21 hours ago, Tom Cruise said:

Why was a street thief getting around in a flight suit?

Would make sense once his Rebel career starts but his outfit hasn't changed.

Ezra is a pilot who steals speeders.

With all the fantastic materials in star wars you are worried about clothing providing armor? We have suits today that stop bullets.

6 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

Ezra is a pilot who steals speeders.

4 minutes ago, Daeglan said:

With all the fantastic materials in star wars you are worried about clothing providing armor? We have suits today that stop bullets.

Yeah. They're just trying to find some way to trip me up.?

10 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Yeah. They're just trying to find some way to trip me up.?

Applying information provided directly in the tv shows and movies is not "trying to trip you up."

But I guess all street clothes (especially those worn by underage, orphaned thieves) are armored flight suits that fully seal and protect against the vacuum of space. A shady, slave-owning junk dealer's statement conveys absolute truth regarding an entire species, but a representative of another species who has reason to know about a controversial figure of galactic note who claims to be a member of that species can't speak for truth regarding the species.

More that he doesn't know that individual by anything more than reputation. That is not enough for him to claim to be an authority on Jango Fett.

Does Almec know where Jango was born? Not likely. Does he know who raised Jango? Probably not. All Almec knows for sure about Jango Fett is that Fett is a bounty hunter by profession, and he wears Mandalorian armor. That is not enough to claim to be an authority on that person.

26 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

a controversial figure of galactic note who claims to be a member of that species

When, in the relevant material - the movies and Clone Wars - does Jango claim to be Mandalorian?

6 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Does Almec know where Jango was born? Not likely. Does he know who raised Jango? Probably not. All Almec knows for sure about Jango Fett is that Fett is a bounty hunter by profession, and he wears Mandalorian armor. That is not enough to claim to be an authority on that person.

For once tramp you are right.

A species living around jedi would know if it was resistant or immune... I'll point out one possibility that they might not be immune but resistant enough to appear immune.

However its much easier to know a general fact about your own species, then for an individual to know the exact details of another individual's history.

To say human's have live offspring, have consciousness, are warmblooded or social is easy as a human. They would be an authority on this they experience these facts personally.

For an individual to the specific history of another is a very different thing. Maybe they do, or maybe its an assumption. However they can't personally experience the facts of another individual unless they are close to that individual, and even so would only personally know parts of that individuals history, and not all.

1 minute ago, TheShard said:

For once tramp you are right.

A species living around jedi would know if it was resistant or immune... I'll point out one possibility that they might not be immune but resistant enough to appear immune.

However its much easier to know a general fact about your own species, then for an individual to know the exact details of another individual's history.

To say human's have live offspring, have consciousness, are warmblooded or social is easy as a human. They would be an authority on this they experience these facts personally.

For an individual to the specific history of another is a very different thing. Maybe they do, or maybe its an assumption. However they can't personally experience the facts of another individual unless they are close to that individual, and even so would only personally know parts of that individuals history, and not all.

Exactly. ?

1 hour ago, Tramp Graphics said:

More that he doesn't know that individual by anything more than reputation. That is not enough for him to claim to be an authority on Jango Fett.

Your source that the Prime Minister of Mandalore has no information to make such a statement about Fett’s history?

1 hour ago, Stan Fresh said:

When, in the relevant material - the movies and Clone Wars - does Jango claim to be Mandalorian?

Poor phrasing on my part. Fair point. He was referred to as Mandalorian by Obi-Wan, and Almec states that he wasn’t.

2 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Yeah. They're just trying to find some way to trip me up.?

Naw, like I said, this is no special circumstance. This is not targeting you. We disagree and that's no big deal. I'm sorry if you feel targeted in some way other than a friendly discussion wherein gentlefolk are allowed to disagree. I can accept that you feel one way and I feel another and while I've listened to your arguments, my opinion hasn't changed. Again I'm sorry if you feel attacked or singled out, I thought this was a spirited debate, not a vicious forum fight.

2 minutes ago, themensch said:

Naw, like I said, this is no special circumstance. This is not targeting you. We disagree and that's no big deal. I'm sorry if you feel targeted in some way other than a friendly discussion wherein gentlefolk are allowed to disagree. I can accept that you feel one way and I feel another and while I've listened to your arguments, my opinion hasn't changed. Again I'm sorry if you feel attacked or singled out, I thought this was a spirited debate, not a vicious forum fight.

No offense taken.

8 minutes ago, Nytwyng said:

Your source that the Prime Minister of Mandalore has no information to make such a statement about Fett’s history?

Why would he know? Does any politician know everything about all of his constituents? Would any politician know every individual who shares the same culture? Of course not. Particularly if said person is completely out of the same circles. Almec would have no reason to know anything about Jango Fett aside form his reputation as a bounty hunter.

