I was reading through wookieepedia and didnt get a clue.
What is the origin of the 350 credits rarity 8 sword in the melee section?

Every jedi and sith sword i found was faaaar to old, rare and powerful. Do i miss something obvious?

3 minutes ago, Greyxi said:

I was reading through wookieepedia and didnt get a clue.
What is the origin of the 350 credits rarity 8 sword in the melee section?

Every jedi and sith sword i found was faaaar to old, rare and powerful. Do i miss something obvious ?

Yep. It's just an old metal sword. The end. Nothing special about it. Not a vibrosword, not empowered by ancient Sith sorcery. Just a regular sharpened bar of metal.

The origin is of your own making. A family heirloom; an object found in an archaeological dig; a relic taken from a temple or stolen from a museum.

Perhaps it's just crafted in the old style of those ancient Sith swords, and not actually a specimen thousands of years old.

But in any case, who says they're too old? They're imbued with the Force. They're like magical weapons. It's not a stretch to assume that such weapons could be immune to wear and corrosion

Ok, thanks. Got the point and a hook for the next session.

As for mechanically, I'm pretty sure they exist to provide PCs that use Lightsaber skill some sort of offensive weapon option before they hit the point of actually wielding lightsabers, as well as prevent it from being as obvious as a training saber.

I think it refers to the swords used by the Je'daii and early Jedi before the invention of the lightsabre. They were imbued with the Force to connect them to their wielder. Since it's a lightsabre substitute I'd go with it as one of those, maybe handed down or recognized and bought somewhere by the PC. They're rare and to the untrained eye looks like nothing more than an old sword but is more available mechanically to a PC than a lightsaber.

Keep in mind that prices aren't necessarily equal to their value to a PC, it's just a guide for comparison (you shouldn't be able to buy a lightsabre for 10Kcr but if you did it would cost around that. Also these are items for your particular universe so it's possible only a few exist outside of museums or private collections and the PC was able to acquire it from a source unfamiliar with them or from someone sympathetic to the Jedi.

The Ancient Sword exists solely so players can start out at character creation with a weapon that utilizes their Lightsaber skill. That is why its rarity and price is set the way it is. The suggestions here are pretty solid. I wouldn't overthink the details.

I will let my jedi build himself a simple force imbued "simple" weapon. It feels more fluffwise for me.
I will use the rules of Special Modifications and aim for a walking stick (because there are some known jedis without a lightsaber but with a walking stick or staff instead).

If my player really wants, he also can built a sword, but in the end it doesnt matter

The idea of an ancient sword out of an museum, which is almost worthless for nonforcesensetives will be used for another plot

The Ancient Sword uses the Lightsaber skill and counts as a Lightsaber weapon for talents such as Reflect. The same is true of the Training Stick from Disciples of Harmony, which is essentially a Jedi Bokken .

Side note, there's a training stick in the Nexus of Power sourcebook that uses the Lightsaber skill, and pretty much looks like a walking stick. It's not great as a melee weapon, but it's a lot less obvious than a training lightsaber, and only costs a fraction of the credits.

Also, in the Echoes of the Past fan module by Maveritchell, he included stats for a Training Lightsaber that's akin to the high-tech bokken used in the SWTOR MMO:

Archaic Training Lightsaber
Skill: Lightsaber
Damage: 5
Crit: 4
Range: Engaged
Encumbrance: 2
HP: 0
Price: listed as 1000 credits, but you could safely drop this by half
Rarity: 10
Special: Stun Damage, Defensive 1, Disorient 2, Pierce 5

Quick question that I don't really want to start a new thread for.

If a PC was using a training stick (+1 Dam and uses the Lightsaber skill) as a Makashi Duelist with the necessary talent upgrades would the base damage be dictated by their Presence?

Obviously this would apply to similar fighting careers that offer the use _______ characteristic instead of Brawn for the lightsaber skill.

6 minutes ago, VadersMarchKazoo said:

Quick question that I don't really want to start a new thread for.

If a PC was using a training stick (+1 Dam and uses the Lightsaber skill) as a Makashi Duelist with the necessary talent upgrades would the base damage be dictated by their Presence?

Obviously this would apply to similar fighting careers that offer the use _______ characteristic instead of Brawn for the lightsaber skill.

Yes. That is correct.

2 hours ago, VadersMarchKazoo said:

Quick question that I don't really want to start a new thread for.

If a PC was using a training stick (+1 Dam and uses the Lightsaber skill) as a Makashi Duelist with the necessary talent upgrades would the base damage be dictated by their Presence?

Obviously this would apply to similar fighting careers that offer the use _______ characteristic instead of Brawn for the lightsaber skill.

2 hours ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Yes. That is correct.

I'm going to have to disagree. Assuming I've understood the question correctly, you're asking if a training stick used with Makashi Training does Presence +1 damage rather than Brawn +1.

If so, the answer is no. You still cause Brawn +1 damage. The rules state the following:

Quote

When making a check using the Lightsaber skill, the character may use Presence instead of Brawn.

To me that looks like it only applies to skill checks, not damage. I looked through various NPCs but couldn't find anyone statted out with an alternative Lightsaber characteristic and weapon with brawn-based damage, so I'm only about 95% sure though.

