Now that the Death Knights will soon ravage the lands with charging goodness and Daqan will discover the thrill of arrows, I look across my Daqan holdings and start to think that 200 pts for a tournament army is looking meager.

As we feast on the additions of more interesting forces, fitting into the cloak of 200 pts is feeling more and more tight. But before we entertain this thought too far I think it's important to consider just how much would we want to grow? Going to 250 almost seems like too much. A 30-40 pt jump basically gets you one more unit. As I'm not seeing tournament games time out, the addition of what would be one more unit or perhaps even more upgrades for that mega-ball of death just seems like the right thing for the game.

Back to flocking my force for worlds....

I've always been under the impression (self imposed) it will grow, but not until after all 4 factions are out (lessen sticker shock as you already bought in). You are warned this is not a popular opinion.

I figure 250-300 tops.

Queue hateful lies such as insufficient deployment room.

200 points is fine. The game is about quick battles not massive ones. If there would be too many models on the battlefield it would get extremely crowded.

Less units means there are more opportunities to get behind the enemy lines by maneuvers so the games is about maneuvering not clashing two lines of units and checking who rolls better.

i dont see it happening as of right now but once the 4 factions are built up a bit it might happen.

Main thing i see kicking it off would be Colossal type units (1x2 or 2x2 for 1 model) which i doubt we'd get for along time (then again apparently Legion is getting ATST's right off the freakin bat so what do i know)

I doubt it. They clearly announced with Armada when it released that the 300 point format was not permanent. They spelled out it would go to 400 after wave 2. I’m not aware of any similar proclamation for Runewars

With this technology in plastic I doubt they will go into really big models. And even if they did, it depends on the point cost/stats. I can imagine being able to field a reasonable monster in 200pts.

I like the game at 200 points. What is the point of any point limit if it doesn't force you to make decisions about squad building. If death knight (and every other unit for that matter) are costed by the designer to be the price they are so that you cant have enough points to make a super combo and must choose what side of that combo you are on I think that is brilliant game design.

The most interesting and diverse squads are made because choices have to be made that take out one piece of a super combo, or make it so you can have your super combo, but that's pretty much it.

Edit: if they did dragons and such I would totally be into epic play as well. And I would trust the game designers would have the same design principals so Epic units included would have the same decision making conundrums.

I agree that 200pts feels right and epic level play could be great, but maybe as a separate game/element. MageKnight had something similar back in the day, with larger point battles having Dragons and fortresses and the like.

Epic would also be a good excuse for FFG to release a nice companion or compendium book. Something that could include epic rules, lore, paint guides, etc.

1 hour ago, Church14 said:

I doubt it. They clearly announced with Armada when it released that the 300 point format was not permanent. They spelled out it would go to 400 after wave 2. I’m not aware of any similar proclamation for Runewars

That argument has been debunked in the previous thread by Drasnighta. It is false. The core set rulebook also has no mention of 400, at all. It was announced when it was needed, with wave 2.

(Also told you it was an unpopular opinion OP :D)

Epic would also fall under a proper campaign setting, such as you have a map of *insert random island here* and you battle over strategic areas with battles ranging from 75pt skirmishes in tight areas to 600pts castle sieges.

12 minutes ago, Vineheart01 said:

Epic would also fall under a proper campaign setting, such as you have a map of *insert random island here* and you battle over strategic areas with battles ranging from 75pt skirmishes in tight areas to 600pts castle sieges.

When my league gets big enough i'm going to try and homebrew a campaign like this.

And i was totally not thinking about a WC3 battle when i said that

BTW
https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/3/26/let-the-battles-begin/

This is the article announcing the 400 point increase in armada. Dated 26 March.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/5/14/the-fleet-has-arrived/

This is the announcement of wave 1 being released. Dated 14 May.

From the first link:

"Then, when the first wave of expansions becomes available, Armada tournaments will shift to the utilization of 300-point fleets. Finally, with the arrival of the second wave of Armada expansion, the game will reach its cap at 400-point fleets."

So before they let wave 1 hit the shelves they announced the increase. Which if i know anything about how scheduling works, which I do, that means they had been working on the point increase through the design of the game and balanced wave 1 units for a 400 point game.

So the question is: if there has been no announcement yet what is making people think this announcement is impending? And I think more importantly, what is the dissatisfaction with the 200 point level?

