48 minutes ago, Aaron Foss said:

Twin Laser Turret and Predator - are they both too good? For both of these, it seems like they easily outclass every other possible option, and that raises alarm bells in my head that something is probably wrong.

Is the HWK-290 too weak? It has good upgrade slots, but that dial is so awful for a ship that is supposed to be nimble, and the 1 red die is a joke.

Lastly, are there any house rules / tweaks you have had fun with in your games? We are definitely doing shared/pooled XP, and clearly we are trying to open up the ship options a bit, but I'm wondering what other little tweaks are out there that folks have enjoyed.

we have a slightly ....relaxed... approach to upgrades to say the least, definitely focusing on fun.

predator - we have made it something that is earned for killing 5 of a specific type of ship, we also made it a single re-roll regardless of PS and it's no longer an EPT.

TLT - in Battle Star Pallas this upgrade is locked until season 2, probably for good reason. not sure how you would do this in normal HotAC, but pitting it behind a PS wall would probably be a good idea.

if you want to give the HWK a hand, there is a title in the back of the aforementioned Battle Star Pallas that works as quite a nice fix, it costs 10pts, but it adds two bomb slots and an illicit slot, increases the primary weapon value by 1, and makes the primary weapon a turret.

fun/house rules - we do have a couple, and it has made it so pretty much any ship can be competitive (this also ties in with the fact that we don't alter the alliance overhaul or Vaksai titles).

1) We allow all ships, from all factions, large and small base. Once you pick your first ship (26pts, nothing higher than PS2) you are locked to that faction and can't change it later on.

2) We allow season 1 of the Custom Card League (from these very forums)

3) We also allow a little bit of flexibility with title cards.

3a) If a ship does not have an official title card available it can take the title card of any other ship in it's faction that uses the same size base, at triple the listed cost (minimum 3 to deal with 0pt titles).

3b) if a ship does have an official title card it may take another ships title at triple the cost (min 3pts) as long as its the same base-size. I'm this case the extra title uses up a mod slot

in case anyone was interested by the reasoning behind the title card changes - we felt that a title just represented a particular custom build of a space-frame, and as we are flying a squadron of mercenaries and bounty hunters it seemed right that we would also have pushed our ships past the norm.

and yes, if abused these rules can lead to some powerful builds - but keep in mind we fly in a squadron of 12 players on one table, so the AI has us firmly outnumbered

On 11/6/2017 at 3:06 AM, Aaron Foss said:

I think we're going to go with making the Alliance Overhaul title eat up a modification slot and cost some points. Probably 5-10ish. That way if someone wants to fly it as a more support-based ship, it doesn't cost them extra, but they can pump some points into it to get the guns powered up if they want.

That's pretty cool. I think the real problem is that once it's upgraded it is way more powerful, so limiting it's upgrades works.

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For the Vaksai , we're currently planning to have it replace the PS4 and PS8 (or just the PS6, pending further balance/fun discussion) earned upgrade modification slots with special "custom job" slots. With a "custom job" slot, the player can choose to either make the slot a scum astromech or illicit slot (can only choose each option once - no double astros!) or keep it as a modification upgrade but one that is flexible, allowing the equipped upgrade to be swapped in and out after the mission briefing to represent how easy the Khiraxz is to tinker with.

Seems like a good way to go!

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Some more balance questions that have cropped up in conversation:

Twin Laser Turret and Predator - are they both too good? For both of these, it seems like they easily outclass every other possible option, and that raises alarm bells in my head that something is probably wrong.

Well.....Predator is really the strong one. I allow it. I take it. My friend J-bot makes fun of me for it all the time and refuses to take it. He does well. I think it's just one of those things. We still struggle for the win quite often.

A lot of people think TLT's are super powerful, but I don't. They have range requirements. The max damage they can do is 2 a turn. They are great at picking off damaged ships. If you are playing were you don't pool XP, then they can be too powerful, but if you are pooling, it's OK. Also, the ships that can take them are not the most maneuverable and can be crushed if a formation comes at them. So, I think it's a good option, but not always the best option. Personally, I think Ion Cannon Turrets are freakin' great, especially in games with installations where ionizing them can pretty much destroy them or kick in the "hack" option.

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Is the HWK-290 too weak? It has good upgrade slots, but that dial is so awful for a ship that is supposed to be nimble, and the 1 red die is a joke.

