18 minutes ago, jamie nasmyth said:

So I have to feel that the game is in a really good place now. However if activation remains an issue my solution would be to hand the player with fewer ships initiative and do away with point bids or retain it when there is a tie in the number of activations. This still gives an advantage to the player with more activations in that they will have scope to activate multiple ships after the other player but the layer with fewer ships will not be first lasted putting a crimp on things like avenger or demo.

I've thought that was a good idea every time I've seen it posted but I've never gotten around to trying it out. I think it's probably the best solution to activations because I don't see it as requiring a change to the way objectives are handled.

>This thread



>Armada is dead
>Flotillas are OP
>Squadrons are OP
>Activations are OP

3 minutes ago, Darth Sanguis said:

>This thread



>Armada is dead
>Flotillas are OP
>Squadrons are OP
>Activations are OP

Yeah, it got away from me faster than I expected it to. On the plus side, at least people are talking about stuff? I'm gonna go hide in the breakfast discussion though.

I think this is a healthy discussion, no one is attacking anyone else and people are calmly discussing their side of things. This is a healthy thing.

Relay doesn’t make sense to me the way it is currently played. I was shocked when I realized I was not using it right when I was requiring the Squadron with Relay to be in range of the activating ship. To me it just expands the range way too far.

8 minutes ago, geek19 said:

Yeah, it got away from me faster than I expected it to. On the plus side, at least people are talking about stuff? I'm gonna go hide in the breakfast discussion though.

The door was left open. What did you expect?

Really though, this is fine. I'd much rather people discuss the things they don't like right now than hold their tongue because they are scared of being shouted down.

I'm new to the game, but I honestly thought that a Relay squadron had to be within range of the activating ship. That just seemed like a natural way for it work (an extender of the initial ship's range). Changing it to this wouldn't drastically reduce their effectiveness (Medium+Range 3 is a pretty good distance) and would prevent edge of board play from flotillas (which seems to me the main complaint). Seems easy to 'fix' though not necessary.

The activation thing is a tricky one and it's tied up into the defense mechanic essentially. A big ship can get whittled down by lots of little attacks which it can't really do anything about, giving quantity a quality of its own.

Engine tech (ET right?) and ramming is surpising, ideally to change this you just make it so that you cannot 'boost' if it means you're overlapping.

I'll jump on the Relay "nerf" bandwagon. When the ability first was announced my assumption was that the Relay squadron would still need to be in squadron activation range of the ship doing the squadron command. If the ship can be out of normal range why couldn't the order just go direct to the squadrons you were ordering? Why wouldn't there just be a "Super Duper Extremely Boosted Comms" upgrade card? It never made sense even before the power of it was demonstrated that the Relay squadron wouldn't need to be in appropriate range of the ordering ship.

Flotillas need their scatter tokens nerfed or their overall defense tokens nerfed in someway. They need to be in a bit more danger/less survivable.

These changes would both give you a chance to do something about the activation disadvantage you might be facing from flotilla spam. The flotillas wouldn't be able to stand as far off remaining both useful and out of danger. You could still choose to pad your activations with flotillas but there would be increased risk to it.

The activation advantage issue could then be addressed on the table without needing rules and without messing with what is a fairly core design aspect of the game. So reduce effective range of Relay, reduce survivability of flotillas, and solve the activation spam.

So what about a separate Flotilla Phase? After ships and before squadrons?

I mean it's certainly not as bad as Admiral Nelson or even some of the squadron rants I've had, but all in all the game is in the strongest place I've ever seen it. I just ran a Q3 kit for NE Ohio and we had all kinds of fleets. 2 Ship rebels to 7 ship rebels 2 ship imperials to 6 ship imperials...

Activation mechanics are the most balanced I've ever seen them in Armada. Flotillas as lifeboats have been eliminated and even flotillas used as padding are dropping in numbers because they're dead weight. Ramming fleets while not entirely fun to play against are very niche and really, I haven't seen a successful one in some time. I really can't even comprehend the desire to change relay, it's not powerful. I've yet to see a fleet spamming relay come anywhere close to top in CC, casuals or tournaments...

Sure it's all just talk, and that's fine, but none of the things being discussed are really in need of change...

Has me like:


I'm reading some of these fixes and questioning whether this is just people talking so there's something to hear... in the absence of actual news from FFG?

Would these issues even come to mind if we had a Profundity article? A more in depth Chimera preview?

Not to be taken as a shout down, just my 2 cents on the whole lot....

Changing mechanics now, while everything has a very sturdy balance, seems like lighting the fire extinguisher on fire... and placing it next to all the actual fire it was there to put out. lol

¯\_(ツ)_/-

I'm fine with the idea of limiting Relay to working only if the Relay squadron itself could have been commanded by the ship in question. Clearly it bothers some people and anything that disincentivizes combat is, if not necessarily inherently bad, something to be minimized if possible. It is very important to make sure you don't go too far, however - Boosted Comms and Relay squadrons and the like are important tools for carrier fleets to keep their shtick going without having to close with the enemy fleet any faster than necessary, where in general they get destroyed ("rush the carriers, ignore the squadrons" being one of the best methods for handling bomber fleets since wave one). It can be counter-played, but then again so can a lot of the things FFG has errataed, so that alone isn't enough to save anything.

Otherwise, I'd institute I believe it was @shmitty's original second suggestion for nerfing flotillas by making them no longer count against getting tabled. If the only ships you have left on the table are flotillas, then you're tabled at the end of the round. I'd still use them the way I do (one or two as support in many fleets) but taking them in large batches to the exclusion of "real" ships (which seems to be what's annoying most people) becomes extremely risky.

