With the Gunboat hitting us soon, I struggle to see why you would ever choose a Tie Punisher, even for fun gameplay. How about this: The Tie punisher gets reload and can shoot at 3 different targets per round (maybe it has to use 3 different ways to do so, so no tripple spamming unhinged missiles). Make that ship really feel like an all ammo unloading beast. I don't think its that crazy, you wold both need to catch 3 of your opponents ships in arc and you can still only have TL on one, so you would need to use both TL and focus based ammo. Maybe your primary weapon attack for the 3rd attack.

What do you think, is this enough to make the Punisher relevant?

18 minutes ago, Dwing said:

With the Gunboat hitting us soon, I struggle to see why you would ever choose a Tie Punisher, even for fun gameplay. How about this: The Tie punisher gets reload and can shoot at 3 different targets per round (maybe it has to use 3 different ways to do so, so no tripple spamming unhinged missiles). Make that ship really feel like an all ammo unloading beast. I don't think its that crazy, you wold both need to catch 3 of your opponents ships in arc and you can still only have TL on one, so you would need to use both TL and focus based ammo. Maybe your primary weapon attack for the 3rd attack.

What do you think, is this enough to make the Punisher relevant?

That would be bonkers, but I do like the thematic idea of it.

The Punisher is dead in the water at the moment. This could be enough to make it sort of useful. Not everyone would fancy it as they can still be a points sink that can be focused down. But maybe some will find a place for it.

I actually don't think its as bonkers as it sounds. You would probably need long range scanners to choose a target early. Then you need to actually catch 2-3 ships in your arc and have a focus to fire for example unguided missiles. Then, if youre lucky, you still have that focus for a third primary weapons attack. That's a lot of ifs, and it still don't make the Punisher any more survivable. But it is very thematic with it just unloading its tubes in a general direction

TIE Interdictor
Title, TIE Punisher only
Once per round, after you perform an attack you may spend a Target Lock you have on an enemy ship.
If you do so you may perform an attack against that ship with a weapon you have not used this round.

All your Missile and Torpedo Upgrades cost 0 Points

Cost: 8 Points

2 minutes ago, Hannes Solo said:

TIE Interdictor
Title, TIE Punisher only
Once per round, after you perform an attack you may spend a Target Lock you have on an enemy ship.
If you do so you may perform an attack against that ship with a weapon you have not used this round.

All your Missile and Torpedo Upgrades cost 0 Points

Cost: 8 Points

So for 8 points you'd load up your ship (obviously you'd spend more than 8 to make it worthwhile), and then get a nice second shot ability.

3 minutes ago, Dwing said:

I actually don't think its as bonkers as it sounds. You would probably need long range scanners to choose a target early. Then you need to actually catch 2-3 ships in your arc and have a focus to fire for example unguided missiles. Then, if youre lucky, you still have that focus for a third primary weapons attack. That's a lot of ifs, and it still don't make the Punisher any more survivable. But it is very thematic with it just unloading its tubes in a general direction

I meant bonkers as in the visual of unloaded tubes

I like the idea of giving the Punisher something unique.

3 minutes ago, Hannes Solo said:

TIE Interdictor
Title, TIE Punisher only
Once per round, after you perform an attack you may spend a Target Lock you have on an enemy ship.
If you do so you may perform an attack against that ship with a weapon you have not used this round.

All your Missile and Torpedo Upgrades cost 0 Points

Cost: 8 Points

It has potential, but I think allowing to shoot twice with ordnance at the same ship is to brutal.

Trajectory Simulator is the punisher fix.

I fail to see how dropping bombs further back fixes it?

2 minutes ago, Dwing said:

I fail to see how dropping bombs further back fixes it? Anymore than the common tie bomber?

I read 'launch' as a 5 straight out of the front. That would be interesting.

4 minutes ago, Dwing said:

It has potential, but I think allowing to shoot twice with ordnance at the same ship is to brutal.

Probably yes I'd think you my limit it to 'After you performed a Primary Weapon Attack'

9 minutes ago, SDCC said:

I read 'launch' as a 5 straight out of the front. That would be interesting.

I have seen people talk about this. I don't think launch is other than a more descriptive word of why the bomb is no longer just dropped behind you, but launched further away. I think the launching forward is reading to much into the card, but time will tell, I wont defend FFG wording

2 minutes ago, Dwing said:

I have seen people talk about this. I don't think lauch is other than a more descriptive word of why the bomb is no longer just dropped behind you, but launched further away. I think the launching forward is reading to much into the card, but time will tell, I wont defend FFG wording

Launch feels like launching out of the front, as opposed to dropping behind you. But we do need FFG to clear it up. I hear ya on FFG wording!

