I'd prefer if they bring Mantis or shadowlands with a stronghold.. It would keep the card pool small and balanced for everyone.

2 hours ago, qwertyuiop said:

If they're anything like Thrones (which they probably will be) the expansion will be 52 cards (times 3) with about half the cards going toward the featured clan, 2 each going to the other clans, and the rest neutrals/provinces. L5R currently has fewer factions than Thrones, so there may be a 3rd card for each of the factions... or if neutral non-clans like naga or shadowlands are a thing, the first set could lean its neutrals in those directions.

Single faction focus for deluxe boxes is a great way to go for the model and is good for new players who don't want to do the 3x core immediately. It also doesn't shift the competitive meta all that much. Phoenix will have more options, but you won't see them dominating the tournament scene unless the hard core faction loyal players all play the new cards and forget about other, stronger builds. The downside is if your preferred clan is at the back of the release schedule, you may be waiting a couple of years for your box.

That sounds terrible. People would leave the game before half the clans got their boxes due to imbalance.

19 minutes ago, caseycheesecake said:

That sounds terrible. People would leave the game before half the clans got their boxes due to imbalance.

What imbalance are you talking about? Card pool? I guess players clinging to muh clan loyalty and CCG era collecting practices might have a problem.

I'm sure we have zero Mantis and Spider loyalists currently playing the LCG

A clan having more cards doesn't mean their builds suddenly dominate the meta.

4 minutes ago, qwertyuiop said:

What imbalance are you talking about? Card pool? I guess players clinging to muh clan loyalty and CCG era collecting practices might have a problem.

I'm sure we have zero Mantis and Spider loyalists currently playing the LCG

A clan having more cards doesn't mean their builds suddenly dominate the meta.

I'm not clan loyal (I play Unicorn first and Phoenix second so far - haven't had time to try all of them yet), but I don't enjoy switching to whatever the absolute most powerful deck is at the time. I saw that in Hearthstone with the Rogue 5/5 Quest or Warrior Taunt Quest. That's super lame and ruins the local meta.

Having 1-2 clans getting 50+ cards than the rest for a whole year is stupid. The imbalance would be the potential deck variations. It's boring to only have 1-2 types of possible decks while others can have 3-4.

It did with Lannister, they got released second, after stark. The extra options combined with being the strongest core faction gave them several strong builds from the start.

1 hour ago, caseycheesecake said:

Having 1-2 clans getting 50+ cards than the rest for a whole year is stupid. The imbalance would be the potential deck variations. It's boring to only have 1-2 types of possible decks while others can have 3-4.

Where do you get 50 additional cards from 25? How can you measure possible decks using something that either doesn't exist or that you haven't seen implemented in other games in the LCG model

1 hour ago, Mig el Pig said:

It did with Lannister, they got released second, after stark. The extra options combined with being the strongest core faction gave them several strong builds from the start.

What extra Lannister specific options made the faction stronger than it was before the box released? Hand destruction got some love and Clansman became an(underwhelming) archetype that doesn't see play. The best cards from that box, outside of Cersei, are either neutral or for other factions(even at the time of its release). I can see why you'd think they got a bigger boost if you're starting with the opinion of them being the best faction out of core.

4 minutes ago, qwertyuiop said:

Where do you get 50 additional cards from 25? How can you measure possible decks using something that either doesn't exist or that you haven't seen implemented in other games in the LCG model

What extra Lannister specific options made the faction stronger than it was before the box released? Hand destruction got some love and Clansman became an(underwhelming) archetype that doesn't see play. The best cards from that box, outside of Cersei, are either neutral or for other factions(even at the time of its release). I can see why you'd think they got a bigger boost if you're starting with the opinion of them being the best faction out of core.

Instead of trying to pick apart the details, focus on arguing the principles .

"Having [more] cards than the rest for a whole year is stupid. The imbalance would be the potential deck variations. It's boring to only have 1-2 types of possible decks while others can have 3-4."
"extra options = more strong builds from the start"

That's what drives players away. Hearthstone does it right with their expansions. Each expansion gives each of the nine decks a few more cards and introduces new themes/traits/possibilities.

8 minutes ago, caseycheesecake said:

Instead of trying to pick apart the details, focus on arguing the principles .

"Having [more] cards than the rest for a whole year is stupid. The imbalance would be the potential deck variations. It's boring to only have 1-2 types of possible decks while others can have 3-4."
"extra options = more strong builds from the start"

That's what drives players away. Hearthstone does it right with their expansions. Each expansion gives each of the nine decks a few more cards and introduces new themes/traits/possibilities.

The problem is that the big picture is made up of details... I played Thrones also, and I know there were complaints about the Lannisters being too powerful and then getting an early deluxe box. However, whenever we tried drilling into it, the problem was that the Lannisters were powerful before their deluxe box, and stayed that way afterwards. The deluxe box itself had little to do with it.

I actually thought FFG did a very good job with the deluxes in Thrones, and hope they do as well with L5R. I found they didn't make the recipient clan too powerful, they were very well balanced. Instead, they provided a better jumping on point for new players, who could get the deluxe pack of their choice rather than 3 cores to start playing. Now, that was an impact. After a deluxe box was released, we tended to see more players of that faction - wouldn't surprise me in the least if the same thing happened here. But, at least while I was playing, the deluxe boxes themselves didn't seem to be a problem.

Again, Lannisters are the usual counter-example, but the problem there was pre-existing, and the deluxe box didn't fix it either.

