3 hours ago, Eoen said:

A Tie/ln’s lasers do 6 vehicle damage that’s 60 personal scale damage, you could train every lightsaber spec in game to full and under RAW not be able to reflect that.

If you have a lightsaber spec I would assume you’d have to have been trained, or you’d likely be missing some body parts.

In TCW most pawdawans knew more than one lightsaber form but it seems like they all knew improved reflect regardless of their role as in the Jedi order.

There depends on how you rule the wording on reflect. At my table we have gone for allowing reflect to reduce damage before applying any conversion of scale, meaning 6 vehicle damage is just 6 damage to reflect. So with 4 ranks in reflect you can block it. We based it on the wording of the talent and the fact that we see Ezra, Kannan and now even Sabine do it in Rebels.

8 hours ago, Eoen said:

I feel that the parry and reflect rules are the most un-Star Wars feeling rules in Force and Destiny. I mean Ezra Bridger at 17 years of age can reflect Tie Fighter blaster bolts, in canon no less. I know the developers are concerned about balance but screw balance if it breaks the space opera feel of the franchise.

There is another post on these forums I remember reading where the GM who posted his house rule where used each level of reflect as a failure. So reflect 4 is four failures added to the hit, which would fix the underpowered feel of the light saber specs, a master of Soresu is supposed to be almost unhittable in the old EU.

Also all the light saber specs should be universal spec trees.

I love this. But then how would improved parry work?

1 hour ago, Luahk said:

I love this. But then how would improved parry work?

Act like a despair? I think u can use them to inflict base damage on an engaged character but in this case... sorry the reflects case... you would be having it effect the shooter or his fellows.

3 hours ago, Luahk said:

I love this. But then how would improved parry work?

I worked up a contested check version of the talent back in the early EotE days. It's probably still floating around somewhere.

I think @Donovan Morningfire did something similar.

13 hours ago, Eoen said:

A Tie/ln’s lasers do 6 vehicle damage that’s 60 personal scale damage, you could train every lightsaber spec in game to full and under RAW not be able to reflect that.

If you have a lightsaber spec I would assume you’d have to have been trained, or you’d likely be missing some body parts.

In TCW most pawdawans knew more than one lightsaber form but it seems like they all knew improved reflect regardless of their role as in the Jedi order.

9 hours ago, Darth Revenant said:

There depends on how you rule the wording on reflect. At my table we have gone for allowing reflect to reduce damage before applying any conversion of scale, meaning 6 vehicle damage is just 6 damage to reflect. So with 4 ranks in reflect you can block it. We based it on the wording of the talent and the fact that we see Ezra, Kannan and now even Sabine do it in Rebels.

@Darth Revenant is correct here. The rules state that Parry and Reflect are applied after the base damage is calculated, but before Soak is applied (immediately after Step 3). And Reflect does apply to Gunnery weapons.

1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:

@Darth Revenant is correct here. The rules state that Parry and Reflect are applied after the base damage is calculated, but before Soak is applied (immediately after Step 3). And Reflect does apply to Gunnery weapons.

I remember reading that from the earlier thread, but doesn’t that mean that a pistol damage 6 and a laser cannon damage 6 are of equal ease to reflect while a damage 10 carbine is now tougher to reflect than a vehicle weapon?

9 hours ago, Luahk said:

I love this. But then how would improved parry work?

I’m not sure if improved parry needs to change isn’t that a reposte in fencing (an attack that follows a parry).

But I think regular parry could work the same way a failure for each rank in parry but described as a parry instead of a clean miss.

On 10/30/2017 at 2:23 AM, Eoen said:

Yeah Juyo - Vaapad and the Sith form Dun Möch and some minor forms like Sokan, Jar'Kai, Tràkata, Trispzest.

Isn't Dun Möch literally just a fancy name cor **** talking?

On 10/30/2017 at 2:23 AM, Eoen said:

Did you really just make a double post? There's a special place in **** for people like you, you filthy degenerate.

RrRrRrRrRrReEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeE

personally I'd allow a double parry, it allows the protector to protect as well as th defender also providing a second layer of defense. If you look at the possibilities in Guardian the defense you can stack up are way worse from a game perspective than a double parry. Soresu has the talent that allows you to add reasonable amount of black dice to the check, add that to the mix then you can be a defensive powerhouse

On 10/29/2017 at 7:20 PM, GM Hooly said:

Basically the rules are not as clear as I would like them to be, but it does stand that there is the basic rule (you hit and do damage), then the talent (Parry - can reduce that damage by parrying the hit), the the 2nd talent (Circle of Shelter - when you can also use Parry on someone else's hit). The talents increase in their ability to break the base rule the higher you go. Sure a pair of Jedi could do that all day, but the bad guys would get this idea pretty quickly with the leader yelling "Set Weapons to stun!" or "Autofire! Now!"

Now couple this with Parry (Supreme) which as long as you don't attack, Parrying costs 1 strain.

Discuss.

I don't see any reason you couldn't do this. There are plenty of examples in entertainment of 3 swordfighters going at it, and 2 of them are working against the 3rd. And they get into a blade lock moment, with the 2 fighters successfully stopping the powerful attack of the 3rd person. To me, this is the thematic attempt at what you are trying to describe. One person is using Circle of Shelter, allowing them try and Parry the blade, the other person still has agency and can do their own attempt at Parry. If it equals a complete reduction of damage to 0, then visually it would be that classic shot of them both crossing their blades, stopping the attack entirely, glaring at the opponent. If it doesn't entirely remove the damage, then the opponent is able to push through their defenses, and still land a hit, knocking back both of their blades in the powerful strike, or perhaps slipping through skill fully if it's a finesse type fighter.

So yeah, I think it's entirely feasible, though it does mean that the duo will have a VERY strong defense in those situations, and you would need to take that into consideration when structuring your encounters.

7 hours ago, Degenerate Mind said:

RrRrRrRrRrReEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeEeE

I didn’t make that post, stop trolling.

7 hours ago, Degenerate Mind said:

Isn't Dun Möch literally just a fancy name cor **** talking?

Yes there are a few **** talker specs in this game.

yeah sensored boards.

35 minutes ago, Eoen said:

I didn’t make that post, stop trolling.

Bad form ≠ trolling.

12 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

Bad form ≠ trolling.

...In my defense, that was made at 4 in the mornin where I am. I didn't even remember that until I checked this thread.

46 minutes ago, awayputurwpn said:

Bad form ≠ trolling.

Quoting someone then editing the post to say something they did say is not a bad form.

7 minutes ago, Eoen said:

Quoting someone then editing the post to say something they did say is not a bad form.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bad/poor form

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/bad_form

1 hour ago, awayputurwpn said:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bad/poor form

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/bad_form

Ah I get what your saying I thought you where referring to the database form entry.

6 hours ago, Eoen said:

Quoting someone then editing the post to say something they did say is not a bad form.

That was a double post, so I figured I might as well try and be creative with it, given that it's impossible to delete extraneous/redundant posts - unfortunately for me, being on the verge of passing out from putting off sleep does not lend itself well to creativity.

Well the issue is resolved now, so no need to continue to debate it.

On 28.10.2017 at 0:41 PM, Donovan Morningfire said:

While your case is a cool scenario (and props to PC1), the potential problem if you allow the PC benefiting from Circle of Shelter to also use Parry, is that it allows the targeted PC to "double-dip" and effectively get the benefits of Parry twice.

If double dipping with circle of shelter would not have been the intention, they would have ruled this out. The talent is not only expensive (20xp, dead end in the tree), but it is as well in a spec which is all about protecting other force users. It a spec in the FaD core, so the assumption that most PCs will have parry is a reasonable assumption, they still formulated circle of shelter and parry in a way that allows combining. The three is on top otherwise rather lackluster, which would be not uncommon for specs with a some outstanding talents included.

Now as in parry talent itself there is this "once per hit clause" we might still assume that double dipping is not intended . I would still not be surprised if the intention was once per source of parry, but it is written at it is, so I have to assume it is ruled out.

On 30.10.2017 at 3:54 AM, Eoen said:

There is another post on these forums I remember reading where the GM who posted his house rule where used each level of reflect as a failure. So reflect 4 is four failures added to the hit, which would fix the underpowered feel of the light saber specs, a master of Soresu is supposed to be almost unhittable in the old EU.

Now that on the other hand is underestimating the power of Soresu masters in FaD. Once you have 7 ranks of parry + a soak of 8, you pretty much become unhittable until you reach your strain limit.
A Soresu master is not a guy who has just 300 XP in that one single spec, but rather someone with over 1000 xp in a lot of trees and force powers. Defense builds work in this game.