If pc Toydarians were meant to have resistance /immunity mind trick then their abilities would have reflected it and their starting xp would be reduced accordingly, the only other source of force resistance/immunity is droids and their benefits net them a 45 xp penalty and approx in a skill compared with other races, for this they get force immunity for mind affecting force abilities, 1 rank of enduring , 1 extra rank in a career skill ( when compared with humans they get the same amount of free ranks, excpet droids free ranks are all in career) , they dont need to eat or sleep and they get a reduced penalty to mechanics checks to heal , when compared with meatbags . Given all of that a race with similar immunity and having that stat block of a similar to a twilek (3/2/2/2/2/1) with an additional force immunity to mind tricks should star with 80-90 starting xp, which they dont.

This all being said is a total waste of time to argue one way or another. There is only one canon source and that was Watto himself, and saying that he is a reliable source isnt exactly accurate. Bib Fortuna said that Like "is no jedi" so does that make it true, the only thing in Canon contradiciting this is Yoda (so far) and both him and Obiwan have been shown to be economical with the truth. So was Bib correct and Luke is no Jedi.

Moving further into the absurd you can find plenty of examples of people who were inaccurate with what they said.

It comes back to one thing and one thing alone, Your GM and how they view it. There is no right or wrong answer, although the new module does give the race immunity, but Im of the opinion if this was meant to be absolute for PCs then it would be mentioned in the stat block. The rules are there for people wo know the films inside out and those that dont, and those that don't could have no idea what Watto even said (if they hadnt seen TPM and had never read the EU material. All we know for certain is that Watto said "Mind tricks dont work on Toydarian only money." If you take this statement as being absolute fact, then taking it to the (also absurd) conclusion offering a Toydarian money should be as effective as a Jedi Mind Trick. Another canon source (The Clone Wars shows the Toydarians to have quite an honorable mindset , and also one of charity to those in need, which is quite opposed to what Watto said.

Another fact that we can deduce is that Watto is very mercenary , and places a high valur on money and a low value on charity, and the difficulty of the check would be harder when trying to get someone to go against rather than for their nature, so the actual comment could be only about Watto and not the Toydarian race.

Anyway observation over, ultimately your GM will do what they want, and all the arguing in the world wont get anyone to change their mind if they feel that strongly about it, but even the previous sourcebooks and EU material were pulling their info from that singular phrase.

Another example that is similar is the first EU novel, had Ysalamari, who were able to dampen the force. and there was plenty of material to also back this up. The one person who could make this canon at the time (George Lucas) abhored the idea that something living could live "outside the force" and was quite adamant about this , aparently. So just assuming because its been in previous sourcebooks made it canon now, or even back then is plain wrong also. The whole assumption that the EU back then was canon was totally wrong then as it is now, which bring us back to having one source , and we cannot assume that he is telling the truth , because the second part of what he said was proven to be false by another canon source.

42 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Why would he know? Does any politician know everything about all of his constituents? Would any politician know every individual who shares the same culture? Of course not. Particularly if said person is completely out of the same circles. Almec would have no reason to know anything about Jango Fett aside form his reputation as a bounty hunter.

Why wouldn’t he? Who said any politician knows everything about all of his or her constituents? We’re talking about one politician making a statement about one individual who has a reputation not only as a bounty hunter but as the template for the cloned army of a galactic power involved, at the time, in a galaxy-spanning war, and who would appear to be perceived by many as one of that politician’s constituents.

Under those circumstances, a politician being aware of that individual’s status makes at least as much sense as a street urchin wearing a vacuum protective armored flight suit as street clothes, yes?

All of which doesn’t take into account the simple truth of how LFL perceives canonicity: ancillary media (such as that which “proves” the Fetts are Mandalorian) counts until and unless contradicted on screen. There exists exactly one on-screen bit of information regarding Jango’s status as a Mandalorian: Almec’s statement that he isn’t.

The problem with that is that we can see that he is immune to the Mind trick. The fact that he attributes this to his race rather than to his just being greedy supports it being a racial ability.

1 minute ago, Nytwyng said:

Why wouldn’t he? Who said any politician knows everything about all of his or her constituents? We’re talking about one politician making a statement about one individual who has a reputation not only as a bounty hunter but as the template for the cloned army of a galactic power involved, at the time, in a galaxy-spanning war, and who would appear to be perceived by many as one of that politician’s constituents.

Under those circumstances, a politician being aware of that individual’s status makes at least as much sense as a street urchin wearing a vacuum protective armored flight suit as street clothes, yes?

All of which doesn’t take into account the simple truth of how LFL perceives canonicity: ancillary media (such as that which “proves” the Fetts are Mandalorian) counts until and unless contradicted on screen. There exists exactly one on-screen bit of information regarding Jango’s status as a Mandalorian: Almec’s statement that he isn’t.

No, it doesn't. Almec would have had no reason to have gone into in depth research about a simple bounty hunter, regardless of his reputation. Obi Wan's question was not something he would have expected, much less prepared for.

