48 minutes ago, Awing Test Pilot said:

What is the point in posting this? Thread started with a question asking for feedback, someone gives feedback, gets told to go away?

I haven't been to my LGS this week so I don't know about old players returning, but I sure dang hope they come back. We've been at record low attendance for the what feels like 3 months. (Just since store champs has been done with if I'm being honest.)

If Nym/Genius was responsible for it, it wouldn't surprise me. I was so filled with anticipation when the Scurrg was initially announced, and when it arrived it was obvious that it would be a problem. Not Jumpmaster levels, but close. I've come to find ways of dealing with him (stress/tractor/ion), and now the FAQ will make it easier.

We need FAQs whether we agree with the content or not. I'm not a competitive guy past Store Championships and would consider myself a tier-6/casual player, but even I think spikes in the power curve need to be smoothed down. It's not fun seeing the same ships/pilots year after year in top spots because testing didn't or couldn't fix the (potential) issues that don't become apparent until after the product is at the printer.

The FAQ is one way to address these issues. It's not perfect, but that's how it is.

And from the sound of it if we're getting some old faces returning, all the better.

1 hour ago, Awing Test Pilot said:

What is the point in posting this? Thread started with a question asking for feedback, someone gives feedback, gets told to go away?

I agree it was rude, but Lupine's arrogance of "I can't be bothered to play homebrew" coupled with "I haven't played in 6 waves and still hate the game but here's my opinion" may have been more bait than Blod could handle. It certainly annoyed me.

4 hours ago, Darth Lupine said:

Which are home brewed rules. Which I never play, no matter how fantastic.

4 hours ago, Darth Lupine said:

I started playing on the original core set release, and stopped around wave six. Still see no reason to play again.

4 hours ago, Jarval said:

In the nicest possible way, why are you still here if you've not played in two and a half years? That's some serious dedication!

Have you seen the Armada forum? They've got practically nothing to discuss that hasn't been driven into the ground already!!!

Signed,

An Armada player

1 hour ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

Until people start bringing back the old meta junk. I'm loving these fixes, but things won't change. People will play what wins and those that don't will whine about the meta and hoping for the next wave to deliver help. I think it's insane that FFG makes these drastic about face changes to their products because the competitive game breaks them. There's way more casual play going on than competitive play. Now all these poor casual players have to take a course at their local community college to figure out all the FAQ over the years. Even with things they just buy and take right out of the box.

People in your area need college classes to figure out how to read a few pages? Man, Common Core just isn't cutting it!

4 minutes ago, Stasy said:

Have you seen the Armada forum? They've got practically nothing to discuss that hasn't been driven into the ground already!!!

Signed,

An Armada player

It's not like we didn't discuss everything here a dozen times

But I recently reread the "picking up dial = game loss" thread. It's amazing still

55 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

People in your area need college classes to figure out how to read a few pages? Man, Common Core just isn't cutting it!

You think reading a few pages will prepare a new player for this game? If you believe that, than I can tell you that FFG has a secret fix for the T-65 that they're waiting to unveil for wave NEVER!

2 hours ago, GrimmyV said:

Flag! 15-yard penalty!

This meme is only correctly used when it’s meant as a compliment while talking to @E Chu Ta

4 minutes ago, NeverBetTheFett said:

You think reading a few pages will prepare a new player for this game? If you believe that, than I can tell you that FFG has a secret fix for the T-65 that they're waiting to unveil for wave NEVER!

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand why some people seem to find the FAQ so confusing. Sure, it may take some time to memorize everything, if you feel you need to, but simply understanding it isn't that big a challenge.

Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet but I do not think it is the FAQ itself bringing players back, but rather FFG's willingness to try and balance the game when certain ships make top tables all the time while others are rarely played.

2 minutes ago, Kijaucey said:

Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet but I do not think it is the FAQ itself bringing players back, but rather FFG's willingness to try and balance the game when certain ships make top tables all the time while others are rarely played.