All things considered, though, Armada is in a pretty good place. I could certainly nitpick a few things here or there (make some objectives better, tinker with some points costs I guess), but overall we're doing fine. If FFG is going to actually release another round of errata, it's going to be soon so it has time to sink in prior to Regionals. At the very least I would appreciate an FAQ so rules issues can be ironed out before an event rather than by a TO at the spur of the moment.

51 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

The door was left open. What did you expect?

Really though, this is fine. I'd much rather people discuss the things they don't like right now than hold their tongue because they are scared of being shouted down.

I like to think the Armada forums are better about giving people a chance to express their opinions than places like say, the X-Wing forums. Sadly it's looking like the Legion forum may follow that route instead of this one. I think I've seen more opinions shouted down over there since the game was announced than I've seen in here the whole time I've been on.

Just now, Megatronrex said:

I like to think the Armada forums are better about giving people a chance to express their opinions than places like say, the X-Wing forums. Sadly it's looking like the Legion forum may follow that route instead of this one. I think I've seen more opinions shouted down over there since the game was announced than I've seen in here the whole time I've been on.

That's why I don't go over there anymore. All I want to do it cut people internet so they can't spew their nonsense about the scale being different or people not wanting to paint.

Just now, Undeadguy said:

That's why I don't go over there anymore. All I want to do it cut people internet so they can't spew their nonsense about the scale being different or people not wanting to paint.

I was hoping it would improve with the new articles. It may have but not by much.

I think the game is in a good place. I don't think anything is particularly broken. I am a little salty that I put eight dice on a flotilla and it trundled along on its merry way unscathed.

However, the whole point of a navy is to protect the shipping and the landing craft. In my opinion the flotillas aren't in enough danger. You engage an enemy navy because you have transport ships that need to get somewhere or the enemy has transport ships you want to prevent from getting somewhere.

I think the suggestion made while I'm typing of being tabled if all you have left are flotillas works to this idea. It just seems there isn't enough downside to putting flotillas in a list. Those extra activations aren't coming at enough of a cost.

29 minutes ago, Megatronrex said:

I like to think the Armada forums are better about giving people a chance to express their opinions than places like say, the X-Wing forums. Sadly it's looking like the Legion forum may follow that route instead of this one. I think I've seen more opinions shouted down over there since the game was announced than I've seen in here the whole time I've been on.

Legion's forums are still in a weird place where a significant minority of posts are people stating they're not interested in the game.

One would assume that can't go on forever, but I also would've assumed it wouldn't last as long as it has.

2 minutes ago, svelok said:

Legion's forums are still in a weird place where a significant minority of posts are people stating they're not interested in the game.

One would assume that can't go on forever, but I also would've assumed it wouldn't last as long as it has.

It seems so odd to me for so many people to still be complaining about a game they've never played.

Only read the first page, but no one's talking about Strategic...

::rubs hands together::

Good, good.

And I love/hate relay. Love it when I use it, hate it when it's used against me. Wish the Rebs had an Ace with relay 2. It's made me think about the squadron game a bit more.

13 minutes ago, Megatronrex said:

It seems so odd to me for so many people to still be complaining about a game they've never played.

Yea this drives me nuts. All those "play testers" who are using the partial rules and telling everyone how the game is going to be awful. Seriously?

4 minutes ago, Undeadguy said:

Yea this drives me nuts. All those "play testers" who are using the partial rules and telling everyone how the game is going to be awful. Seriously?

I know I'm not capable of judging a game when all I have is proxied components and half of the rules.

1 minute ago, Megatronrex said:

I know I'm not capable of judging a game when all I have is proxied components and half of the rules.

"Lrn2PTest_N00b."

1 hour ago, Undeadguy said:

The door was left open. What did you expect?

Really though, this is fine. I'd much rather people discuss the things they don't like right now than hold their tongue because they are scared of being shouted down.

I expected mostly agreement to my initial post, actually.

I didn't think activation advantage was as divisive of a topic as it is. I'm personally playing a 4 now, but I've run a Leia 7 and felt both were equally fine, not unbalanced in either direction. I don't like a few of @Snipafist's high activation ones, but that's because he knows what he's doing with them and his Raiders hurt my squadrons, not because "game balance," haha.

There's several fleets and fleet types that have come up in this thread that I haven't played against, so there could be some of the issue for why I didn't expect the issues others have/see.

I think I agree with the general sentiment here:

Relay needs a nerf, although it hasn't been an issue where I play.

Activation padding is still KIND of an issue, but I've won a lot of matches with 4 activations vs 6 or 7 activations, so meh.

I think we really need a clarification on Sloane. Can I use the token that has just been spent or no?

Squadrons aces are a bit too omnipresent, but eh. Facing a list of 6-8 aces is just not that much fun.

Just now, Sybreed said:

I think we really need a clarification on Sloane. Can I use the token that has just been spent or no?

Nothing personal, its just this one is a real personal bugbear of mine.

I feel that if you read the Rules, you have an answer.

Its only when you assume the rules, that you have a question.

Just now, Sybreed said:

Squadrons aces are a bit too omnipresent, but eh. Facing a list of 6-8 aces is just not that much fun.

But as it's fun for me and the points costs offset how many I can bring, does it really need a nerf? It's not that Keyan Farlander is good, it's that's Yavaris and Adar Tallon with him is good, and that's really 3 different ships if you're doing it right.

4 minutes ago, Drasnighta said:

"Lrn2PTest_N00b."

You may have ruined waffles for me but that made me literally laugh out loud.