Lastly, are there any house rules / tweaks you have had fun with in your games? We are definitely doing shared/pooled XP, and clearly we are trying to open up the ship options a bit, but I'm wondering what other little tweaks are out there that folks have enjoyed.

HWK too weak? I....have no idea. I decided that the next time we run through the campaign, that I'm going to go with a HWK. I think their dial is just so bad. I think there are a lot of options you can go with to improve it, but I haven't figured out what they are yet. The crew and illicit are where I'm going to look to do more. I almost wonder if a cargo would work for them? I mean, they are supposed to be a cargo ship (and actually a lot bigger than the model). I'm almost thinking that Cloaking Device and some sort of support role would work really well. They can't take Scavenger Crane and Cloaking, can they? Man...that would rock. I think if you go with their title and a Stealth Device, you can avoid a lot of damage. 3 green with a Focus (usually a stack) can avoid a lot of Tie Fighter shots. When it's worse than Ties, you might be in trouble. I really want to think about this one to make it work. I'm thinking Vectored Thrusters are going to be important. So many upgrades needed.

No other house rules. In fact, I don't consider pooled XP a house rule since the creator said the next time he does an update (whenever that is) he will change that to be official.

9 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

HWK too weak? I....have no idea. I decided that the next time we run through the campaign, that I'm going to go with a HWK. I think their dial is just so bad. I think there are a lot of options you can go with to improve it, but I haven't figured out what they are yet. The crew and illicit are where I'm going to look to do more. I almost wonder if a cargo would work for them? I mean, they are supposed to be a cargo ship (and actually a lot bigger than the model). I'm almost thinking that Cloaking Device and some sort of support role would work really well. They can't take Scavenger Crane and Cloaking, can they? Man...that would rock. I think if you go with their title and a Stealth Device, you can avoid a lot of damage. 3 green with a Focus (usually a stack) can avoid a lot of Tie Fighter shots. When it's worse than Ties, you might be in trouble. I really want to think about this one to make it work. I'm thinking Vectored Thrusters are going to be important. So many upgrades needed.

I ran a HWK in our last campaign and it was a great support ship. Struggling to remember my final build but it had Stealth device, double shield upgrade and VT for the mods. Scavenger crane in the illicit slot, TLT in the turret slot. Think I had recspec and tittle on there. EPT's pilot abilities (IIRC) was predator, Garven's ability, Miranda's ability and Kannan's ability. Basically made it a 7HP regening, focus passing, SD recovering horror. We always flew as a squadron so I'd keep it back for TLT range and pass focus tokens to the other pilots. It was slow to build up but once it got going with predator and Garven's ability it started to rack up a lot of XP for assists.

1 minute ago, Smutpedler said:

I ran a HWK in our last campaign and it was a great support ship. Struggling to remember my final build but it had Stealth device, double shield upgrade and VT for the mods. Scavenger crane in the illicit slot, TLT in the turret slot. Think I had recspec and tittle on there. EPT's pilot abilities (IIRC) was predator, Garven's ability, Miranda's ability and Kannan's ability. Basically made it a 7HP regening, focus passing, SD recovering horror. We always flew as a squadron so I'd keep it back for TLT range and pass focus tokens to the other pilots. It was slow to build up but once it got going with predator and Garven's ability it started to rack up a lot of XP for assists.

I like that! Scavenger Crane with Stealth is good. You know ships blow up around you.

J-bot built a great support T-65 around M9-G8 (lets you re-roll their attack dice). He took Tarn and Dutch's ability. So, whenever someone shot at him, he could get a TL on that ship, then pass a TL to another ship. Adjust their attack dice, and do it as many times as people shot at him, giving out TL's as he goes. It was really effective and he built up a lot of Support XP points.

I wonder if there is a good Sabine build in there? Take Extra Munitions as a Mod and get 2 bombs. Not sure if it's worth it for just 2 bombs, though.

Sabine's ability in HotAC is great, though. Free Boost or BR before you move? Could be good on a HWK.

7 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

I like that! Scavenger Crane with Stealth is good. You know ships blow up around you.

J-bot built a great support T-65 around M9-G8 (lets you re-roll their attack dice). He took Tarn and Dutch's ability. So, whenever someone shot at him, he could get a TL on that ship, then pass a TL to another ship. Adjust their attack dice, and do it as many times as people shot at him, giving out TL's as he goes. It was really effective and he built up a lot of Support XP points.

