So as some of you probably know, I am working on a painting a separatist dreadnought, and I need a card for it. I have seen several online, such as on KDY and Mario's, but these to me represent more the Destroyer/Carrier variant, not the 2k long dreadnought. So, do you guys have any ideas? What kind of dice? Tokens? Upgrades? Cost?

Any help would be greatly appreciated thanks.

I'd say make it similar to an MC80 in terms of firing arcs/shield distribution etc but with ISD stats. Maybe an extra hullpoint or two considering its size, but it is a technologically outdated ship so I wouldn't go overboard with it.

Given that there's volumetric estimates out there that put the Invisible Hand at very close to 1/10 the volume, the Separatist Dreadnought, at around 2x the length of the Invisible Hand, and the same shape, should be 8x this - or around 80% of the volume of an ISD.

Ok so a few things I came up with...

The Providence standard variant was armed with 14 quad laser turrets, 34 dual laser cannons, 2 ion cannons, 102 proton torpedoes, and tractor beams. One could assume, given that these numbers are for a variant half the size, that you could simply double the numbers and say that is the armament of the 2k variant. Given that armament, I am thinking that this ship will have the following upgrade slots:

Officer (standard, comes with all ships)

Offensive retrofit (tractor beams, etc)

Defensive retrofit (Quarren ship, same planet as Mon Calamari, strong shields, thermal shields, etc.)

Fleet support (this is a massive ship, usually at the head of a blockade or invasion fleet)

Ordinance upgrade (Massive amount of proton torpedo tubes)

Turbolaser upgrade (good amount of heavy laser power)

These are the upgrades I will definitely have on this ship. I am keeping the ion upgrade off it as the dreadnought does not appear to be armed with a lot of ion cannons. The two upgrades I have questions about are the following:

Support team

Weapons team

Most ships come with one or the other. I can't decide which one would fit better with this ship. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

As to dice, since it is long and narrow, much like the MC80 Home One type, I will have more dice on the side than the front. Also, given the lack of ion cannons, I think I won't have more than one blue die on any one side. I am thinking that this ship is a brawler, given its large number of proton torpedoes. Here is a hypothetical for die combinations:

Front arc: 2 red, 1 blue, 1 black

Side arcs: 3 red, 1 blue, 4 black

Rear arc: 2 red, 1 black

I think this ship would have the standard ISD/MC80 Home One layout for defense tokens, 1 brace, 2 redirects, 1 contain

Given the strong showing we have seen of the dreadnought's shields, I have a couple of ideas for shielding

Option 1: 4 shield front, 5 shield sides, 3 shield rear

Option 2: 4 shield front, 4 shield side, 4 shield rear

For hull, this ship is pretty big, so I would give it probably 10 for a hull points. It doesn't have the volume of the ISD, which is why it is less than that.

For speed, this ship was fast, so I think speed 3 sounds about right. However, due to the tight grouping of engines, and the long and narrow nature of the ship, I don't think the dreadnought is very maneuverable, so I would give it the following:

Speed 3: One click at speed 3

Speed 2: One click at speed 2

Speed 1: One click at speed 1

Finally, to cost. This ship was massive, and rightly so, should be expensive. I would put it between 128-140 points, can be adjusted as needed.

All of this is a WIP, what do you guys think?

1 hour ago, Battlefleet 01 Studios said:

Ok so a few things I came up with...

The Providence standard variant was armed with 14 quad laser turrets, 34 dual laser cannons, 2 ion cannons, 102 proton torpedoes, and tractor beams. One could assume, given that these numbers are for a variant half the size, that you could simply double the numbers and say that is the armament of the 2k variant. Given that armament, I am thinking that this ship will have the following upgrade slots:

Officer (standard, comes with all ships)

Offensive retrofit (tractor beams, etc)

Defensive retrofit (Quarren ship, same planet as Mon Calamari, strong shields, thermal shields, etc.)

