My random pondering du jour... why is it Dash makes it to the top and Han, Rey et. al. seem to suffer by comparison? Is the barrel roll that much of a thing?

Because Dash has a bigger uh... gun.

Dash hits harder and lives longer. Also his pilot ability is amazing.

Large base barrel roll is bonkers. Extra red dice. Extra green dice. Lower cost.

Make no mistake that the barrel roll is a huge part of it, though.

Also the fact that unlike Rey, Dash can kite 100% of the time. He never needs to consider his arc.

Don't undersell Rey/Han though they are very strong ships in their own right.

They just take slightly more attention to fly.

Your default tactical decision is a little more complicated than "oh snap.....they are getting close nope nope nope Im out."

6 minutes ago, defkhan1 said:

Dash hits harder and lives longer. Also his pilot ability is amazing.

Harder than, say, Rey/Finn?

Also, extra crew, no doughnut hole. They should be pretty even, at least in my head!

9 minutes ago, Fuzzywookie said:

Because Dash has a bigger uh... gun.

And shoulder pads.

4 minutes ago, Estarriol said:

Harder than, say, Rey/Finn?

Also, extra crew, no doughnut hole. They should be pretty even, at least in my head!

Rey/Finn hits like a truck but you have to point at stuff which means you cant choose the ideal defensive move to dodge an arc or range band at the same time that you get into an ideal spot to attack. Oh and good Rey is 62 pts.

2 minutes ago, Estarriol said:

Harder than, say, Rey/Finn?

Also, extra crew, no doughnut hole. They should be pretty even, at least in my head!

No doughnut true, but Rey is arc locked. Dash covers a wider field of fire.

Honestly there both good, I think the outrider is preferred because it's a cheaper build in most cases.

also Rey crew is really good so people might prefer her riding shotgun than flying.

5 minutes ago, Estarriol said:

Harder than, say, Rey/Finn?

Also, extra crew, no doughnut hole. They should be pretty even, at least in my head!

Statistically, yes. Finn gives you the 4th dice but you've only got one roll of it not a reroll, while HLC Dash rolls the 4th dice and can reroll it.

Ultimately Rey is very predictable, Dash is the opposite when flown well.

'Back in the day'... Dash was actually the better smuggler, and had real ties to the Rebel Alliance. In fact, I once upon a time, that ship that is flying out of the Mos Eisley Spaceport as Luke and Obi Wan show up is supposed to be Dash flying out after being at the same bar as Han and Chewie.

Meaning that based on old fluff, Dash would be better equipped and be the 'wolf in sheep's clothing' giving him more bite, even though it is a freighter.

10 minutes ago, FlyingAnchors said:

No doughnut true, but Rey is arc locked. Dash covers a wider field of fire.

Honestly there both good, I think the outrider is preferred because it's a cheaper build in most cases.

also Rey crew is really good so people might prefer her riding shotgun than flying.

Rey is NOT arc locked. That’s what people trap themselves into believing.

Range 1 Rey out of arc is 4 dice. She can kill ships without facing them all the time thanyouverymuch!

On the other hand, Dash never won a Worlds; Han won a Worlds.

2 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

Rey is NOT arc locked. That’s what people trap themselves into believing.

Range 1 Rey out of arc is 4 dice. She can kill ships without facing them all the time thanyouverymuch!

In my experience Rey out of arc and in range one is seldom few and far between. Sure 3 dice are potent but without any modifiers you won't kill anything fast.

PTL to boost/barrel roll while ignoring obstacles for movement is bananas good for setting yourself up for the best possible shot. As an expensive HLC carrier, he wants to be at range 3 all the time to get a defensive dice bonus without actually giving one in return, and nobody can managed to keep that range 3 band better than a good Dash player.

If you out PS him, you're going to have an easier time in repositioning for a shot. However, if he's higher than you - or indeed, what's left of your ships, because a good Dash player will rip down the biggest PS threat first - then you're going to have an **** of a time trying to keep him in your arc while he's hucking out 4 red dice all day long.

On the other hand, the Falcon just has to accept it has 1agility and needs to be in the thick of the fighting to get the most damage output. It's fine to say the Falcon can get 4 red dice, but it's also going to be accepting much more damage while doing so - being at range 1-2 - and paying more for the ability to push out that damage.

The sheer cost is an important aspect too, as it opens up potential for a wingman to harass a flank, play defensively for late game spiking, or even to run multiple wingmen. As it stands, Falcon builds are usually expensive enough that you're only going to get a single ship on your wing as backup. Dash offers a few more points saved, crucially opening up enough to get some real powerhouse options in there like Miranda, or multiple smaller units like a pair of A-wings.

In the end, Dash is just more efficient and versatile.

Barrel roll, bigger gun, better targetting ability, marginally better dial (that 3 turn is very useful) and that pilot ability. Plus, being cheaper helps. There's not really a *budget* Rey or Han build.

Dash's ability is pretty ******* absurd (especially on a large base) and represents probably the single most ridiculous jump in proficiency from all other pilots of the same ship type

having a big ol' HLC with constant full mods and some lucky green dice help a lot too. He can outpunch TLTs (Esp miranda) between 4 reds and 2 greens (sometimes obstructed), whereas the falcon really can't (range 1 obvious exception is obvious) apart from Rey Finn in arc

1 on 1 Dash should be able to take basically any TLT toter of roughly equal points flown by a player of equal skill. Nym is the only one who has a chance, and good asteroid play should take care of that.

1 hour ago, FlyingAnchors said:

In my experience Rey out of arc and in range one is seldom few and far between. Sure 3 dice are potent but without any modifiers you won't kill anything fast.

4 dice. And you don’t do this as a default, but it sure can come in handy, especially if your opponent thinks you’re going to fly her a certain way.

In my neighborhood meta, Rey/Finn or No Stress No Worry Han are very good options, I've only seen Dash once.

Because Dash is the best Star Wars character in the best Star Wars ship!

Just now, Salsashark said:

Because Dash is the best Star Wars character in the best Star Wars ship!

Wrong, and wronger.

2 minutes ago, BlodVargarna said:

Wrong, and wronger.

Denial, and denial.

Four turreted dice at range 3 that denies range bonuses is just brutal.

Further proof that the “no range bonuses when defending against secondaries” rule should be changed to no range bonuses when defending against ordnance...

2 hours ago, Estarriol said:

My random pondering du jour... why is it Dash makes it to the top and Han, Rey et. al. seem to suffer by comparison? Is the barrel roll that much of a thing?

Most have already covered his advantages. I think most importantly, its the HLC, and not just the barrel roll but the combo of the barrel roll and his ability. The 3 turn makes a big difference too.

2 hours ago, Estarriol said:

Harder than, say, Rey/Finn?

Also, extra crew, no doughnut hole. They should be pretty even, at least in my head!

The extra crew is nice, but ultimately doesn't help damage output, it can help other things, but not so much damage. Rey can hit hard, but has to Fenn-joust a lot of the time to get it, without having Fenn's defensive capability, whereas Dash can avoid it altogether.

I personally love flying OT Han with expert handling, recon spec, and Jan Ors which is I guess, in a way, a pseudo Dash. You can see the obvious caveat though, I've spent 7pts to effectively get what Dash has natively (if we compare an evade to an extra green die), and filled most of my upgrade slots.

The only way to get Han up to Dash's damage output is to run something like; opportunist, hot-shot co-pilot, and gunner, which isn't as efficient damage wise and costs more than the outrider title and HLC.

I fly the Falcon more often because I personally like the ship more. But objectively, and from a competitive perspective, the Outrider is just more versatile and efficient at what it does well.