I wonder if there is a good Sabine build in there? Take Extra Munitions as a Mod and get 2 bombs. Not sure if it's worth it for just 2 bombs, though.

Sabine's ability in HotAC is great, though. Free Boost or BR before you move? Could be good on a HWK.

That's a nice X-Wing build, different but clever.

One of our players had a Sabine/PTL B-Wing that was surprisingly mobile and hit like a truck. We've had 2 campaigns now and I've tried out different playstyles in both, support HWK was interesting but not as fun as my first build which was a PTL/R2A arc dodging T-65.

We're looking at running our 3rd campaign starting next week with a couple of tweaks. We found the A-Wing to be pretty lackluster so we're going to allow it as a starting ship and give the option of the ARC-170 and U-Wing unlocked at PS6. Both of these ships fit the theme and don't look to be broken on paper so hopefully they should be fine. I think the U-Wing actually has enough drawbacks being on a large base to not make it just a straight B-Wing replacement. I've no idea where to go with this one though, I like the idea of a U-Wing simply because I love the model. That said; I think Sabines ability on a U-Wing would be pretty silly, might be worth us limiting that to "small ship only".

1 hour ago, Smutpedler said:

We found the A-Wing to be pretty lackluster so we're going to allow it as a starting ship and give the option of the ARC-170 and U-Wing unlocked at PS6.

Make sure to read the rest of the thread on the ARC-170.

Yeah, I will either do a HWK or an A-wing in the next campaign. I think with A-wing, you have to go Outmaneuver as your first pick for EPT. Otherwise you won't hit anything. Harpoon Missiles or even Cruise Missiles look interesting, though. Maybe even Assault Missiles? I think Harpoons where you get an extra XP each time someone hits it with a crit is good, though that ship won't last long, unless it's one of the Shuttles or something.

I think you would have to do the A-wing as something that tries to draw the attention of the formations and then gets away. That or it goes for the objectives as best as possible while the rest of the list blows stuff up.

51 minutes ago, heychadwick said:

Make sure to read the rest of the thread on the ARC-170.

Yeah, I will either do a HWK or an A-wing in the next campaign. I think with A-wing, you have to go Outmaneuver as your first pick for EPT. Otherwise you won't hit anything. Harpoon Missiles or even Cruise Missiles look interesting, though. Maybe even Assault Missiles? I think Harpoons where you get an extra XP each time someone hits it with a crit is good, though that ship won't last long, unless it's one of the Shuttles or something.

I think you would have to do the A-wing as something that tries to draw the attention of the formations and then gets away. That or it goes for the objectives as best as possible while the rest of the list blows stuff up.

Yeah, I think Outmaneuver is pretty much necessary for an A-Wing. Harpoons will help them out with so many formation flying TIE's to hit, if there's manglers of Calculation anywhere else in the squad it could make short work of blocks of TIE's. Assault missiles are not a bad option either but I think Harpoons are probably a better choice. The problem is that once they're fired off it's just running around and trying to plink things down, if you end up making a positioning mistake it can still melt really easily with a couple of blank outs and there's no way to get regen on there for more survivablility. It looks fun but not very effective.

Some interesting points about the ARC, I like the idea of making the title take a mod slot. Helps keep it in line with the older ships. I'm interested to see how the U-Wing goes though, missions with the minefields and ion storms are a tough one for it to deal with. Unless you take Hera crew and just stay still popping mines, still leaves you trying to dodge the ion storms with a large base in other missions though.

On 10/24/2017 at 10:07 AM, SabineKey said:

We have two ARCs in my HotAC play group and they seem to be doing well. They are a bit tankier than the B-Wing in our group and the secondary arc helps, but the B-Wing is still bringing more firepower.

I've wrote up rules for upgrading to An ARC-170. Also did the U-wing.

On 10/24/2017 at 10:53 AM, Sparklelord said:

Dude, Y-Wings outshine the T-65 in HotAC

In resiliency, maybe.

Bringing this thread back up for a question on another ship.

I am contemplaing, expanding the rebel list to include the Auzituk gunship (wookie!!) since it is era specific.

Is it comparible to the others that are already in the game?

15 hours ago, LTuser said:

I am contemplaing, expanding the rebel list to include the Auzituk gunship (wookie!!) since it is era specific.