Fleet support (this is a massive ship, usually at the head of a blockade or invasion fleet)

Ordinance upgrade (Massive amount of proton torpedo tubes)

Turbolaser upgrade (good amount of heavy laser power)

These are the upgrades I will definitely have on this ship. I am keeping the ion upgrade off it as the dreadnought does not appear to be armed with a lot of ion cannons. The two upgrades I have questions about are the following:

Support team

Weapons team

Most ships come with one or the other. I can't decide which one would fit better with this ship. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

As to dice, since it is long and narrow, much like the MC80 Home One type, I will have more dice on the side than the front. Also, given the lack of ion cannons, I think I won't have more than one blue die on any one side. I am thinking that this ship is a brawler, given its large number of proton torpedoes. Here is a hypothetical for die combinations:

Front arc: 2 red, 1 blue, 1 black

Side arcs: 3 red, 1 blue, 4 black

Rear arc: 2 red, 1 black

I think this ship would have the standard ISD/MC80 Home One layout for defense tokens, 1 brace, 2 redirects, 1 contain

Given the strong showing we have seen of the dreadnought's shields, I have a couple of ideas for shielding

Option 1: 4 shield front, 5 shield sides, 3 shield rear

Option 2: 4 shield front, 4 shield side, 4 shield rear

For hull, this ship is pretty big, so I would give it probably 10 for a hull points. It doesn't have the volume of the ISD, which is why it is less than that.

For speed, this ship was fast, so I think speed 3 sounds about right. However, due to the tight grouping of engines, and the long and narrow nature of the ship, I don't think the dreadnought is very maneuverable, so I would give it the following:

Speed 3: One click at speed 3

Speed 2: One click at speed 2

Speed 1: One click at speed 1

Finally, to cost. This ship was massive, and rightly so, should be expensive. I would put it between 128-140 points, can be adjusted as needed.

All of this is a WIP, what do you guys think?

Thats basically the same I made a while ago on KDY, except from the speed ( decreased to 2), and I went with a weapons teams slot (though i also made a carrier version with both but that has a very decreased armament).

Though i was never quite sure how right my idea was, so I am quite happy to see that you came up with almost the exact same stats.

Edit:

the shields are also a bit different on mine,

just changed that

liked the stronger side idea.

Addendum:

Here are the links:

Destroyer:

http://kdyards.com/ships.view.php?id=3138

Carrier:

http://kdyards.com/ships.view.php?id=3139

They’re Rebel ships as they were intended as a balanced against my Secutor class star destroyer.

59 minutes ago, Battlefleet 01 Studios said:

Support team

Weapons team

A summary of your ship:

Version 1:
Shields: 4/5/3
Speed: 3
D. Tokens: Brace, Redirect, Redirect, Contain
Hull: 10
Cost: 128-140
Dice: 2R1B2b/3R1B4b/2R1b
Upgrades: Officer, Offensive retrofit, Defensive retrofit, Fleet support, Ordinance upgrade, Turbolaser

Version 2:
Shields: 4/4/4
Speed: 3
D. Tokens: Brace, Redirect, Redirect, Contain
Hull: 10
Cost: 128-140
Dice: 2R1B2b/3R1B4b/2R1b
Upgrades: Officer, Offensive retrofit, Defensive retrofit, Fleet support, Ordnance upgrade, Turbolaser

What're its squad/engineering/command values, and its AA dice?