15 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

The problem with that is that we can see that he is immune to the Mind trick. The fact that he attributes this to his race rather than to his just being greedy supports it being a racial ability.

Yes, we see that he is immune. And, yes, he attributes it to his species. He further says that "only money" works on his species. You take a part of one (shady) character's statement as universal truth about his species, but dismiss the rest of his statement as applying only to him due to greed, when that's not what he said.

15 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

No, it doesn't. Almec would have had no reason to have gone into in depth research about a simple bounty hunter, regardless of his reputation. Obi Wan's question was not something he would have expected, much less prepared for.

Not that many "simple bounty hunters" served as the genetic template for the Grand Army of the Republic. You say that there's no reason for Almec to have researched the apparent perception that Fett was Mandalorian...but there's also no reason for him not to, particularly considering that his role as a "simple bounty hunter" and - more importantly - the source for millions of cloned soldiers bred solely for a purpose that is antithetical to the New Mandalorian philosophy of pacifism that Almec subscribed to.

As always, if Almec's statement is not to be believed, it should be no problem to locate the information on-screen that puts the lie to it. LFL has always been very open about the fact that on-screen information supersedes any other media. We have only one piece of on-screen information regarding Jango's status as a Mandalorian. Until and unless that is established as not being a matter of Almec talking out of his backside, it's what stands.

There are plenty of reasons not to. First off, he had many other responsibilities to meet. Without somehow knowing ahead of time that he was going to be asked about Fett, there is no reason for him to take time away from his duties to research the background of a bounty hunter, even one known to wear Mandalorian armor. And there is no way Almec would have known he was going to be asked about Jango Fett. Thus, he would have had no reason to waste time researching a bounty hunter's history and genealogy.

3 hours ago, TheShard said:

A species living around jedi would know if it was resistant or immune...

Why? Are we really suggesting that the Jedi were so callously flippant about going around mind-violating everyone in sight that it would become so easily apparent as to what species were completely impervious and what ones weren't? I mean, sure; my campaign paints the picture that the Jedi of the Old Republic were a bunch of pompous, self-righteous jackholes; but I never got the impression that that was the canon's intention.

Now. The way I look at the question of Jango being Mandalorian is both yes and no. Jango was not born on Mandalore. in that sense, he is not a Mandalorian by blood.However, he was born and raised on a Mandalorian colony world and raised in that culture and therefore is Mandalorian by culture.

3 minutes ago, Vorzakk said:

Why? Are we really suggesting that the Jedi were so callously flippant about going around mind-violating everyone in sight that it would become so easily apparent as to what species were completely impervious and what ones weren't? I mean, sure; my campaign paints the picture that the Jedi of the Old Republic were a bunch of pompous, self-righteous jackholes; but I never got the impression that that was the canon's intention.

No, but it is an ability Jedi were well known for.

On 10/24/2017 at 2:14 PM, ThreeAM said:

@themensch beat me to it. One could easily interpret (and I do) this is the equivalent of a gambler winning a hand and then saying "see kid, I never loose". Its not an Objective truth, its Watto's subjective truth that he is projecting as Objective.

But there is absolutely no evidence indicating that Watto was not stating an objective truth.

1 minute ago, RogueCorona said:

But there is absolutely no evidence indicating that Watto was not stating an objective truth.

Exactly, particularly since he isn't attributing it to his own personal "fortitude", but, rather to his species.

25 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

There are plenty of reasons not to. First off, he had many other responsibilities to meet. Without somehow knowing ahead of time that he was going to be asked about Fett, there is no reason for him to take time away from his duties to research the background of a bounty hunter, even one known to wear Mandalorian armor. And there is no way Almec would have known he was going to be asked about Jango Fett. Thus, he would have had no reason to waste time researching a bounty hunter's history and genealogy.

You keep focusing on Jango's status as a bounty hunter, while leaving out his concurrent status as the template for millions of clone soldiers marching across the galaxy in a galactic war. This status is antithetical to the New Mandalorian pacifist philosophy. If someone (wrongly) perceived as being a representative of a particular world/culture was responsible for such a large-scale transgression, it's perfectly reasonable for a world leader to be prepared to disavow that individual. I'm not sure why, exactly, you'd expect him to personally perform the research, given those many responsibilities that you mention. That's one of the many things that staffs are for.

26 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Now. The way I look at the question of Jango being Mandalorian is both yes and no. Jango was not born on Mandalore. in that sense, he is not a Mandalorian by blood.However, he was born and raised on a Mandalorian colony world and raised in that culture and therefore is Mandalorian by culture.

Perfectly logical headcanon.

It is, however, not currently supported on-screen. The only thing currently supported on-screen is that he isn't, period.

14 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Exactly, particularly since he isn't attributing it to his own personal "fortitude", but, rather to his species.

He also attributed susceptibility to money to his species, but you're not applying that aspect to the species as a whole.