Is it comparible to the others that are already in the game?

I normally don’t like feeding necro threads but you ask an interesting question 😂 (maybe start anew thread next time 😉 )

The issue I would have with the Auzituk would be the first edition reinforce action. It is very bad for 2 dice attack ship... which I’m sure you’ll appreciate is bad for the many TIE Fighters you’ll encounter in HotAC and could make the game too easy. I’d allow it using second edition reinforce rules.

I wouldn't let you start with it. I also don't like the ARC as an option as it can just be too powerful.

7 hours ago, Sasajak said:

I normally don’t like feeding necro threads but you ask an interesting question 😂 (maybe start anew thread next time 😉 )

The issue I would have with the Auzituk would be the first edition reinforce action. It is very bad for 2 dice attack ship... which I’m sure you’ll appreciate is bad for the many TIE Fighters you’ll encounter in HotAC and could make the game too easy. I’d allow it using second edition reinforce rules.

Copy that. and while true, a 2 attack die fighter may suck vs a ship with a reinforce action, but not every mission is just going to have tie fighters..

Anything about starting with a Quadjumper? If I ever get the chance to play HotAC again I would love to try it. Amazing support ship!

18 minutes ago, dunhop said:

Anything about starting with a Quadjumper? If I ever get the chance to play HotAC again I would love to try it. Amazing support ship!

But talk about a conflict of interests. You want to go up in PS so you can get more slots and abilities, but you also want to stay low so that you can move before your targets to tractor them.

I wonder where sequel trilogy stuff fits into this?

21 hours ago, heychadwick said:

I wouldn't let you start with it. I also don't like the ARC as an option as it can just be too powerful.

That was my impression with 1.0 HotAc as well. The old AI has problems handling permanent rear arcs on a Rebel ship like the Arc, making it easy for the Arc pilot to have targets all the time, then add in the synergies, and the Empire side has problems. That I would expect to have an influence as well with the Auzitucks 180 arc which neither was existing when the AI was developed, on top of the 1.0 reinforce problem.

The AI probably neither can handle the rear maneuvers and tractor shenanigans of the Quadjumper.

One thing which weakens 1.0 Quad and 1.0 Arc170 somewhat in HotAc is that they are rather slow, so scenarios where the Rebels have to hit and run, fast over the map, they might have a problem.

1 minute ago, Managarmr said:

That was my impression with 1.0 HotAc as well. The old AI has problems handling permanent rear arcs on a Rebel ship like the Arc, making it easy for the Arc pilot to have targets all the time, then add in the synergies, and the Empire side has problems. That I would expect to have an influence as well with the Auzitucks 180 arc which neither was existing when the AI was developed, on top of the 1.0 reinforce problem.

The AI probably neither can handle the rear maneuvers and tractor shenanigans of the Quadjumper.

One thing which weakens 1.0 Quad and 1.0 Arc170 somewhat in HotAc is that they are rather slow, so scenarios where the Rebels have to hit and run, fast over the map, they might have a problem.

I feel there was more to it than just the rear firing arc. Part if it was power curve. I knew of a lot of groups that felt it was boring to start with just the X-wing and Y-wing. They wanted to start with something like the ARC. Next, you gain levels and experience. The ARC has so many slots to fill. You can also get all those extra Talents and Modifications. If you compare this ship to an X-wing, once you hit mid and higher levels, the ARC is a vastly superior ship. I almost think you have to limit the number of Talents and Mods you can get on the ship to make it of the same power level.

Remember though. As your ships get better (higher in PS), so do the imperials...

On 8/14/2019 at 11:54 AM, dunhop said:

Anything about starting with a Quadjumper? If I ever get the chance to play HotAC again I would love to try it. Amazing support ship!

There is a S&V option? Last I knew HotAC only supported Imps and Rebs.

1 hour ago, Hiemfire said:

There is a S&V option? Last I knew HotAC only supported Imps and Rebs.

I can’t remember who or where, but a Scum “module” was made. It was still the same missions, you could just pick Scum ships too. Played a few games, utilizing a Unhinged Astromech Y-Wing while a buddy started with a K-Fighter.

Edit: Upon reflection, I think I switched from the Unhinged, opting went for a BTL/Synched Turret/agromech build. Kind of fun, but I think going for a torp build is better.