3 minutes ago, Dwing said:

I have seen people talk about this. I don't think lauch is other than a more descriptive word of why the bomb is no longer just dropped behind you, but launched further away. I think the launching forward is reading to much into the card, but time will tell, I wont defend FFG wording

In that case, it's even more of a Punisher fix- strictly speaking, a deathrain fix

Some Ideas I have for the Punisher (and other Ordnance carriers)


##### Standardized Ordnance #####
Modification

Your Torpedo and Missile Upgrades cost 0 Points.
You may equipt another Modification
Cost: 7 Points
###########################

I look at this like a powerful Cannon. HLC costs 7 and is on pair with something like an Proton Torpedo or a Concussion Missile.

##### Ordnance Magazines #####
Torpedo and Missile

Your Action Bar gains the Reload Action
Cost: 0 Points
##########################
So a Punisher or a Bomber can get reload with on Torp and one Missile slot left for Ordnance

##### TIE Interdictor #####
Title, TIE Punisher only

Title, TIE Punisher only
Once per round, after you perform an primary weapon attack you may spend a Target Lock you have on an enemy ship.
If you do so you may perform an attack against that ship with a secondary weapon.

If your PS is 4 or higher you gain an EPT Slot

Cost: 0

##########################################

Note that this is mostly an Redline and to lesser extend a black 8 fix, while it is not that good for Deathrain.

You want FCS with this (No Bomb Trajector thing) and not Redline Punishers would need Deadeye to make most Ordnance work with the double tap. AlsoYou have little to no Mods for the attacks.

I've thought of several. The title I quite like, the bomb mod I'm less sure of, but with eway they need something that lets them take any number of 0 points mods and a 2 point mod. I'm also inclined to say that a 2-missile-2-torp upgrade that delivers infinite 4 die range 1-3 fully modifiable shots would at this point not be broken as a way to make Punishers and Bombers work. Or just increases their primaries by one or even two.

TIE/it

Title, TIE Punisher only. 0 points. Dual card.

TIE/it: Targetting Laser Pods: After attacking, you may make an attack with an equipped secondary weapon.

When equipped secondary weapons require you to discard them, do not do so.

TIE/it: Expanded Mine Pods: When you would discard a [bomb] upgrade to drop a bomb, you may either drop two identical tokens, one using the [1 bank right] template and 1 using the [1 bank left] template or you may choose not to do discard the upgrade.

Modification, 0 points, Imperial only. When a bomb token you dropped detonates , choose one ship affected by the detonation. Assign that ship stress and focus tokens until it has at least one of each.

When you are ionised, treat the 1 straight manoeuvre you perform as green.

You may equip any number of additional modification upgrades. The total squad points you spend on modification upgrades cannot exceed 2.

OR

Modification, 0 points, Imperial only. After you drop a [bomb] upgrade, you may perform a free action from your action bar.

When you are ionised, treat the 1 straight manoeuvre you perform as green.

You may equip any number of additional modification upgrades. The total squad points you spend on modification upgrades cannot exceed 2.

Here's my take on it:

TIE/IT

Title. TIE Punisher only.

Once per round when instructed to discard an ordnance card, don't discard that card.

When attacking with a secondary weapon, you may discard that card to perform that attack a second time.

If your pilot skill is "3" or higher your upgrade bar gains the elite icon.

18 minutes ago, RufusDaMan said:

Here's my take on it:

TIE/IT

Title. TIE Punisher only.

Once per round when instructed to discard an ordnance card, don't discard that card.

When attacking with a secondary weapon, you may discard that card to perform that attack a second time.

If your pilot skill is "3" or higher your upgrade bar gains the elite icon.

I do think that double Ordnance Attacks without restrictions can get out of hand. We do not want to have U-Boats reloaded.

With yout Attempt I would build this:

Black 8 Squdron 23 +1+5+2 = 31 if TIE/IT costs 0 I add Extra Munitions and stay at 33 Points for 3 of these.
TIE/IT (2?), Dead Eye (1), Homing Missile (5) FCS (2) GC (0)

On the first Round I take a focus and will get a Homing Missile of get a target lock and shoot another.
So I get 2 Homing Missiles on one target with 1 Focus, 1 TL (on the second) and 1 GC to spend as mods and the enemy cant use evades.

And I can have 3 of these I think that would be overkill.

I agree that trajectory simulator is likely to be a launch out the front and will give punishers an interesting role.

i did a game a couple weeks back where I used 3 of them with unguided rockets, LWF, 2 with proton bombs and 1 with bomblet. It was a good fun game, it needs practice and while I don’t think it will be top tier it can do well. I think that 1 well placed punisher in the right squad could be interesting and we might well see occasional use of them competitively.