As to your Hearthstone example, I expect that goes better to the monthly expansion packs (or weekly for a few more weeks.) In those, they do seem to try to give each clan about the same. At the moment they're expanding on themes rather than introducing new ones, but that's expected for such a new game.

Here's the simplest question: Would you want a clan you like getting a delux box earlier or later? If the answer is earlier, then...you're normal.

Unfortunately, in that scenario, 1-2 clans feel happy and 5-6 feel bad. Oh and they potentially feel bad for 1-2 years? That's not a good idea when the game is so new.

2 hours ago, qwertyuiop said:

What imbalance are you talking about? Card pool? I guess players clinging to muh clan loyalty and CCG era collecting practices might have a problem.

Imagine, if you will, if FFG had decided to release seven clan-specific packs in seven months, rather than the Six Packs in Six Weeks ™ we have currently. Would it not then be the case that clans that have gotten their packs would be better, have more options, more fleshed out deck themes than clans that have not? I believe it would. And we're extending that same reasoning to two-clan deluxe boxes spread out over 2-3 years.

41 minutes ago, twinstarbmc said:

Imagine, if you will, if FFG had decided to release seven clan-specific packs in seven months, rather than the Six Packs in Six Weeks ™ we have currently. Would it not then be the case that clans that have gotten their packs would be better, have more options, more fleshed out deck themes than clans that have not? I believe it would. And we're extending that same reasoning to two-clan deluxe boxes spread out over 2-3 years.

Yeah.. except the most relevant past releases from a similar game have already rendered your reasoning void.

Honestly getting the first box is a mixed blessing. Cool when it comes out but filled with cards that are all over the place power wise.

39 minutes ago, qwertyuiop said:

Yeah.. except the most relevant past releases from a similar game have already rendered your reasoning void.

What releases for what game are you referring to?

4 hours ago, qwertyuiop said:

What imbalance are you talking about? Card pool? I guess players clinging to muh clan loyalty and CCG era collecting practices might have a problem.

When tournament prizes are tied directly to the clan you played? It's not like you get piles of product like you did in the CCG days, you get a bit of personal glory, which is often tied directly to the clan you picked. " Muh clan loyalty," as you so scornfully choose to describe it, is baked into the things you get for winning. Without "mu clan loyalty," why would I be terribly excited to get some fullbleeds of one of my characters? Why would I care that the Flying Purple Hippo Clan will be the ones to finally assemble the Infinity Gauntlet in the story?

4 hours ago, qwertyuiop said:

I'm sure we have zero Mantis and Spider loyalists currently playing the LCG

You would be wrong. They're currently biding their time playing second choices and champing at the bit for a chance to play "their" clans.

4 hours ago, qwertyuiop said:

A clan having more cards doesn't mean their builds suddenly dominate the meta.

But it means they can distort the meta by having more options than anyone else.

In Netrunner NBN got their Deluxe last but it didn’t prevent them from being the most competitive faction. They won far more games than other Corps with the smallest pool. Because quantity does not equal quality. And they had quality from the go.

Plus with the splash rules, more cards of any faction equals more possible cards to splash for all factions.

41 minutes ago, Shiba Gunichi said:

When tournament prizes are tied directly to the clan you played? It's not like you get piles of product like you did in the CCG days, you get a bit of personal glory, which is often tied directly to the clan you picked. " Muh clan loyalty," as you so scornfully choose to describe it, is baked into the things you get for winning. Without "mu clan loyalty," why would I be terribly excited to get some fullbleeds of one of my characters? Why would I care that the Flying Purple Hippo Clan will be the ones to finally assemble the Infinity Gauntlet in the story?

You would be wrong. They're currently biding their time playing second choices and champing at the bit for a chance to play "their" clans.

But it means they can distort the meta by having more options than anyone else.

So.. are you concerned you may have to compete against more players within your own chosen clan? If you mean something else, please let me know.

Sarcasm......?

There are two ways in which a meta can be distorted by a clan having a temporarily larger card pool than the rest; the clan either receives strong cards which put it significantly farther ahead than other clans for an extended period of time, or more players decide to play the clan for a period of time. In the case of stronger cards... I can't think of a relevant scenario where this has happened in a LCG. Some factions may have caught up a bit, but that's it. Players shifting factions, even temporarily, to enjoy the new influx of cards is fine. Metas already shift towards certain factions in different areas. So Phoenix Clan sees a 20% increase of play at Regionals one season. So what? If prizes are available based on best in clan, do your best to come out on top. Not trying to be mean, but the meta has been changing for a couple of decades.

21 minutes ago, DrDevidents said:

In Netrunner NBN got their Deluxe last but it didn’t prevent them from being the most competitive faction. They won far more games than other Corps with the smallest pool. Because quantity does not equal quality. And they had quality from the go.

Plus with the splash rules, more cards of any faction equals more possible cards to splash for all factions.

I've been using Thrones as the most relevant comparison, but this is super true for Netrunner.

5 minutes ago, qwertyuiop said:

So.. are you concerned you may have to compete against more players within your own chosen clan? If you mean something else, please let me know.

I most certainly do mean something else, as should have been abundantly clear- the "prize" for winning is almost invariably a story choice affiliated with the clan you played. Therefore, relative strength of a clan is germane to the way those get doled out. I don't WANT the Tangerine Dream Clan to assemble the Infinity Gauntlet, I want the Flying Purple Hippo Clan to do it!