A very good point. I personally think it is the mix of the two, but that willingness might be the more alluring factor.

Don't worry, we'll figure out how to take away their agency again soon and they will leave...

29 minutes ago, Kijaucey said:

Not sure if anyone mentioned this yet but I do not think it is the FAQ itself bringing players back, but rather FFG's willingness to try and balance the game when certain ships make top tables all the time while others are rarely played.

Well, the FAQ is making me more willing to play, certainly. I just wish it had been at least a month or two earlier.

So far we are net -1 directly related to the FAQ.

41 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I'm sorry, but I really don't understand why some people seem to find the FAQ so confusing. Sure, it may take some time to memorize everything, if you feel you need to, but simply understanding it isn't that big a challenge.

It's pretty daunting at least. Look at the difference between the quickstart and the actual rules then throw in the FAQs. The onus to know is definitely on the player but after this many changes getting into competitive is basically a brick wall. What indication is even there for a new player that you can't trust the actual printed stuff in the starter kits and expacs.

3 minutes ago, McFoy said:

It's pretty daunting at least. Look at the difference between the quickstart and the actual rules then throw in the FAQs. The onus to know is definitely on the player but after this many changes getting into competitive is basically a brick wall. What indication is even there for a new player that you can't trust the actual printed stuff in the starter kits and expacs.

I can see what you mean, but how often are brand new players joining organized events without having ever talked to other players? When a new player shows up to casual game night, how often are people demanding that they play by the FAQ right off the bat, rather than letting them play their list and just explaining that changes have been made? It may happen occasionally, but the former seems rare enough that we shouldn't base an entire philosophy around it, and the latter is a community issue.

I guess the point I'm making is, how necessary is it for a new player to know the entire FAQ by heart? You're playing a few ships, at most. Then someone points out that changes have been made, or you hear about the FAQ another way, and you look up the specific ships and upgrades you're using. Then you see someone playing a ship that you think you remember seeing in the FAQ, and you look that one up, too. It's all a perfectly natural process that happens with any reference document.

People are acting as if it's a book that needs to be read front-to-back and memorized, when it's really just there for you to look up things as needed.

27 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I can see what you mean, but how often are brand new players joining organized events without having ever talked to other players? When a new player shows up to casual game night, how often are people demanding that they play by the FAQ right off the bat, rather than letting them play their list and just explaining that changes have been made? It may happen occasionally, but the former seems rare enough that we shouldn't base an entire philosophy around it, and the latter is a community issue.

I guess the point I'm making is, how necessary is it for a new player to know the entire FAQ by heart? You're playing a few ships, at most. Then someone points out that changes have been made, or you hear about the FAQ another way, and you look up the specific ships and upgrades you're using. Then you see someone playing a ship that you think you remember seeing in the FAQ, and you look that one up, too. It's all a perfectly natural process that happens with any reference document.

People are acting as if it's a book that needs to be read front-to-back and memorized, when it's really just there for you to look up things as needed.

Good points. I agree that it's not necessary to know everything but it's very unintuitive design to overwrite written text. My main problem is that everything is still a mix of physical and digital. I only play Warmachine now and they maintain an app the combines listbuilding and the rules. Any errata they make be it unit stats, cost, or abilities is simply patched and everyone gets it immediately. Any starter kit you buy has the concrete rules included but actual rules don't change between editions. I would much prefer xwing if they used a system like that because then the balance would be actual balance rather than decapitating whatever thing climbs on top. No need to reprint cards. They could still impose their limited cards per expansion if they wanted though that would also be incredibly frustrating.

13 minutes ago, McFoy said:

Good points. I agree that it's not necessary to know everything but it's very unintuitive design to overwrite written text. My main problem is that everything is still a mix of physical and digital. I only play Warmachine now and they maintain an app the combines listbuilding and the rules. Any errata they make be it unit stats, cost, or abilities is simply patched and everyone gets it immediately. Any starter kit you buy has the concrete rules included but actual rules don't change between editions. I would much prefer xwing if they used a system like that because then the balance would be actual balance rather than decapitating whatever thing climbs on top. No need to reprint cards. They could still impose their limited cards per expansion if they wanted though that would also be incredibly frustrating.

