1 hour ago, Stoneface said:

You do realise that the devs rely on playtesters? Did you listen to the podcast where the devs were interviewed? They wear more than one hat.

In a perfect world, there would be enough time to get things right. But, alas, this world is far from perfect and small things like release dates, production schedules, the "go ahead" from bosses and limited development times all play a part in this symphony, that at times is out of tune.

How long do you think you would be employed if the bosses came to you and asked "is it done yet"? "No, it's not right" doesn't cut it when you missed your production window. I've been around long enough to know that "we'll fix it in the field" is an acceptable but less than ideal response. As the game becomes more complicated, expect more OP combos to show up. It's bound to happen. Nym with Genius? A mech that literally was never seen in a game being OP? I never would've foreseen that combo.

Venting and legitimate criticism of the game or parts of it are fine but lay off the developers. Their job is hard enough without people calling them names.

Who’s name calling?

If the playtesters aren’t catching it, then they need better play testers. And if the play testers are catching it, then there’s a bigger problem.

6 hours ago, JJ48 said:

When I was a web developer, I had a lot of conversations that went like this:

Manager: Hey, for that new app, could you add feature X?

Me: The new app doesn't need feature X.

Manager: Yeah, but we really want it on there.

Me: Ok, but I'm just going to warn you that it's going to significantly slow down the app.

Manager: We don't care! Just make sure the app has feature X!

-----One week after the app releases-----

Manager: So...people are complaining that the new app is too slow.

Me: Yes. Because of feature X, which you insisted had to be included.

Manager: Is it absolutely vital to the app? Could we remove it?

Me: <sigh> I'll get right on it.

Manager: Great! Oh, and if you can remove it without removing any of its functionality, that would be perfect!

Me: ...

----------

I guess my point is, developers aren't the only ones who can mess things up.

EXACTLY! Someone who's been there and has the scars to prove it.

5 hours ago, Boris_the_Dwarf said:

Who’s name calling?

If the playtesters aren’t catching it, then they need better play testers. And if the play testers are catching it, then there’s a bigger problem.

Boris, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. The whole string of events,from ideation through development, play testing and debugging is allotted a finite amount of time. That slice of time may not be enough to catch the OP combos and still make it to production and printing. FFG is trying to keep a release schedule of X number of expansions per year. We don't know if that's a contractual obligation or a goal the company set for itself. Regardless of the reason things will slip through. There's more players than playtesters and we're more likely to find the OP combos the devs missed.

I agree with you that the game is not perfect and some real doozies of mistakes got released. Calling the developers incompetent is really unfair for, despite the problems, they have given us a great game.

11 hours ago, Stoneface said:

Boris, I think you missed the point I was trying to make. The whole string of events,from ideation through development, play testing and debugging is allotted a finite amount of time. That slice of time may not be enough to catch the OP combos and still make it to production and printing. FFG is trying to keep a release schedule of X number of expansions per year. We don't know if that's a contractual obligation or a goal the company set for itself. Regardless of the reason things will slip through. There's more players than playtesters and we're more likely to find the OP combos the devs missed.

I agree with you that the game is not perfect and some real doozies of mistakes got released. Calling the developers incompetent is really unfair for, despite the problems, they have given us a great game.

Oh, I see. Well I will let the facts speak for themselves on that one. I said incompetence is real. Perhaps it is the developers who are under too much pressure. Or perhaps play testers aren’t up to the task. Or maybe it is outside influence, such as a department head or CEO or Disney. In any case, yes - the backbone of the game is solid but more recently we’ve seen a series of mistakes that have to constantly be fixed. Not just X-Wing, either. We’ve seen it happen in multiple games across multiple platforms. And on the heels of every errata is a new release that most of the time would have solved the problem anyway but is now a problem of its own.

10.000 years old himalayen salt (best before 10/2018)

On 10/25/2017 at 11:20 PM, FlyingAnchors said:

Best way to cure salt?

Breakfast.

bacon.jpg

pancakes.jpg

eggs.jpg

ommelt.jpg

You forgot the best one

cinnamon bun dough in the waffle maker.gif

Just as the dark side is an aspect of The Force, salt is an aspect of The Flavor.

One should seek both sweet and savory to bring balance to The Flavor.

46 minutes ago, Boris_the_Dwarf said:

Oh, I see. Well I will let the facts speak for themselves on that one. I said incompetence is real. Perhaps it is the developers who are under too much pressure. Or perhaps play testers aren’t up to the task. Or maybe it is outside influence, such as a department head or CEO or Disney. In any case, yes - the backbone of the game is solid but more recently we’ve seen a series of mistakes that have to constantly be fixed. Not just X-Wing, either. We’ve seen it happen in multiple games across multiple platforms. And on the heels of every errata is a new release that most of the time would have solved the problem anyway but is now a problem of its own.

