2 minutes ago, Evilgm said:

Because you have a track of each gain and loss, rather than just the current totals. You can immediately see the point where one player has a gain or loss and the other doesn't. Even if only one player is writing it down, you can go back and check they have each gain and loss correctly noted down if the players have a different total.

This isn't supposition and theory, this is years of playing Dishonour decks and knowing the importance of tracking a mechanic that most players don't really pay attention to in most games. It's not like life totals in Magic or even Skill totals in battles- those are important in every matchup so players are used to tracking them. Honour only matters when one player is trying to win with it, or specific cards refer to it, so most players add or remove their tokens after the bid phase or playing Banzai! and don't give it a second thought.

To be fair, honor totals in the LCG are far more important to all players than they were in the CCG. You can't ignore them like you did in the old game, and then have it never change (or "Oh hey I gained 6 honor for winning this opposed battle didn't I") for a majority of decks. So its more like magic life totals than anything in the LCG.

Competitive X-Wing hasn't suffered from a lack of note-taking, and there's a **** of a lot more to keep track of in that game.

17 minutes ago, Evilgm said:

Because you have a track of each gain and loss, rather than just the current totals. You can immediately see the point where one player has a gain or loss and the other doesn't. Even if only one player is writing it down, you can go back and check they have each gain and loss correctly noted down if the players have a different total.

Which actually doesn't make it easier. So you know it occurred three honor changes ago, but how do you decide which is correct? Who is right? That's my point, it doesn't really solve anything.

And if only one player is marking it down, then cheating's even easier than whatever videos you saw of token cheating.

17 minutes ago, Evilgm said:

This isn't supposition and theory, this is years of playing Dishonour decks and knowing the importance of tracking a mechanic that most players don't really pay attention to in most games. It's not like life totals in Magic or even Skill totals in battles- those are important in every matchup so players are used to tracking them. Honour only matters when one player is trying to win with it, or specific cards refer to it, so most players add or remove their tokens after the bid phase or playing Banzai! and don't give it a second thought.

To point out, that if players aren't paying that close to Honor, then they're bad players. This isn't the old game, stop treating it like it is. Only a bad player, or one treating this like Old5R, would ignore their honor totals, since they are very important in every match. It's an economy just like fate, and it is just as important to every match. It's flat out wrong to say they aren't, and your YEARS of playing dishonor means nothing here, because this is a different game. I'm sorry to tell you, but even non-honor caring decks should care, and I've played enough games with those kinds of decks to know that.

5 minutes ago, RandomJC said:

This isn't the old game, stop treating it like it is.

Just because it's a new game doesn't invalidate things learned in the past- just because something was true in CCG doesn't make it automatically wrong in the LCG. That's a lesson you, and a lot of other people, could do with learning instead of just dragging out the tired "It's a new game" response.

3 hours ago, Evilgm said:

Just because it's a new game doesn't invalidate things learned in the past- just because something was true in CCG doesn't make it automatically wrong in the LCG. That's a lesson you, and a lot of other people, could do with learning instead of just dragging out the tired "It's a new game" response.

That's not what he said at all. He's not claiming that because they're different games everything is different. Instead, he's pointing out that because they're different games, we can't assume things are the same. If you think that there's a similarity between old honor and new honor, then tell us why you think so and prove your point! But to say, "this is years of experience talking" about a game that came out this year, without showing how the experience translates, is simply a flawed argument.

I agree that your playing dishonor and tracking honor totals more closely will help you in this game. However, assuming other competent players won't be paying close attention to it because they didn't in the old game (Which was how your argument reads), is unfair to those players. I played Crab Zerkers competitively all through Emperor. I only paid attention to my honor total when playing against dishonor, to the point where I am absolutely positive I forgot to gain honor from winning an opposed battle during a Kotei a few times, and it didn't matter. Maybe a few times I would lobby for the favor, but usually I was in enough of a hole (And didn't have bodies), that it wasn't worth bothering with. I am playing Crab now in the LCG. I pay attention to both people's honor, since it is super relevant to this game.

3 hours ago, Evilgm said:

Just because it's a new game doesn't invalidate things learned in the past- just because something was true in CCG doesn't make it automatically wrong in the LCG. That's a lesson you, and a lot of other people, could do with learning instead of just dragging out the tired "It's a new game" response.

It also doesn't automatically make it right either. That's a lesson for you.