An app that incorporated any erratas and clarifications would be rather nice, though I hope they would still provide FAQs and such for people who don't have smartphones.

3 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

An app that incorporated any erratas and clarifications would be rather nice, though I hope they would still provide FAQs and such for people who don't have smartphones.

Next time a company makes an app, I want them to also have a downloadable .exe file online somewhere so you can put it on a laptop. I will use my 10-year -old Windows XP laptop and I will win!

42 minutes ago, JJ48 said:

I can see what you mean, but how often are brand new players joining organized events without having ever talked to other players? When a new player shows up to casual game night, how often are people demanding that they play by the FAQ right off the bat, rather than letting them play their list and just explaining that changes have been made? It may happen occasionally, but the former seems rare enough that we shouldn't base an entire philosophy around it, and the latter is a community issue.

I guess the point I'm making is, how necessary is it for a new player to know the entire FAQ by heart? You're playing a few ships, at most. Then someone points out that changes have been made, or you hear about the FAQ another way, and you look up the specific ships and upgrades you're using. Then you see someone playing a ship that you think you remember seeing in the FAQ, and you look that one up, too. It's all a perfectly natural process that happens with any reference document.

People are acting as if it's a book that needs to be read front-to-back and memorized, when it's really just there for you to look up things as needed.

I'm not sure I would enjoy showing up to play my list and then have someone tell me I've been playing it wrong. It's unsettling, it would probably make the player feel bad they didn't understand the game, and it disrupts the flow of the game to repeatedly note rules adjustments.

The point is that there should not be a reference document at all in a game like this. The rules are supposed to be on the cards. If there was a small FAQ that could be understandable, but the corrections and clarifications are now longer than the basic rules.

7 minutes ago, Darth Meanie said:

I'm not sure I would enjoy showing up to play my list and then have someone tell me I've been playing it wrong. It's unsettling, it would probably make the player feel bad they didn't understand the game, and it disrupts the flow of the game to repeatedly note rules adjustments.

The point is that there should not be a reference document at all in a game like this. The rules are supposed to be on the cards. If there was a small FAQ that could be understandable, but the corrections and clarifications are now longer than the basic rules.

I guess I just have a different outlook. When I played the SWCCG by Decipher, the Special Edition set's thick glossary was what really got me into the game (who knew that prepositions could be so important?! ^_^)!

A growing reference document is simply a natural part of having a living, growing game. If you never errata cards, how do you fix a card when you find out it's broken?

ParaGoomba Slayer is back? Huh?

9 hours ago, heychadwick said:

Its only been a few days, but I've already seen a couple of players that haven't been playing the game in months come back to it. They say it's due to the FAQ.

One guy hadn't played in at least 8 months. I hear things like "think the game will be fun again with the new FAQ".

Anyone else see anything like this in their local area?

Meanwhile we had a guy decide to quit and sell his collection becaues of the FAQ, citing increasing complexity and maintenance, etc with cards changing

1 hour ago, JJ48 said:

A growing reference document is simply a natural part of having a living, growing game. If you never errata cards, how do you fix a card when you find out it's broken?

Growing like a weed.

Errata are fine, but this game in particular seems to be unable to move past any ever growing heap of changes that are listed in an alternate location. Reprinted cards are a must so that the rules are in front of the player.

At this point, there are so many cards with clarifications, you pretty much cannot trust the game components to tell you how to play the game. And, since you need to know which cards are right, which cards are wrong, and what exactly is wrong with them, I'd say you pretty much DO need to have the FAQ memorized.

When a game gets to be a certain size, there are enough of "those players" in the game that otherwise unnecessary things have to go into the FAQ. Things like, "Can I put IG-2000 on my TIE Aggressors?"

I'd estimate that a solid 75% of the FAQ is stuff like that, to some degree or other.