22 hours ago, Mark Caliber said:

To whit, a Soak of 10 is game breaking. So NERF that Hutt!

I don't get the outrage, it's not that big a deal. Back when the beginner box was first introduced, there were plenty of posts on what a pushover Teemo was, I'm sure you could scrounge the message boards and find them (if they survived FFG's forum re-org). Teemo suffers from the same drawbacks of any Nemesis in the game, which is that once he's alone he has only one attack. Besides, the PCs just have to be prepared. Weapons with pierce or breach or high damage output are essential. Basically, if the PCs don't show up with a missile or two, it's not going to end well, but that's on them.

On 2017-10-27 at 4:00 PM, Scapino said:

My players are all pretty new and thus don't have the skills or weapons to take on someone with 10 soak and a wound threshold of 30.

I wouldn't hesitate to be clear to them about that part. Ideally you'd put several more sessions between where they are and where they need to be. And you don't need a special Hutt Killer weapon, all they need is to "find" an Imperial shipment that contains a couple of missile launchers (with only a couple missiles).

On 2017-10-27 at 4:00 PM, Scapino said:

So I'm planning on trying to make things just a little bit easier so it doesn't turn into a party-wipe.

You don't have to do that either. Hutts like to capture their adversaries. They also like them at full health, so they can scream longer If you followed the beginner game, then the PCs initially fled from Teemo because they were tired of working for him or didn't want to have to fight as gladiators, or whatever. So from the Hutt's point of view, capturing them and making them do what they ran away from is just delicious irony.

So you don't have to wipe them out, it's far more cinematic to capture them and have a prison breakout. They will know some, if not all, of the people they end up with, and those NPCs might have attitudes ranging from hostile ("You made everything worse for us!") to allied ("You gave me courage, and I was just waiting for the next chance!"). I really like running prison breaks, because you can leverage a range of social, technical, and combat challenges.

I find hutts being so resistant and good combatants to be counter everything my troupe would believe. A lot of wounds? Yes. A lot of hand to hand skill just because they are big? "Are you crazy?! it is a glorified slug!" I can see them yelling at me in my mind. it is not a good proposition since it is the kind of things that can shatter their confidence in the system. :/ Still, my players are unlikely to take on a hutt head on ever, so that is not THAT big of a problem.

Yeah. My preferred weapon for hutts is a salt shaker.

I've read Bloodline, and I don't remember any explicit reference to using the Dark Side to kill Jabba... do you have a more specific reference, page, quote? It's a pretty big revelation!

Two tips, Both revolve around you, the GM, giving your players information. What they do with it is up to them and they reap the consequences.

• Read through the section again. Specifically about the part where it describes in great detail that super pokey death-shaped chandelier above his head. Make a point to describe it if they get in there, they'll usually take the hint. Or keep it in your back pocket if things are looking bad for the PC's.
• The characters have been to the palace. Make sure to describe all the guards and security, they should know what they are getting into. And yes, You as the GM CAN say straight up to their face "only a fool would thinking of taking this place head on" (though some groups might take it as a challenge). On second thought just a simple statement of "It would be rough trying to take this straight on". If they still take it head on and fail they hopefully wont blame you and instead should learn a lesson about intelligence and planning.

Third tip: Related to #2. If they do come up with a plan, whatever it is, try to accommodate it (if it inst batsh*t crazy insane), even if you hadn't planned on it. Get those creative juices flowing!

Fourth tip: As others have said, if they fail just have them locked up and then they have to escape. Failure does not necessarily equal instant death.

ah I found it in Bloodline, p75 - Leia dug deep to find a reserve of "pure hate". Possible she used the enhance power and a dark side pip, yes.

2 hours ago, Endersai said:

On 10/30/2017 at 0:56 PM, MonCal said:

I find hutts being so resistant and good combatants to be counter everything my troupe would believe. A lot of wounds? Yes. A lot of hand to hand skill just because they are big? "Are you crazy?! it is a glorified slug!" I can see them yelling at me in my mind. it is not a good proposition since it is the kind of things that can shatter their confidence in the system. :/ Still, my players are unlikely to take on a hutt head on ever, so that is not THAT big of a problem.

Keep in mind, there's a lot more to brawling than just your fists. Espoecially when you weigh several thousand pounds.

10 hours ago, Endersai said:

ah I found it in Bloodline, p75 - Leia dug deep to find a reserve of "pure hate". Possible she used the enhance power and a dark side pip, yes.

Quite a bunch of unnecessary revisionism there

Eh, it doesn't seem too bad to me. Makes sense a force sensitive person would end up drawing on the dark side unconsciously when they're committing a violent murder out of hatred. Kinda fits the bill perfectly, really.

Because we cannot do that without being force sensitive, yeah...

Of course people who aren't force sensitive can still have those emotions and behaviours. But it's been explained pretty explicitly throughout the series that revenge, wrath, and murderous intent are pretty strong markers of a force sensitive person drawing on the dark side. And force sensitive people using their powers without realising they're doing so is an established thing, too.

