reads corroborates this as most upgrades refer to “turns” and “the next turn”. Thus indicating that it is designed for use in encounters. However, there are situations where we may not have rolled for initiative but there is a short exchange of checks between two PC’s or a PC and an NPC. I’ll refer to these as Pseudo-encounters. They are situations where we could roll initiative to determine the outcome, but this would be two time consuming for the relative importance of the encounter. I would allow Ebb and Flow to be used in this situation but must be used in a manner congruent with my statements in point 3.

   2. Further, this would indicate that Ebb and Flow cannot be used in downtime activities or for checks that represent significant time going by. For example: E&F could not be used in a streetwise check to find a certain criminal contact because this “search” would take place over a long period of time (hours or days).

2. To gain the benefits of Ebb or Flow, the character must first activate the power and then he gains access to its benefits on subsequent turns. This is true even when the force user commits a force dice using the control upgrade.

3. Concerning the bottom left control upgrade.

   1. The full description of the power is as follows “The force power gains the ongoing effect. Commit Force Die until the end of the current encounter. For the remainder of the current encounter the force user must add force dice to all skill checks he makes. Each light and dark pip rolled adds either success or advantage to the check (the user’s choice). However, for each darkside pip rolled, the user suffers 1 strain and gains 1 conflict.”

   2. The bottom left control upgrade can only be used to generate success or advantages on skill checks made when the force user is the active character making the check. (The committed force die cannot be used on inbound checks, ie. checks made by another character)

1. Language for opposed checks - page 33 F&D
   1. “An opposed check occurs when someone is actively trying to prevent a character from succeeding, or when one character is trying to overcome or get past another. For example, a Force-sensitive Sentinel lies to an Imperial governor, claiming to know nothing about the ancient Jedi holocron that recently vanished from the governor’s collection. The Sentinel’s Deception check might be opposed by the governor’s Vigilance”

      1. “Opposed checks are most often applicable when a task involves directly opposing the task that another character is performing, or when a task involves trying to go unnoticed, undetected, or undiscovered by someone else.”

      2. “Like standard checks, opposed checks add purple and potentially red to the skill check’s dice pool. However, rather than simply being assigned by the GM, the difficulty of an opposed check is determined by a quick comparison of the opposing character’s relevant characteristic and skill ranks.”

      3. “Building the active character ’s dice pool starts out following the same procedures as those for a basic dice pool. Based on the character’s relevant characteristic and skill ranks, green are added, and some may be upgraded into yellow. The opposition then introduces purple and red based on its own relevant characteristic and skill ranks. The higher of the opposition’s characteristic and skill values determines how many purple are added to the pool, while the lower value indicates how many of those dice are upgraded into red

   2. To clarify

      2. The “active character” is the PC or NPC who’s turn it is. This is who is making the check.

      3. Line 2 of the control upgrade states “ For the remainder of the current encounter the force user must add force dice to all skill checks he makes.”

1. 1. 2. In conclusion, if another PC or NPC makes a check, on their turn and in an encounter, they are the active character and it is not the force user making a check. Therefore, no committed force die can be applied to their check.

While I agree with your assessent of that control upgrade without looking in the book... does that negate the use of the basic power and other upgrades?

The basic lets you roll up to your FR and then the strength ug's let you project failures and threats on others right? So does the use of that one control negate the other uses of the power? I think that is the question to ask.

First Question: No, the target of an incoming skill check cannot use committed Force Dice 'against' the check. The committed Force Dice (or more generically, a character's Force Pool) are only added to checks the Force User makes.

Second Question: Once committed, you would get the benefit immediately, though typically it is not possible to take more than one action during structured time, so the benefit will often not be useful until the next round as a result.