12 minutes ago, Marinealver said:

******, now everyone has to just take a sharpie to their cards. You know I think X-wing should go to a digital list format like a codex or squadron book or something.

Every FAQed card has a version online, usually with the articles. I'm sure FFG has done this on purpose. I print out the FAQ versions and slip them into the card protector with the original card. Easy.

10 minutes ago, Chippy118 said:

But dengar with the punishing one title is 45 points making it the second most expensive pilot after han solo an rear admeral chiraneau so the base ship is undercosted but with the title, it is a fairly costed ship.

I did like a previous sugestion that all jumpmaster 5000 pilot increase in points by 2 while decreasing the title by 2 and keep the torpedoes and salvaged astromech to the title.

Dengar has by far the most powerful ability in the game. Han and RAC get free dice mods, Dengar gets a free attack. He’s also arguably more survivable: 9HP behind 2 agi is really good. Then factor in the crazy dial. He doesn’t also need to get access to droid+crew synergies.

4 minutes ago, ficklegreendice said:

you're not factoring in the bonkers ability and dial

The dial isn't broken good though. You get on dengar's right and he loses his green maneuvers which can hinder him.

Just now, Chippy118 said:

The dial isn't broken good though. You get on dengar's right and he loses his green maneuvers which can hinder him.

the dial is absolutely busted

white segnors is just dumb, and there are no limiting factors as with the only other white "flip" maneuver dial in the game (the defender, which has red 1 + 2 turns and only forward greens; has to pay a point and mod slot to get more)

3 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

Dengar has by far the most powerful ability in the game. Han and RAC get free dice mods, Dengar gets a free attack. He’s also arguably more survivable: 9HP behind 2 agi is really good. Then factor in the crazy dial. He doesn’t also need to get access to droid+crew synergies.

Faq the title to uniqure droids only. Less crazy droid+crew synergies.

Dial isnt broken good? Are you joking right now?

JM5K dial has been considered the absolute BEST DIAL in the entire freakin game. For a lopsided ship it has barely any reds and since it has a turret AND a white sloop it virtually never uses those reds if at all.

9 minutes ago, Koing907 said:

Every FAQed card has a version online, usually with the articles. I'm sure FFG has done this on purpose. I print out the FAQ versions and slip them into the card protector with the original card. Easy.

Thing is proxy cards are not legal in tournaments unless the original has been damage (by a Nerfratta). Still that is the only reasonable action to take in this matter.

I know its a different game, but the Imperial Light Carrier in Armada actually shipped with upgrades that it couldn't use. It was mostly so each faction had access to the upgrade, but the precedent is there.

3 minutes ago, Chippy118 said:

Faq the title to uniqure droids only. Less crazy droid+crew synergies.

What you’re proposing is leaving Dengar almost completely unchanged. Plenty of winning Dengar builds get by just fine without missiles. Getting rid of the droid really is a step in the right direction. Besides, making it unique droids only still makes Overclocked unplayable in the expansion it came with.

54 minutes ago, Kieransi said:

What you’re proposing is leaving Dengar almost completely unchanged. Plenty of winning Dengar builds get by just fine without missiles. Getting rid of the droid really is a step in the right direction. Besides, making it unique droids only still makes Overclocked unplayable in the expansion it came with.

Most of the problems with the droid on the jumpmaster were the non-unique ones such as unhinged astromech and the k-4 crew combo and overclocked r4 astromechs on the triple jumpmasters. Having access to R5-P8 is not game breaking. If dengar builds can get by without torpedoes, then what is the issue with linking them to the title?

1 minute ago, Chippy118 said:

what is the issue with linking them to the title?

1. Dengar’s still going to be plenty strong as is. They didn’t want to take any chances. A large ship with a great dial, attack, and so many slots limits game design freedom.

2. People hate having so many erratas to keep track of. Not errataing the title makes one less errata to keep track of.

1 minute ago, Kieransi said:

1. Dengar’s still going to be plenty strong as is. They didn’t want to take any chances. A large ship with a great dial, attack, and so many slots limits game design freedom.

2. People hate having so many erratas to keep track of. Not errataing the title makes one less errata to keep track of.

1. But it restricts list building. A single torpedo on dengar is not game breaking, it allows people to take a different build for the punishing one while still eliminating the triple jumpmaster list.

2. There is already a lot of erratas to keep track of and i've never had people in my local store complaining about the amount or that they are difficult to remember them. Once they have been out for a couple of weeks, people who play frequently and people who follow the meta just remember them. It becomes second nature to remember them. If FFG really cared about helping keep track of all these erratas, they would give out errated versions of these cards as entry prizes for tournaments.

5 hours ago, Celestial Lizards said:

No torps, no Astromech. That hurts.