13 hours ago, SEApocalypse said:

Now that on the other hand is underestimating the power of Soresu masters in FaD. Once you have 7 ranks of parry + a soak of 8, you pretty much become unhittable until you reach your strain limit.
A Soresu master is not a guy who has just 300 XP in that one single spec, but rather someone with over 1000 xp in a lot of trees and force powers. Defense builds work in this game.

Soresu only has four ranks of parry, yes I am aware a true knight would know more than one style. If your relying on soak then you've been hit, haven't you? If your hit by a lightsaber then soak means nothing unless its over 10 or has cortosis quality, I understand the mechanics of the RAW. I wasn't talking about RAW but all the in universe people who rarely get hit at all. Maybe they all have huge ranks in dodge, defensive stance, or some other defensive talent.

1 hour ago, Eoen said:

Soresu only has four ranks of parry, yes I am aware a true knight would know more than one style. If your relying on soak then you've been hit, haven't you? If your hit by a lightsaber then soak means nothing unless its over 10 or has cortosis quality, I understand the mechanics of the RAW. I wasn't talking about RAW but all the in universe people who rarely get hit at all. Maybe they all have huge ranks in dodge, defensive stance, or some other defensive talent.

A mechanical "hit" is not necessarily a narrative "hit." In all my years of gaming, never have I described accumulation of wounds as a series of blaster bolts or sword strikes hitting a character. They are always near misses, coupled often with physiological duress.

Then again, how many characters in the Star Wars universe just stand there and fight? They're always ducking behind crates or other forms of cover, etc. Maybe the un-Star-Wars-y factor is not the game rules, but the PCs who are just standing there in the middle of an open space with their blasters pointed at stormtroopers, complaining that they're getting shot. Maybe go take cover, and I'll narrate how your approach to your wound threshold is a series of close calls, all mitigated by your battle-readiness and toughness under fire.

3 hours ago, Eoen said:

Soresu only has four ranks of parry, yes I am aware a true knight would know more than one style. If your relying on soak then you've been hit, haven't you? If your hit by a lightsaber then soak means nothing unless its over 10 or has cortosis quality, I understand the mechanics of the RAW. I wasn't talking about RAW but all the in universe people who rarely get hit at all. Maybe they all have huge ranks in dodge, defensive stance, or some other defensive talent.

Lightsaber damage is a) very low and b) as away said, a mechanical hit is not necessary a narrative hit. Because, by all means if you apply parry, you have been hit already. You can not parry misses. ;-)

Furthermore we talked about a master. A master knows all styles and specialize in one, but actually even just having 3 guardian specs is enough get the ranks in parry needed to become practically immun . 5 Ranks in parry, cortosis quality armor, a soak around 10+ and 4 ranks of reflect, that's 17 / 16 damage reduced from each hit ... not that Soresu would be the best style against ranged weapons, but you still get practically immune to those as well when you combine Soresu, Armorer und Protector.

On 11/6/2017 at 10:59 PM, SEApocalypse said:

Lightsaber damage is a) very low and b) as away said, a mechanical hit is not necessary a narrative hit. Because, by all means if you apply parry, you have been hit already. You can not parry misses. ;-)

Furthermore we talked about a master. A master knows all styles and specialize in one, but actually even just having 3 guardian specs is enough get the ranks in parry needed to become practically immun . 5 Ranks in parry, cortosis quality armor, a soak around 10+ and 4 ranks of reflect, that's 17 / 16 damage reduced from each hit ... not that Soresu would be the best style against ranged weapons, but you still get practically immune to those as well when you combine Soresu, Armorer und Protector.

Under RAW yes a parry is a hit, in real life it’s a block and your not hit. If the business end of a weapon makes I past your guard then you didn’t parry the blow. It’s binary.

Most Jedi are not Ironman (Tony Stark) with 10 soak and refined cortosis armor (which should be extremely rare as it was mined out thousands of years ago by the Sith and the Republic), even during the Clone Wars Kanobi’s armor was not noticibly bettter than clone trooper armor. Yet I can hardly think of a time where he gets hit except the first duel with Count Dooku.

Lightsaber is not low considering it has breach and talents like saberswarm.