Before the accusations go flying that I'm a doomsayer or complainer, I want to first establish that I've actually never put Attani Mindlink in any of my lists. Outside of the typical Manaroo lists, I'm not all that sure where Attani Mindlink is useful. And now, with the nerf, I'm looking at it and thinking: "A cost of 2 points, 2 EPT slots, and sharing stress tokens... and you gain only 1 focus token per round?"

Granted, there are other ways to trick the game into giving you more than one focus token, but those ways are either Manaroo or you have to go about building your whole list around moving focus tokens around (a la Overclocked R4 or Leeachos--and when was the last time you thought about putting him in a squadron??). Manaroo's continued use for Attani Mindlink is obvious. But is Attani Mindlink still useful outside of Manaroo/Dengar lists? What would you have to do now to get more than 1 focus token per round out of it? (Help me see that the nerf didn't cement its only usefulness into Manaroo/Dengar)

I think thats the point of the change, you have to be smarter with your choices rather than everyone do what you want, all I need to do is have 1 stress free ship for full mods for everyone in the list. As all changes lately, FFG are trying to take the easy mode out of the game to make people fly better. From /X7's to now Genius, you cant just hurr durr on your dial and get rewarded for it. I like these changes, I think it's good for the game in general. Now for them to make Agi matter again

It's still useful on some builds; namely, those that can auto-generate focus tokens. Palob, Guri, Kaato etc can share the love.

It'd consider it where you want extra action economy, but are really pushed for points.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Dengar and Manaroo only two ships?

You kidding????

Dengaroo

You can still mind link Dengar and Fenn. Or Fenn and Inaldra.

Dengar Tel.

Would you ever run Dengar/Tel or Dengaroo now with the Jumpmaster nerf? An entire list with 5 red dice and 0 ordnance seems hard to make work unless there's a really great 3rd ship you can add in and have no better EPT to put in there.

15 minutes ago, Sithborg said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Dengar and Manaroo only two ships?

They are indeed. And while I'm not sure they'd be a top tier list, I'm gonna throw 'em together for flavor reasons.

Would anyone mind if the mindlink nerf, instead of saying "limited to 2 per list" it said "limited to 2 per list, but expandable to 3 if all the ships equipping it are small based ships"? It avoids the obvious dominating lists and gives those fun Guri/Palob/3rd ship lists a bit more durability/punch.

1 minute ago, darthlurker said:

Would anyone mind if the mindlink nerf, instead of saying "limited to 2 per list" it said "limited to 2 per list, but expandable to 3 if all the ships equipping it are small based ships"? It avoids the obvious dominating lists and gives those fun Guri/Palob/3rd ship lists a bit more durability/punch.

Yeah, that just sounds confusing as ****.

I agree that the language could be clearer and more concise, but I was too tired/lazy to do it =).

It also doesn't solve their stated problem - that a single ship getting his focus token means they all get the focus token, which works a little too well.

If that's the complaint, then 2-ships-only is the correct fix, even if it's a bit rough on the new Vaksais...

Brobots!!!!!!!!!!!!

what?

2 hours ago, Ziusdra said:

Before the accusations go flying that I'm a doomsayer or complainer, I want to first establish that I've actually never put Attani Mindlink in any of my lists. Outside of the typical Manaroo lists, I'm not all that sure where Attani Mindlink is useful. And now, with the nerf, I'm looking at it and thinking: "A cost of 2 points, 2 EPT slots, and sharing stress tokens... and you gain only 1 focus token per round?"

Granted, there are other ways to trick the game into giving you more than one focus token, but those ways are either Manaroo or you have to go about building your whole list around moving focus tokens around (a la Overclocked R4 or Leeachos--and when was the last time you thought about putting him in a squadron??). Manaroo's continued use for Attani Mindlink is obvious. But is Attani Mindlink still useful outside of Manaroo/Dengar lists? What would you have to do now to get more than 1 focus token per round out of it? (Help me see that the nerf didn't cement its only usefulness into Manaroo/Dengar)

I called this nerf about 3 days in advance. It's still useful because you can nearly guarantee that a ship will have a focus token each round. It's unblockable action economy. I could see Dengar and Inaldra pairing up to avoid all the nasty blocks he can get into, and the same goes for Fenn.

2-ship Attanni isn't bad in principle.

I just think it's awkward with the current batch of Scum ships. Ideally, a Fenn Rau + Fat Turret list would be the way to go, but Dengar is just too **** skinny. He's only 54 points with ATM/K4/Countermeasures/Crane. Mindlink Fenn Rau would top out at 38 with Advanced Proton Torpedoes. That's an 8 point bid, with a tonne of filler. Maybe it's Asajj Ventress and something else. Starting with the classic 40 point Attanni/Latts build and adding title and Gyros would bring it to 45. That could pair reasonably with a Dengar.

