one measure we aren't seeing is which games get lots of fan-piracy...

And while it doesn't match the levels of D&D, WEG Star Wars, Battletech, nor FASA Trek, L5R has a huge presence in troves.

46 minutes ago, AK_Aramis said:

one measure we aren't seeing is which games get lots of fan-piracy...

And while it doesn't match the levels of D&D, WEG Star Wars, Battletech, nor FASA Trek, L5R has a huge presence in troves.

Wow, when fan-piracy is a measure of success you have to wonder about the world we live in. LOL

55 minutes ago, tenchi2a said:

Yeah D&D OA is from two editions ago, but 3.5 it is still the most played (or maybe tie with Pathfinder) edition of D&D as 4th was a bomb, and 5th is still trying to shake off the 4th stigma from D&D.

Curious where you get your numbers, because D&D 5 tops all other official D&D combined, and beats Pathfinder handily, in the online play metric space. That's the most objective number available.

En World and other hotbeds of the OSR often do favorite edition polls and what edition are you playing poll. 5E does quite well (and usually better than 3.x) even there...

5E, per Mike Mearls, sold more units of the core in the first 18 months than there were units sold of "all prior editions"...

2 hours ago, tenchi2a said:

1) Yeah D&D OA is from two editions ago, but 3.5 it is still the most played (or maybe tie with Pathfinder) edition of D&D as 4th was a bomb, and 5th is still trying to shake off the 4th stigma from D&D.

2) I agree Sengoku’s Fuzion system is better by leaps and bounds then any version of L5R system.

And it is more appealing to people looking for a historically correct game.

D20 is more that, everyone has it on their self.

3) You know I have gone back and forth on this .

I've been in the, I'm playing this because my friends are. But you at least need to be able to tolerate the rule of the game or it becomes a chore.

And before anyone says it I'm not attacking the beta, I was referring to Playing D&D d20 (which I hate) with my friends.

As for the still in print one I think ebay an nostalgia can get people into a game as well. Example: one of the players or the GM see a game on ebay that they remember from their younger day and gets it to run for the group.

I have found if the books are still available, the completeness of a dead RPG line can be a draw just as much as the new book smell.

as you know what your getting from the start.

1) I do see 3rd ed still being played, but not as much as Pathfinder or 5th ed. 4E is pretty much dead, but did get played until 5th ed came out. It always comes down to supported games getting more interest. Groups that are still using 3rd ed rules don’t play OA though, as far as I can tell. D20 OA was just not a very good product compared to other niche settings, and it doesn’t have the mass appeal the Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance have.

2) Fuzion is a great system, but can be difficult to get into. Sengoku’s setting is as complex as Rokugan is. All in all, not a great argument to get players to pick it up.

3) if you just can’t enjoy a system you’ll drop it - but you typically don’t find out until after you’ve given it a try. And sure, there are certainly players who don’t mind picking up something out of print (or even stuff they want just to have it, like I picked up the 40K lines despite being sure I probably would never get to play them with the groups I was in at the time). Those numbers tend to be negligible though. It takes more than that to be profitable.

1 hour ago, tenchi2a said:

Wow, when fan-piracy is a measure of success you have to wonder about the world we live in. LOL

It's not a happy metric, but for some of the games (EG FASA Trek), it's the only way people can get them; for others (EG: Star Wars), it's the only way to get electronic formats. I go digging on safari for Far Future Enterprises... so C&D's can be delivered ... or at least used to.

It is, however, a measure of success. It's hard to find less well-known titles, and harder still to find their supplements. I fully expect the continued piracy of WEG SW d6 to be behind the offering of a reprint of the core.

8 hours ago, AK_Aramis said:

It's not a happy metric, but for some of the games (EG FASA Trek), it's the only way people can get them; for others (EG: Star Wars), it's the only way to get electronic formats. I go digging on safari for Far Future Enterprises... so C&D's can be delivered ... or at least used to.

There is always ebay. I have found that most of the RPG, even the really old ones are on there most of the time.

But I do understand the EG: Star Wars thing.

8 hours ago, nameless ronin said:

1) I do see 3rd ed still being played, but not as much as Pathfinder or 5th ed. 4E is pretty much dead, but did get played until 5th ed came out. It always comes down to supported games getting more interest. Groups that are still using 3rd ed rules don’t play OA though, as far as I can tell. D20 OA was just not a very good product compared to other niche settings, and it doesn’t have the mass appeal the Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance have.

Must just be this area then since I have only hear of one 5th edition game in town and it ended and they went back to 3.5.

4th didn't even last that long in the gaming groups around here.

As for D20 OA I have seen it used mostly for Forgotten Realms Kara-Tur.

And one L5R campaign that the guy is running in Rokugan D20 which I count as OA as you need both books.

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2) Fuzion is a great system, but can be difficult to get into. Sengoku’s setting is as complex as Rokugan is. All in all, not a great argument to get players to pick it up.

Never found it to be that hard, but I do own the book so it could be that I just know the system and don't notice it anymore.

Have the same problem with Shatterzone, players are new and I know the game already so I tend to miss when they need some rule help.

Luckily they have finally got it through their heads to ask when then don't understand a rule.

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3) if you just can’t enjoy a system you’ll drop it - but you typically don’t find out until after you’ve given it a try. And sure, there are certainly players who don’t mind picking up something out of print (or even stuff they want just to have it, like I picked up the 40K lines despite being sure I probably would never get to play them with the groups I was in at the time). Those numbers tend to be negligible though. It takes more than that to be profitable.

I was more talking about myself here then it being an average thing.

Truth is I am finding few and few new games that I like.

I find some of the older games of my youth are far superior to what a lot of companies are putting out today.