I don't think it's a necessary retroactive inclusion and I don't really think it was George Lucas' intent originally, but it doesn't detract from the existing narrative at all. It's fine.

I'm not sure I like it, but he wasn't wrong in that interpretation. To me it's open ended, and you can take what you want, though the author is leaning heavily in the "something something dark side" direction.

13 hours ago, MonCal said:

Because we cannot do that without being force sensitive, yeah...

Yeah, it's insanely hard to strangle something the size of a manatee without supernatural powers, which Leia is confirmed to have in the previous film when she could sense Luke's presence. Seems like a fairly reasonable thing for Leia to have unknowingly drawn on the Dark Side that seems so prevalent in her family.

15 hours ago, MonCal said:

Quite a bunch of unnecessary revisionism there

If you think THAT'S revisionism, you must be pissed about the cosmetic surgery Disney gave the New Republic and Imperial Remnant!

4 hours ago, Degenerate Mind said:

If you think THAT'S revisionism, you must be pissed about the cosmetic surgery Disney gave the New Republic and Imperial Remnant!

I was upset! The Imperial Remant makes a heck of a lot less sense now!!

How do they have the might and power of the old Empire at the height of it's power with out access to the same places that the Empire had? That was never satisfactorily handled for me.

1 hour ago, Vestij Jai Galaar said:

I was upset! The Imperial Remant makes a heck of a lot less sense now!!

How do they have the might and power of the old Empire at the height of it's power with out access to the same places that the Empire had? That was never satisfactorily handled for me.

Okay, yes. I despise the Death Star 3.0 with the intensity of a thousand suns. The First Order should not be able to surpass Palpatine's Empire in scale. They should not be trying to repeat the clear mistake that was the Tarkin Doctrine. And yet, lo and behold, we see this utter retardation unfolding for the third time in 30 years, and more costly than ever before.

My point was more a stab at a complaint of "a bunch of unnecessary revisionism" in regards to a single sentence about Leia's thoughts while killing Jabba the Hutt. A single sentence that has no sense of finality to it at all, and merely clarifies that Leia was, in fact, incredibly angry while screaming in inarticulate rage she strangled another living being.

Come to think about it, I believe I remember a similar line from the novelization of Episode VI that hinted to Leia drawing on the Dark Side to strangle Jabba as well. I suppose that was just a bunch of unnecessary revisionism, too. No angry Force users here, no siree. Leia was just trying to incapacitate Jabba so he could be taken in for a fair trial. Silly EU, thinking Leia would ever get upset at the slaver that publicly humiliated & groped her, froze her lover alive, and tried to feed her best friend to a monster twice. Just ridiculous.

Not about the new movies, bit it is one of the MANY changes in the old movies that make them worse than they were originally. I would love to have an original non edited version of the movies depicting how they hit the theaters back in the 70s and 80s. Han shooting first, no nonsense in the hangar bay, and stuff like that.

Not making assumptions on what people is pissed about and not is also a good thing. It is better not to project.

Cheers

Xavi

The Despecialised versions of the original trilogy hit pretty **** close to that mark.

Although Disney are supposedly going to bring out the theatrical cuts on Bluray, but I think that's still in rumor territory at the moment.

So Leah, with a brawn of 2, maybe two skills in brawling (Hold onto your suspenders) can max her damage at maybe 4 with REALLY good dice rolls, +1 for the improvised weapon (chain) and OH MY! A force dice that can get her +2 from force pips . . . (does some math) 7 damage? Max?

That still doesn't overcome the Soak of 10 . . .

So, if I were the GM I'd still reduce the Hutt soak considerably.

But I'd make sure he had a good WT & LOTS of body guards & mercenaries.

Honestly I really doubt Leia's murder of Jabba would ever be handled using combat rules. It's like resolving sneak attacks using combat rules; the fiction and the mechanics never actually line up because attack rules are made to be balanced.

Personally I would leave them to deal with their consequences. I would nuke the party with the super tough Hutton profile. It will teach them a lesson. Remember, reducing the entire party to 0 wounds doesn't have to mean a TPK. It just means Tremonti beat them all and wounded them severely. The next stage of your game can be the further consequences. I'm not familiar with Long Arm of the Hutt so I don't really have context but I would make the next part of the game be about the party being indentured to Teemo.

23 hours ago, McHydesinyourpants said:

Personally I would leave them to deal with their consequences. I would nuke the party with the super tough Hutton profile. It will teach them a lesson. Remember, reducing the entire party to 0 wounds doesn't have to mean a TPK. It just means Tremonti beat them all and wounded them severely. The next stage of your game can be the further consequences. I'm not familiar with Long Arm of the Hutt so I don't really have context but I would make the next part of the game be about the party being indentured to Teemo.

Ha. Rereading this no. I hate auto-correct