But why not just take PTL and Expertise and other Elite upgrades instead? Standard Paratanni would cost 4 more points between Poe and Asajj if swapped to Push the Limit, leaving 24 for the 3rd ship instead of 28. Attanni has the potential to be great in a situation where you really need to shave points down to the bare minimum.

For example, if it wasn't Scum Only, I'm sure Rey/Poe with Attanni would be great; that'd be a list where you can make strong use of cutting down the points total. I don't think such a list exists for Scum right now, but it easily could in the future.

Comared to two ships with PTL, attani is 4 points cheaper in exchage for only one of the pair each turn getting the benifit, no double reposition, and no native stress cost.

2 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

. Ideally, a Fenn Rau + Fat Turret list would be the way to go, but Dengar is just too **** skinny. He's only 54 points with ATM/K4/Countermeasures/Crane. Mindlink Fenn Rau would top out at 38 with Advanced Proton Torpedoes. That's an 8 point bid, with a tonne of filler..

Cut those Advanced Proton torpedoes and here comes Sunny Bounder with the light Scyk title to brighten your day! Will she do anything? Maybe! Will she be adorable? Absolutely!

I'm feeling Guri and Palob holding hands and pissing their opponents right off with Attanni Mindlink. Or one of them and Bumpmaster Manaroo plus some Scyk/ Kihraxz support.

It's a brand new day, and I'm flying right into the sun.

Hmmm... I think I would consider it if I had a high PS ship and another cheaper ship.

2 minutes ago, E Chu Ta said:

Cut those Advanced Proton torpedoes and here comes Sunny Bounder with the light Scyk title to brighten your day! Will she do anything? Maybe! Will she be adorable? Absolutely!

I'm feeling Guri and Palob holding hands and pissing their opponents right off with Attanni Mindlink. Or one of them and Bumpmaster Manaroo plus some Scyk/ Kihraxz support.

It's a brand new day, and I'm flying right into the sun.

I'd been thinking of using the two prime threats with Attanni, leaving space for a weaker filler (filler ships have not done great lately). Putting Attanni on smaller filler-ish ships and having a self-sufficient 3rd ship might be a stronger way to go. Palob with Dorsal + Attanni is 24 points, Guri with Attanni + Autothrusters + Mk.II is 30 points. That leaves 46 for another ship. Perhaps a Nym?

I think N'Dru Suhlak comes in at 21 points with Attanni, Cruise Missiles, and Guidance Chips. With another cheap Mindlink ship, you could easily fit in a standard Dengar. The risk of Attanni: once your partner is gone, the remaining linked ship is a lot weaker. By making sure that your best ship is self-sufficient, you mitigate that.

I've actually been using attani on 2 of my 3 ships lately. Ironically to answer OP's post the third ship is leachos, but I love deadeye with his pilot ability.

First time ever using attani hard to believe.

If you only have 2 points to spend between two EPTs in a scum list it's hard to do much better.

6 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

46 points is enough for a stripped down but effective Ketsu Onyo OR Asajj Ventress...

Units like Guri will still be really solid attani platforms. I don’t see this going anywhere

38 minutes ago, E Chu Ta said:

...here comes Sunny Bounder with the light Scyk title to brighten your day! Will she do anything? Maybe! Will she be adorable? Absolutely!

Quote of the year. I've never wanted to paint a rainbow on a Scyk before, but now...

Edit: It's probably also worth pointing out that Attanni is zero points on a Vaksai.

2 hours ago, SabineKey said:

They are indeed. And while I'm not sure they'd be a top tier list, I'm gonna throw 'em together for flavor reasons.

Now if Manaroo would not be limited to range 1 ;-)
Anyway, the issue with the new Mindlink is that mindlink never was actually good in two ship lists. Even Dengaroo used PTL and Lone Wolf instead. And that was certainly not a list concerned with the stress mechanic from Mindlink. ;-)

Now with the new restriction we are left basically with anything which can generate the focus token without taking an action, Guri, Palob for example AND is not suited for Push the limited/expertise/intensity or even just predator.

Mindlink is a 2 ept, 2 points upgrade which grants one extra action. Even without the stress drawback it would be hard to justify it over PTL on two ship lists, especially with so many good zero point EPTs these days. On three ships and more it starts to sing.

2 hours ago, SabineKey said:

forum seems to have some issues