There are a slew of reasons why unbalanced material can enter a game. No matter the entry points, I see this FAQ as both a fix for problems as well as an acceptance that there were issues in the development process. The changes to the JM5k have been huge and that can’t feel good to the devs.

My hope is that those who run the FAQ are also the prime shot callers for development ongoing. Otherwise there are no lessons learned.

I’ve typed this many a time, but again, I come to...why not keep the rules as-is and simply redo the point costs? Make a living tourney point cost doc online. All the apps can import those #s and we need only worry about that. I can ask an opponent if we will use “as-printed” or “tournament” point costs and then we are set.

19 hours ago, JJ48 said:

When I was a web developer, I had a lot of conversations that went like this...

I hear that, buddy...

Did no one mention...

Sea salt? The salt of those that hate every change no matter how big or small. And will play the next, in this case, Regionals winner list as their main list. Because they see (sea) it. Online.

On 10/26/2017 at 0:36 PM, Boris_the_Dwarf said:

Imagine at your job if the people who paid you for the work you do had to continually come back to you and ask you to redo it. Every. Single. Time. How long do you think you would be employed? If you were selling a product, how long do you think people would buy that product if it was constantly full of errors or difficult to use? Well, four years seems to be the minimum by FFG standards.

I get that some people feel the need to poke fun at people who are frustrated with change. Change is part of life. But so is incompetence. Try to take this next statement to heart: unless you are an FFG employee reading this, the people who are frustrated are not frustrated with YOU. They are on the same side as you. You both gave FFG money for a product the company determined to be defective. Other places would issue a recall. FFG made it the community’s problem to hash out among ourselves.

And they go right on taking our money because we refuse to demand better from them.

*disclaimer* I realized that there is no way I can say what I'm about to say without coming off like a ****. It's not intended that way. *end disclaimer*

First of all, I agree with the underlying premise of your post; i.e., if people do a bad job they lose their jobs. I take exception to a few other points, however. First of all, not every job is comparable. In my career, if I screw up it can be anything from no harm, no foul all the way up to being sued, professional sanctions, or jail. No one is suing a freaking game designer over the fact that one plastic toy spaceship they designed is perfectly balanced against other plastic toy spaceships. Not successfully anyway.

I also take issue with your supposition that what has happened is so egregious that it deserves termination or boycotts. X-Wing has become a complicated game that just gets more complicated with each wave. Stuff falls through the cracks, and FFG has to weigh whether a more extensive, more time consuming, more expensive playtesting schedule is worth it compared to a shorter length of time between releases. They do well enough in my opinion.

And finally, here is why saltiness is a bad thing. If you invest enough of your sense of self into a hobby engaged in for fun and entertainment that you get legitimately angry at changes or mistakes, then you need to take a step back. This is a game. The point of a game is to have fun. (I have used "you" to refer to people generally, not anyone specifically)

If I never played X-Wing again, I wouldn't regret the money I spent on the ships. Not only are the minis sweet to have, but I have had more than enough fun and enjoyment out of them to qualify (in my mind) as a solid return on investment. If people don't feel the same way, don't send good money after bad, just get out and find a different outlet for your leisure time that rewards your investment properly.

2 hours ago, FatherTurin said:

*disclaimer* I realized that there is no way I can say what I'm about to say without coming off like a ****. It's not intended that way. *end disclaimer*

First of all, I agree with the underlying premise of your post; i.e., if people do a bad job they lose their jobs. I take exception to a few other points, however. First of all, not every job is comparable. In my career, if I screw up it can be anything from no harm, no foul all the way up to being sued, professional sanctions, or jail. No one is suing a freaking game designer over the fact that one plastic toy spaceship they designed is perfectly balanced against other plastic toy spaceships. Not successfully anyway.

I also take issue with your supposition that what has happened is so egregious that it deserves termination or boycotts. X-Wing has become a complicated game that just gets more complicated with each wave. Stuff falls through the cracks, and FFG has to weigh whether a more extensive, more time consuming, more expensive playtesting schedule is worth it compared to a shorter length of time between releases. They do well enough in my opinion.

And finally, here is why saltiness is a bad thing. If you invest enough of your sense of self into a hobby engaged in for fun and entertainment that you get legitimately angry at changes or mistakes, then you need to take a step back. This is a game. The point of a game is to have fun. (I have used "you" to refer to people generally, not anyone specifically)

If I never played X-Wing again, I wouldn't regret the money I spent on the ships. Not only are the minis sweet to have, but I have had more than enough fun and enjoyment out of them to qualify (in my mind) as a solid return on investment. If people don't feel the same way, don't send good money after bad, just get out and find a different outlet for your leisure time that rewards your investment properly.

You would have been more rude and more effective and more on point if you just told him to that the wheaton rule applies to Boris posts. ;-)

On 10/27/2017 at 7:43 PM, SEApocalypse said:

You would have been more rude and more effective and more on point if you just told him to that the wheaton rule applies to Boris posts. ;-)

So being rude is the solution. FFG is laughing all the way to the bank.