I would probably not give it weapons team. Its sides, which are as large an HMC80, would have 8 dice. That's an ISD's front arc. Having 2 of those on a ship is nasty. It wasn't added to the HMC80 for a reason. That reason applies more so here, where there are more dice. Sure, it is mostly close range, but it oughtn't be too hard to fit multiple ships into close range of these arcs, or one at close and another at far. Giving WT to an ISD is OK because it is one arc. Giving it to this ship would I think be too much, because it is much easier to get 2 ships in this vessel's arcs. With its hull and shielding, it will be nearly impossible to take down, especially if it spams engineering, and that means it will remain a massive threat for longer. It's only saving grace in that respect is the horrendous maneuver chart. This thing is otherwise a beast. Due to the upgrades, I'll compare it to aKuat ISD. A better brawler's main arc, and TWO of them. Because the main arcs are on the side, it also doesn't really need to maneuver. Like the HMC80, it just needs to turn a click or two, and the enemy is still its massive arc. It wants the enemy to get around it, but not all the way. That is achievable (I think) with it's current chart. With upgrade slots like turbolaser for XI7, Fleet Support for SHM! if need be to boost its repair strength, and Ordinance, I think in needs a major detractor. Beyond just its speed chart.
Granted, the Kuat has all those and the WT slot AND the Defense slot for 112 points. . . AND has a better speed chart AND better hull. . . But worse shields, and only 1 main arc. The most it can hope for is 12 dice without CF in a double arc. Only 5 of those are black. This thing gets 13 dice, with 6 black. Those dice REALLY want a dice modification ability, being mostly dice with blank sides. VT or OE would be greatly desired. It also would make the ship nearly perfect.

I think the only reason I would consider giving it the slot is it's cost. A Kuat is 112 points naked. At the minimum, this is 128. If you have OE, XI7, and let's say EL, the Kuat is 135, and this is 151. 1 more dice in the double arc, 16 more points. But then you have to consider it's potential in the Ackbar Slash, because it has 2 Kuat front arcs to the Kuat's 1. It could be throwing 16 dice without CF or upgrades like Rapid Reload, Enhanced Armaments, etc. The highest the Kuat can reach is 12 without upgrades. As they have the same slots, the lead stays the same, so the Providence will always be able to throw 4 more dice than the Kuat, with the same upgrades. I think 4 dice are worth those 16 points. That's only 4 points a dice, or 2 points per potential damage. Worth it, in my opinion. So either add the WT slot but increase the base cost to the 140 potential price and don't go lower, or don't have the WT slot and keep the price around 120-134.

The Support Team slot, however, could be added without too much trouble. Nav Teams would be very useful to this ship, more so than to any other ships but the Liberty and Arq. If you do add the WT, DON'T put this, as both would make this ship utterly perfect. Out of the two, I would suggest this if any, because it has less immediate value in terms of damage, and thus keeps this ship out of the 'auto-include' region (when you have an awesome ship, choose the worse of two options so as not to make it too good for the game, basically). If you did include this, though, it would be easier to get dice on target, and thus I think the proce ought to be 130-136, rather than the 140+ for WT or 120-134 without either.

I have no idea if this was in any way helpful or understandable (I rewrote it approximately 4 times), but it's here in case it is.

Those are extremely powerful ships, not that that is unwarranted. If you want, I think DA's Providence is very similar to my original proposal (I was the one driving a lot of the Clone Wars work as the one that cared the most), so I can go slap together an uparmed variant if you want.

10 hours ago, GiledPallaeon said:

Those are extremely powerful ships, not that that is unwarranted. If you want, I think DA's Providence is very similar to my original proposal (I was the one driving a lot of the Clone Wars work as the one that cared the most), so I can go slap together an uparmed variant if you want.

That would be awesome to see your take on it.

I'm working on some title cards, created based on the performances we have seen of these ships:

Invincible (10 pts): Once per turn, you may choose one ship at distance 1-5. That ship can spend defense tokens at speed 0 this turn.

Deft Wizardry (5 pts): For every round in which you are not attacked, you may gain 1 command token of your choice.

I based the Invincible's ability off its leading of the separatist blockade over Christophsis. The Lucid Voice, I thought given the detail about its antennae being used for disruption in the novel Tarkin, it would be neat for it to disrupt one ship's ability to use cards to help another. I came up with the title of Deft Wizardry, to me, it represents the dreadnought we see Dooku use in the Clone Wars. Frequently, Dooku's dreadnought and its battle group is off causing devastation. Since the dreadnought never really comes under attack, it is free do as it please, IE the command token.

What do you guys think?

I think the Lucid Voice is supposed to be able to masquerade as the Invisible Hand - hence it should be a "Providence destroyer" title rather than a "Providence dreadnought" title.