Games like Shatterzone, Shadowrun, Twilight 2000, etc. have become our groups go to games.

I think it my have to do with the time.

Back in the day, outside of TSR most companies where these little garage shops that produced games because they loved RPG.

8 hours ago, AK_Aramis said:

Curious where you get your numbers, because D&D 5 tops all other official D&D combined, and beats Pathfinder handily, in the online play metric space. That's the most objective number available.

Not sure I follow this what is the online play metric space?

Never heard of it and it did not show up in a search.

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En World and other hotbeds of the OSR often do favorite edition polls and what edition are you playing poll. 5E does quite well (and usually better than 3.x) even there...

As has been said here, you can't always trust an online poll.

Quote

5E, per Mike Mearls, sold more units of the core in the first 18 months than there were units sold of "all prior editions"...

This I have to take with a grain of salt, as hes the head of design for the 5th edition of the game.

I would have to ask if this was total sold to distributors or some sales figure of actual units sold to customer.

Add to this that D&D is one of only a few RPG that is sold thru mass market bookstore, and you can have some skewed numbers.

Go to your local B&N and you can normally find one or two copies of each of the core books on the shelves.

And most game stores keep a copy or two of each book, as it is D&D.

6 hours ago, tenchi2a said:

Not sure I follow this what is the online play metric space?

Never heard of it and it did not show up in a search.

It means how many groups show up if you go looking for an online group to join. For instance, right now on roll20.net if you look for a 3.5 group to join you have 13 options, Pathfinder 35, and 5E over 300. Any individual location will be different based on the locals’ preferences, but online presence should tend towards the average as other than time zones they take location out as a parameter.

5 hours ago, nameless ronin said:

It means how many groups show up if you go looking for an online group to join. For instance, right now on roll20.net if you look for a 3.5 group to join you have 13 options, Pathfinder 35, and 5E over 300. Any individual location will be different based on the locals’ preferences, but online presence should tend towards the average as other than time zones they take location out as a parameter.

Ok don't RPG online so never heard of it.

I don't use those ressources, so I can't really confirm or infirm what previous posters have said, but the listing given is for games who accepts new players. They may be dozens, even hundred, of games who are ongoing and not taking new players. For the Star Wars game I did online (the only online one I did) we didn't advertize anywhere nor welcomed anyone. We were all friends of the GM who took us and only us for his game.

At my local store, Pathfinder is still selling strong and we have a game there every two weeks (and I play another campaign in another club once per month). Fifth has one once per month table at best and sells correctly... But that only what i can see. Without the real selling numbers, we can't really tell much about how they perform...

50 minutes ago, okuma said:

I don't use those ressources, so I can't really confirm or infirm what previous posters have said, but the listing given is for games who accepts new players. They may be dozens, even hundred, of games who are ongoing and not taking new players. For the Star Wars game I did online (the only online one I did) we didn't advertize anywhere nor welcomed anyone. We were all friends of the GM who took us and only us for his game.

At my local store, Pathfinder is still selling strong and we have a game there every two weeks (and I play another campaign in another club once per month). Fifth has one once per month table at best and sells correctly... But that only what i can see. Without the real selling numbers, we can't really tell much about how they perform...

Since I had no knowledge of the site I could not comment, but thank you for you insight on the subject.

As that is for the most part what I have see here also.

One note: PF DOES have a pseudo-japanese setting, created by Rite Publishing called Kaidan.

1 hour ago, Daigotsu Naraku said:

One note: PF DOES have a pseudo-japanese setting, created by Rite Publishing called Kaidan.

Am I understanding this right?

To me it sounds like a Ravenloft version of a Japanese setting.

I ask because it kind of sounds cool, and I would be interested if it wasn't D20.

Do you think it would convert to Sengoku well?

It would. I was using it for L5R. Just throw out the stuff you don't want/need, like PF's fantasy races, and use the rest as you wish.

1 minute ago, Daigotsu Naraku said:

It would. I was using it for L5R. Just throw out the stuff you don't want/need, like PF's fantasy races, and use the rest as you wish.

Does it use standard Japanese demons/monsters/ghost or will I need to create them?

It's got all of them, from what i've seen so far... Tengu, Kappa, Hengeyokai, Fox-wives, etc. Check it out on DrivethruRPG.

On 4/1/2018 at 1:07 AM, okuma said:

I don't use those ressources, so I can't really confirm or infirm what previous posters have said, but the listing given is for games who accepts new players. They may be dozens, even hundred, of games who are ongoing and not taking new players. For the Star Wars game I did online (the only online one I did) we didn't advertize anywhere nor welcomed anyone. We were all friends of the GM who took us and only us for his game.

At my local store, Pathfinder is still selling strong and we have a game there every two weeks (and I play another campaign in another club once per month). Fifth has one once per month table at best and sells correctly... But that only what i can see. Without the real selling numbers, we can't really tell much about how they perform...

The totals are published several times per year, and include both open and closed games. Simply put, 5E dusts all other D&D's together, and Pathfinder, Pathfinder dusts all non-5E D&D flavors individually, and about equal to all non-5E D&D's combined. FFG Star Wars is about on-par with Pathfinder.

While the online playspace isn't identical to the FTF playspace in numbers, it mirrors sales data fairly well.

The ICV2 numbers show 5E firmly planted WELL above Pathfinder since launch. It's a race for 2nd & 3rd between FFG's Star Wars, 40K, and Pathfinder, and now Starfinder replacing 40K; we'll have to wait for C7's Warhammer games to see if they can catch the lightning and fly...

for my future campaign, will directly reset to ed1 timeline... fed up with cards players deliriums and nonsenses

Boy, this sure went off the rails.