It's the fairest way to nerf them into oblivion. While a points increase (which I was hoping for) restricts all the JM5K's options, whereas removing their action economy and damage spikes still leaves them a very good blocking role.

I'm just annoyed that the FAQ wasn't release 2 weeks earlier. Australian Nationals is this weekend, and I'm expecting a lot of JM5Ks as those kinds of players get in their last fix.

1 hour ago, Chippy118 said:

1. But it restricts list building. A single torpedo on dengar is not game breaking, it allows people to take a different build for the punishing one while still eliminating the triple jumpmaster list.

Chippy, nobody cares if you have a few less listbuilding options with the most broken ship in the game. I’m going to stop arguing this with you because it’s evident that you’re not going to cave on this, but it’s way better for Dengar to have a few less options than for everyone else to have way less options because Dengar keeps destroying them.

My thoughts are, the stupid thing can **** right off, and if I ever have to play against another one again it will be too soon.

Which I will, of course, because Dengar still has the best pilot ability and dial in the game, and by an order of magnitude on both counts. But now he's slower and getting on the slightly-less-than-perfect side of his dial actually does something, so he should be manageable.

No price reduction on the Jumpmaster 5000 expansion.

At this point I will take random card packs for X-wing. Make it so, my apologies for opposing those who brought up the idea.

2 hours ago, Astech said:

It's the fairest way to nerf them into oblivion. While a points increase (which I was hoping for) restricts all the JM5K's options, whereas removing their action economy and damage spikes still leaves them a very good blocking role.

I'm just annoyed that the FAQ wasn't release 2 weeks earlier. Australian Nationals is this weekend, and I'm expecting a lot of JM5Ks as those kinds of players get in their last fix.

Agreed. And to be honest, for JM5Ks, there'll probably be no "oblivion". They still got plenty of strength left.

Let's hope that what it took to make less people groan when they see them on the table.

Although I am happy with the nerf, and will implement the changes in my casual games, I would like to see the pack it comes in be fully inclusive with its cards and for the Punishing One to be thematic, but not that OPed...

So I would propose that the title gives back the Droid slot and only ONE torp slot, at the cost of the crew slot. Along with the +1 Red, of course.

All the cards in the pack become functional, and crew/mech combos are removed.

I'm not sure if this will actually kill them forever, or just shift their builds. They're still stupidly undercosted.

FFG really doesn't want to touch point costs, which is silly, because removal of slots is even more confusing.

Still no nerf to the TLT, but I'll take what I can get.

9 hours ago, MalusCalibur said:

If they do that, it will undo a lot of the good that the FAQ has done. I think they do need to re-issue the pack with the changes made, but they certainly should NOT undo those changes!

Adding the droid slot to the title is thematic.

And one torp slot is almost needed to keep all the cards in the pack relevant.

I’m tired of hearing how thematic the Astro slot is. There are droid crew cards, he has a crew slot. What isn’t thematic is a freighter that is easier on the pilot and more maneuverable than military superiority fighters.

The thing is still obnoxious since Dengar has no limit on his return shots like QuickDraw, but now at least he isn’t splatting them out after GC double modified torpedo shots.

The thing is a hyperspace mapper, not a dogfighter.

11 hours ago, Celestial Lizards said:

No torps, no Astromech. That hurts.

Hasn't been nerfed, I dunno where you got your info from. /in denial

My 2c... (though, not too dissimilar to what's come before)

Punishing One errata to add Salvaged Astro slot (perhaps even with the non-unique caveat) and lose the Crew slot.

New JM5K title (perhaps even unique as well) that adds 1 Torpedo slot and lose the Illicit slot (because Scav Crane).

FFG scheme where you mail in your old Punishing One card and get 1 of each of the above sent back. (this is likely just a pipe dream)

These two titles would kept the essence of the nerf but open up a lot of variety in builds (plus remove redundancy in the box set).

Perhaps like to see Manaroo a little de-nerfed as well (also unlikely)... possibly out to Range 2 or even 3.

I like the idea of giving Manaroo a little more reach. But why another title? And how to distribute it?

The ship still has a god-tier dial, a pwt and plenty of options with EPT, crew slot, illicit, modification and title (even if it stays as it is, so no torps or mech). Not to forget the barrel roll.

I really don't feel like I have too little options with flyable jm5ks spanning from just under 30pts to over 50pts for Dengar.

Calling it: triple scouts will still be a thing, potentialy like this:

Contracted Scout (25)
Expertise (4)
K4 Security Droid (3)
Rigged Cargo Chute (1)

Contracted Scout (25)
Expertise (4)
K4 Security Droid (3)
Rigged Cargo Chute (1)

Contracted Scout (25)
Expertise (4)
K4 Security Droid (3)
Anti-Pursuit Lasers (2)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

Though I don't have enough experience flying scouts to make that exact call.