3 minutes ago, Ironlord said:

I think the Lucid Voice is supposed to be able to masquerade as the Invisible Hand - hence it should be a "Providence destroyer" title rather than a "Providence dreadnought" title.

In the legends material, I would 100% agree. However, the new cannon doesn't specifically say this. Here is the new cannon article:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lucid_Voice

4 minutes ago, Battlefleet 01 Studios said:

In the legends material, I would 100% agree. However, the new cannon doesn't specifically say this. Here is the new cannon article:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lucid_Voice

True - but it makes sense that the author would be drawing from his Legends knowledge when writing it.

Good point.

6 minutes ago, Battlefleet 01 Studios said:

Good point.

My guess was (since the ship with Lucid Voice parts is even shorter than the short version of the Providence-class: 920m, compared to 1088m for mini-Providence) that most of the parts came from mini- Providences - and that the Invincible was the only mega- Providence that contributed bits. And thus, the "downsized version of a Providence" comment:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Berch_Teller's_warship

" Analysis of data received by the command center's friend-or-foe indicator confirms that the capital ship is a downsized version of a Separatist Providence -class cruiser-carrier, modified with modules taken from CIS frigates and destroyers. Ships of the sort made a name for themselves during the war by jamming signals and destroying HoloNet relays. "

means that its statline would be similar to that of the Invisible Hand.

The Providence Dreadnought page:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Providence-class_dreadnought

does call the Invisible Hand a dreadnought despite its small size, after all.

3 hours ago, Battlefleet 01 Studios said:

I'm working on some title cards, created based on the performances we have seen of these ships:

Invincible (10 pts): Once per turn, you may choose one ship at distance 1-5. That ship can spend defense tokens at speed 0 this turn.

Deft Wizardry (5 pts): For every round in which you are not attacked, you may gain 1 command token of your choice.

What do you guys think?

Like them, though I’d say that it might be appropriate to decrease the cost by at least one point ... though that’s just my two cents.

Edit:

Maybe something like that for a Lucid Voice title:

When resolving any card or command with a range restriction, increase that range to long range.

1 minute ago, Captain_Nemo said:

Like them, though I’d say that it might be appropriate to decrease the cost by at least one point ... though that’s just my two cents.

Yeah, I figured it'd be best to bet high, and it can be lowered if needed.

You basically want a nurf'ed MC80...as that is basically what it is. It's a step in the evolution of the MC80 home one.

Also you should consider keeping the fighter count at like..3...why...because the ships they were designed to carry were droid ships...small compact starfighters in racks versus rebel ships that need spread out space.

So much later than I originally intended to get this done, here is my take on the ship

kdyards.com/ships.view.php?id=4280

1 hour ago, GiledPallaeon said:

So much later than I originally intended to get this done, here is my take on the ship

kdyards.com/ships.view.php?id=4280

Very nice! If I ever manage to get CW ships from Mel's, this'll be the card I use.

What a monster though. Boosted Comms and EHB for 5 bombers, XI7 for no redirect on the target, Leading Shots to try for crits, APT's for extra cards, ECM to ensure use of the redirect - might it be a bit undercosted?

EDIT: To elaborate on my cost comment. The Kuat ISD is 112 points. It has gunnery team, but one less OR and no Turbolaser Slot. It's double arc is 12 dice and it has 2 squads. This ship has a double-arc of 13 dice, a Turbolaser slot, an additional OR slot, AND 4 squads by default. Obviously the lack of Gunnery is something that keeps its costs lower than they could have been, but it's potential damage on one ship is 3 squads and a die higher than the Kuat, with XI7s to prevent redirects. Is that only worth 14 more points?
I do not write this to criticize - doubtless I would have done far worse, and you are experienced at this and know what you are doing - but to get your thought process and see what made you choose this price.

Also, I take it this is the largest thing the Seps get? Like the ISD for the Imps?

If I remember correctly (can't check now) the Shipyards version had a title card specifically for the larger version of the ship. I think it increased hull, command, squadron and engineering by +1. I thought it was a cute way of handwaving the size issue Especially as the wookieepedia entry does not indicate any differences in armament or complement - just size.