1 minute ago, Hannes Solo said:

I do think that double Ordnance Attacks without restrictions can get out of hand. We do not want to have U-Boats reloaded.

With yout Attempt I would build this:

Black 8 Squdron 23 +1+4+2 = 30 if TIE/IT costs 0 I add Extra Munitions and stay at 33 Points for 3 of these.
TIE/IT (2?), Dead Eye (1), Homing Missile (5) FCS (2) GC (0)

On the first Round I take a focus and will get a Homing Missile of get a target lock and shoot another.
So I get 2 Homing Missiles on one target with 1 Focus, 1 TL (on the second) and 1 GC to spend as mods and the enemy cant use evades.

And I can have 3 of these I think that would be overkill.

Thing is, the ship is still pretty bad, and you can do nothing but 1 double salvo with that build. Which is powerful, but difficult to manage and you most definitely lose after that.

Btw 2 points sound right.

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

I'm also inclined to say that a 2-missile-2-torp upgrade that delivers infinite 4 die range 1-3 fully modifiable shots would at this point not be broken as a way to make Punishers and Bombers work. Or just increases their primaries by one or even two.

Loaded for Anything: Missile Missile Torp Torp. Action: acquire a target lock or focus token. Increase your primary weapon value by two until the end of the round. Cost ????? 6 or 7.

3 minutes ago, RufusDaMan said:

Thing is, the ship is still pretty bad, and you can do nothing but 1 double salvo with that build. Which is powerful, but difficult to manage and you most definitely lose after that.

Btw 2 points sound right.

I would argue that after 6 modified homing missiles you would have won the game. Also you could take a Cruise missile for the Homing Missile and add EM.
You could only use the CM with 4 Dice wich would end like the HM but the Enemy could use Evades. You have one round of 6 4Red Attacks and after that keep the CM.

26 minutes ago, Hannes Solo said:

I would argue that after 6 modified homing missiles you would have won the game. Also you could take a Cruise missile for the Homing Missile and add EM.
You could only use the CM with 4 Dice wich would end like the HM but the Enemy could use Evades. You have one round of 6 4Red Attacks and after that keep the CM.

It's a PS 4 ship with no defenses or mobility to speak of. Most list can avoid them, or even remove a ship before it could fire.

But you are right... Bringing three is a bit too much. Maybe raise the cost?

3 minutes ago, RufusDaMan said:

It's a PS 4 ship with no defenses or mobility to speak of. Most list can avoid them, or even remove a ship before it could fire.

But you are right... Bringing three is a bit too much. Maybe raise the cost?

Last thing the Punisher needs is more cost. I would say make it a Primary - Secondary Double tap as in my proposal (probably without the extra TL requirement). Its not the 'all killing' Alpha burst but consistent firepower. With FCS you get around the 'How can I get the TL I need for my ordnance problem' Its especially good for Redline while it doesn't push Deathrain that much caus he cant use the TP and FCS at the same time.

Another Idea would be to give it the Reinforce Action to boost the defences.

Just now, Hannes Solo said:

Last thing the Punisher needs is more cost. I would say make it a Primary - Secondary Double tap as in my proposal (probably without the extra TL requirement). Its not the 'all killing' Alpha burst but consistent firepower. With FCS you get around the 'How can I get the TL I need for my ordnance problem' Its especially good for Redline while it doesn't push Deathrain that much caus he cant use the TP and FCS at the same time.

Another Idea would be to give it the Reinforce Action to boost the defences.

I feel like that's infringing on TIE/D territory. And they are doing it better.

But it would be such a conveniant way to gain yout TL without wasting your EPT slot on deadeye.

So How about

##### TIE / It #####
Title, TIE Punisher only

Once per round, after you perform an primary weapon attack you may perform a secondary weapon attack.
Your Action Bar gains the Reinforce Action
If your PS is 3 or higher you gain an EPT Slot

Cost: 2
#################

Together with

##### Ordnance Magazines #####
Torpedo and Missile

Your Action Bar gains the Reload Action
Cost: 0 Points
##########################


You could build this

__________Fat RED________

Redline (27) + 19 = 46 Points
TIE/It (2), Expertise (4), Proton Torpedo (4), Cluster Missile (4) Ordnance Magazines (0) FCS (2) GC (0) Bomblet Generator (3)

You can take Reinforce on your approache at R3 you attack with a 2Red + Expertise and when follow up with a Torpedo of doom (Expertise + TL + GC + TorpMod).
Next round you use the Cluster Rockets

After that you reinforce you back and try to get out of there using the bomblets to demotivate persecutors. If you manage to get out of range you reload and re-approach.
Sounds like fun to me I would fly him with two gunboats or to Interceptors as escort.