I mean, the way you quote me it's like I didn't actually have context to that statement, with thought and reason behind why I said it instead of "It's a new game". Honor works differently in this game, you can't argue that. From my experience from old and new is that before I didn't really care about honor, and now I do. My decks haven't changed types. Or do my years of experience matter less than yours?

And I'm not even trying to say noting it on paper is worse than tokens, just that's it's got different problems and doesn't really solve the problems of tokens in any meaningful way. The only thing that solves the problem is by paying attention, which doesn't need pen/paper or tokens, just actually paying attention.

So I'll leave with this; Instead of perpetuating bad playing habits, you should encourage players to pay attention to honor. This will do more to prevent cheating and accidents than changing the method of tracking ever will.

Also, I don't think we will win the argument with FFG anytime soon about no pen and paper. It will need to be a pretty big policy shift within FFG's event organizers to allow this.

6 hours ago, GmanSix said:

Yeah...stir that pot! (I agree, btw)

it's a festering pot!

Keeping track of honor has never been an issue for me. The only times I even really care are when I'm close to a dishonor victory/loss, or maybe if someone was running towards an honor victory, but that second scenario hasn't come up for me yet.

Much more complicated has been keeping track of which actions have already been used in the mid-game, when board states can get a little cluttered and complicated--especially when you consider that some event cards have 'max per turn' limitations that hit the discard pile afterwards. Without any intention of cheating, I've been caught trying to get off more than one Way of the Crab in a round, or to try and play Banzai twice in the same conflict.

Also spend a lot of time recalculating skills, especially in big/important conflicts. Order of operations makes recounting complicated sometimes, then there are effects like Crab stronghold and that annoying Scorpion guy that increases/decreases stats, attachments, events. It can be a lot.

Don't think a notebook would help with either, just need to get more familiar with the game.

37 minutes ago, j_gunder said:

Much more complicated has been keeping track of which actions have already been used in the mid-game, when board states can get a little cluttered and complicated--especially when you consider that some event cards have 'max per turn' limitations that hit the discard pile afterwards.

One thing I really liked about Ashes was that you placed tokens on the cards after they'd performed an action or used an ability. I tend not to accidentally try to activate an ability twice in L5R (and when I have, my opponent has swiftly corrected me), but I do wonder about all the times that I've not activated an ability that I ought to during a turn. If we stuck tokens on things, that would absolutely help my memory with it, but it seems like such an obvious addition to the game, I wonder whether it wasn't included because we're supposed to struggle to remember, or because they wanted us to actually be able to see the cards under the sea of tokens we're throwing over the table in buckets.

If Fate was consumed by actions or conflicts (rather than at the end of a turn) we could have had a cool "Flip the fate over to it's 'dead' side when you do the thing, discard all 'dead' fate at the end of the turn, if there's no fate on a character, remove", and had some stuff about flipping fate back from dead to alive - but of course that's a total and fundamental re-working and rebalancing of the game at this point, and not only is the stable door closed after the horses have bolted, but those horses have become embroiled in a completely different conflict in a different province due to their cavalry rule.

Are we free to use any token we want or just the ones that came from the box? I have some green (naga), light blue (crane and dark blue (crab) glass tokens that came from a bunch of o5r starters that I want to use. I think they came from Jade edition starters.

3 hours ago, muzouka said:

Are we free to use any token we want or just the ones that came from the box? I have some green (naga), light blue (crane and dark blue (crab) glass tokens that came from a bunch of o5r starters that I want to use. I think they came from Jade edition starters.

It is in the Tournament Rules:

Quote

Tokens
Tokens are representations of information about the game or game state. The presence of tokens is marked by one or more indicators. Indicators may also be used to represent multiple tokens, or other open or derived information.

Typically, players use the cardboard tokens included in official product as indicators. However, players may choose to use other items as indicators, so long as they do not obscure significant component information, are resistant to accidental modification, and their purpose of use is clear to both players. The marshal is responsible for determining the legality of an indicator and its reasonable use during a match if objected to by its owner’s opponent.

12 hours ago, muzouka said:

Are we free to use any token we want or just the ones that came from the box? I have some green (naga), light blue (crane and dark blue (crab) glass tokens that came from a bunch of o5r starters that I want to use. I think they came from Jade edition starters.

What Darkhorse is saying is "Yes, probably, assuming they aren't terrible". You just need to make it very clear to your opponent as to what they mean if they aren't just fancy versions of the fate/honor tokens.