The crux of the issue is, you simply can't double a ship's size (8x the volume!) and call it a "variant". Disney really dropped the ball on this one just to save a few $. Any attempt to plausibly reflect such a stupidly implausible situation in Armada will inevitably end up being insatisfactory for some.

So my take on it was that the Invisible Hand is simply a "beefier" variant. If you want more dice, add upgrades to taste. Perhaps I should revise the title card to also read "you may equip up to 2 Modification upgrades".

37 minutes ago, DiabloAzul said:

If I remember correctly (can't check now) the Shipyards version had a title card specifically for the larger version of the ship. I think it increased hull, command, squadron and engineering by +1. I thought it was a cute way of handwaving the size issue Especially as the wookieepedia entry does not indicate any differences in armament or complement - just size.

Doesn't an increase in size imply an increase in armament?

3 hours ago, GiledPallaeon said:

So much later than I originally intended to get this done, here is my take on the ship

kdyards.com/ships.view.php?id=4280

Very nice! I will definitely try this out!

3 hours ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Doesn't an increase in size imply an increase in armament?

Not really. I mean, generally speaking, one would usually assume so, but the design logic tends to be the reverse: if you want more/bigger guns, you need a bigger ship to fit them. Sure, more/bigger guns are one of the reasons you'd increase the size of a ship, but certainly not the only one: you'd also need a bigger ship if you wanted heavier armour, more squadron capacity, better command facilities or strategic assets (e.g. a large contingent of ground forces - and their associated logistics), even without increasing the armament of the ship.

The thing is, these assumptions are based on a world that makes sense. But the canon on this doesn't . So what do I know.

6 hours ago, GhostofNobodyInParticular said:

Very nice! If I ever manage to get CW ships from Mel's, this'll be the card I use.

What a monster though. Boosted Comms and EHB for 5 bombers, XI7 for no redirect on the target, Leading Shots to try for crits, APT's for extra cards, ECM to ensure use of the redirect - might it be a bit undercosted?

EDIT: To elaborate on my cost comment. The Kuat ISD is 112 points. It has gunnery team, but one less OR and no Turbolaser Slot. It's double arc is 12 dice and it has 2 squads. This ship has a double-arc of 13 dice, a Turbolaser slot, an additional OR slot, AND 4 squads by default. Obviously the lack of Gunnery is something that keeps its costs lower than they could have been, but it's potential damage on one ship is 3 squads and a die higher than the Kuat, with XI7s to prevent redirects. Is that only worth 14 more points?
I do not write this to criticize - doubtless I would have done far worse, and you are experienced at this and know what you are doing - but to get your thought process and see what made you choose this price.

Also, I take it this is the largest thing the Seps get? Like the ISD for the Imps?

Well, for starters we've picked up 23 points over the Kuat, we lost a speed point, and that Weapons Team is a double loss, since now you can't equip either Ordnance Experts or Flight Controllers. If the ship loses anything it'll be the defensive retrofit (which it may yet). I also need to reboot my old costing formula, now that I have a computer that can run it, I just haven't bothered yet because it'll be a minute.

Short a Lucrehulk , which was something like 3K meters in diameter, which we just can't really use.

EDIT: It's too early, I shouldn't have replied yet. The other thing that may help explain my reasoning is that I used the old Providence s on Armada Shipyards as the jumping off point, rather than anything else, so cost changes are relative to that ship (which may just add a second degree of error, but whatever).

3 minutes ago, GiledPallaeon said:

Well, for starters we've picked up 23 points over the Kuat, we lost a speed point, and that Weapons Team is a double loss, since now you can't equip either Ordnance Experts or Flight Controllers. If the ship loses anything it'll be the defensive retrofit (which it may yet). I also need to reboot my old costing formula, now that I have a computer that can run it, I just haven't bothered yet because it'll be a minute.

Short a Lucrehulk , which was something like 3K meters in diameter, which we just can't really use.

Oh right! Man my math is off. Why I thought it was only 14 points is beyond me. My apologies for wasting your time.