I stated why I like it above, but I aslo will add I like that tournaments don't take all **** day like Armada.

I'll also add if it's not a tournament/organized play event and you don't want to play 200 points, don't. If you and your opponent agree on 400, 600, 1,000, 10,000 great, have fun.

35 minutes ago, Darthain said:

That argument has been debunked in the previous thread by Drasnighta. It is false. The core set rulebook also has no mention of 400, at all. It was announced when it was needed, with wave 2.

(Also told you it was an unpopular opinion OP :D)

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/3/26/let-the-battles-begin/

Spelled out that fleets would be 180, 300, and then 400. Day before Armada release.

EDIT: Ninja’d

I don't mind if it stays at 200, but if we ever get third heroes for factions that 'could' be grounds for a points increase.

20 minutes ago, Church14 said:

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2015/3/26/let-the-battles-begin/

Spelled out that fleets would be 180, 300, and then 400. Day before Armada release.

EDIT: Ninja’d

High 5 research bro! You even got something I missed!

nothing prevents you from just having fun and doing a big game.

Thats why they dont hard limit you to 2 heroes. Its 1 hero per 100pts (standalone not figure upgrade). So if we end up with like 8 heroes you could run an 800pt game with all 8 on their own base if you want.

The thing is, the game is a tight 200, with nothing but 2ish cores and 3 unit types. To keep that level of limitation, while increasing unit types wholesale seems very likely to create a lot of RPS scenarios, which are never desirable. You need to be able to be focused enough to be effective, but at the same time cannot afford blatant blind spots, I really don't feel 200 supports that. (And no, that's not to suggest you should be able to field everything)

As for you Church, I concede, the core rulebook still says 300 though ?.

19 minutes ago, Darthain said:

The thing is, the game is a tight 200, with nothing but 2ish cores and 3 unit types. To keep that level of limitation, while increasing unit types wholesale seems very likely to create a lot of RPS scenarios, which are never desirable. You need to be able to be focused enough to be effective, but at the same time cannot afford blatant blind spots, I really don't feel 200 supports that. (And no, that's not to suggest you should be able to field everything)

As for you Church, I concede, the core rulebook still says 300 though ?.

You aren’t wrong about the core rulebook

25 minutes ago, Darthain said:

The thing is, the game is a tight 200, with nothing but 2ish cores and 3 unit types. To keep that level of limitation, while increasing unit types wholesale seems very likely to create a lot of RPS scenarios, which are never desirable. You need to be able to be focused enough to be effective, but at the same time cannot afford blatant blind spots, I really don't feel 200 supports that. (And no, that's not to suggest you should be able to field everything)

As for you Church, I concede, the core rulebook still says 300 though ?.

You were right about the rule book. He was right about the plan. Call it a draw, shake and move on.

??

As for what 200 points “allows” it feels the same as xwing and armada as far as the squad building decisions. Every FFG game has a rps element. To me that’s a good thing.

example how stupid would rps be if you and your opponent got to throw 2 things? The entire point is if your archetype is weak against another you have to make decisions to minimize that weakness and out play your opponent.

As a long time Armada player I really don't think the comparison exactly holds. Larger epic style play (read Dragons) or other baddies just seem like a natural add. More heros, more unit types, it all seems like it would be within the realm of the possible.

Added up does it point to a possibility that the tournament point increase could happen? I'm not convinced either way. I am just observing that FFG will likely want to promote more units, more possibilities and more fun. The current 200 point limit isn't affecting what is already a pretty quick game player experience. I'm not the fastest player but heck I've never timed out. Ever. More points wouldn't hurt.

These are but bread crumbs, time will tell. The observation above about all the factions being out is a very very important milestone. I don't anticipate that anything 'big' in the game such as point or a larger unit type would happen until after all the 4 functions effectively have an equal number of units. After that tho, that's when I think the window of opportunity opens.

1 minute ago, flightmaster101 said:

You were right about the rule book. He was right about the plan. Call it a draw, shake and move on.

??

Technically they both missed the 500 cap in CC :-b

2 minutes ago, tgall said:

Technically they both missed the 500 cap in CC :-b

Ok fine cause trouble, cause after all it is the internet ????

1 hour ago, tgall said:

Technically they both missed the 500 cap in CC :-b

Campaign didn't happen, moving on ?

You realize you can already play as big a game as you want, right?

The standard competitive game size doesn't really need to change for you to get what you want.