1 minute ago, penpenpen said:

I'm going to have to disagree. Assuming I've understood the question correctly, you're asking if a training stick used with Makashi Training does Presence +1 damage rather than Brawn +1.

If so, the answer is no. You still cause Brawn +1 damage. The rules state the following:

To me that looks like it only applies to skill checks, not damage. I looked through various NPCs but couldn't find anyone statted out with an alternative Lightsaber characteristic and weapon with brawn-based damage, so I'm only about 95% sure though.

Yep. Damage is always Brawn. I might have misread the question.

12 hours ago, VadersMarchKazoo said:

Quick question that I don't really want to start a new thread for.

If a PC was using a training stick (+1 Dam and uses the Lightsaber skill) as a Makashi Duelist with the necessary talent upgrades would the base damage be dictated by their Presence?

Obviously this would apply to similar fighting careers that offer the use _______ characteristic instead of Brawn for the lightsaber skill.

Nope, as the Form Technique talents do not affect damage, they only affect what characteristic you use to make the Lightsaber skill check. Heck, the talent descriptions themselves cite that they only modify the skill check.

Base damage for weapons like the training stick and ancient sword would still be dictated by your character's Brawn characteristic.

OK, thanks guys. That's exactly what I was asking. I could see it both ways. The talent reads:

Makashi Technique: Force talent . When making a check using the Lightsaber skill the character may use Presence instead of Brawn.

I could see this applying to just the roll/check (perhaps as RAW) but I could also see this affecting damage (perhaps RAI). There are only a few cases where this matters given that most lightsabers have a fixed base damage. I mean sort of the point of the talent is that the character is drawing on something other than brute force for their fighting ability so, in a way I sort of see that it could impact damage (though of course it does simply through the check). The other issue is that means that this technique is very strong with lightsabers but neutered when using a handful of weapons that use the same skill.

In the last session, and in the heat of the moment, I ruled that Presence would be used to set the base damage following the old rule: When in doubt, choose the option that is better for the player.

6 hours ago, Donovan Morningfire said:

Nope, as the Form Technique talents do not affect damage, they only affect what characteristic you use to make the Lightsaber skill check. Heck, the talent descriptions themselves cite that they only modify the skill check.

Base damage for weapons like the training stick and ancient sword would still be dictated by your character's Brawn characteristic.

OK had to go back and refresh memory with the CRB but after referencing the rule book on page 210 regarding "Perform a combat check". A combat check (similar to other skill checks) consists of 6 steps including:

Step 1: Declare the attack and select targets.

Step 2: Assemble the dice pool.

Step 3: Pool results and deal damage

Step 4 and 5: Resolve Adv, threat, disp and triumphs

Step 6: Reduce damage, apply to wound threshold and apply crits.

So based on this I would think that the Makashi Duelist Talent applies to this Combat check more broadly than just "assemble the dice pool" which is step 2. More to the point, based on the description of the talent as well the description of the Combat check, I'm thinking that Presence would be used to set the base damage.

9 minutes ago, VadersMarchKazoo said:

OK had to go back and refresh memory with the CRB but after referencing the rule book on page 210 regarding "Perform a combat check". A combat check (similar to other skill checks) consists of 6 steps including:

Step 1: Declare the attack and select targets.

Step 2: Assemble the dice pool.

Step 3: Pool results and deal damage

Step 4 and 5: Resolve Adv, threat, disp and triumphs

Step 6: Reduce damage, apply to wound threshold and apply crits.

So based on this I would think that the Makashi Duelist Talent applies to this Combat check more broadly than just "assemble the dice pool" which is step 2.

Yes, but the actual check to the skill check itself, and that is the die roll. That is what the talent modifies. Specifically, it determines what base attribute you use to create your dice pool . your dice pool does not determine the damage. That is determiend solely by the weapon's base damage and any succeses rolled. Melee and Brawl weapons are all Brawn based weapons. This is not altered by the dice pool.

14 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Yes, but the actual check to the skill check itself, and that is the die roll. That is what the talent modifies. Specifically, it determines what base attribute you use to create your dice pool . your dice pool does not determine the damage. That is determiend solely by the weapon's base damage and any succeses rolled. Melee and Brawl weapons are all Brawn based weapons. This is not altered by the dice pool.

After reviewing the rule book I disagree. The book clearly states (on pg 210 and 211) that the combat check is a specific type of skill check but has a couple additional steps (six total). This indicates that a "skill check" or "combat check" is a multistep process. If you can show me in the book where a skill check is confined to "step 2: assemble the dice pool" then please show me (a reference would be appreciated).

As far as Melee and Brawl weapons are based on Brawn. You need to refer the the Makashi Duelist talent which is specifically written to make an exception to the standard use of Brawn.

Just for reference:

59 minutes ago, VadersMarchKazoo said:

Makashi Technique: Force talent . When making a check using the Lightsaber skill the character may use Presence instead of Brawn.

1 minute ago, VadersMarchKazoo said:

After reviewing the rule book I disagree. The book clearly states (on pg 210 and 211) that the combat check is a specific type of skill check but has a couple additional steps (six total). This indicates that a "skill check" or "combat check" is a multistep process. If you can show me in the book where a skill check is confined to "step 2: assemble the dice pool" then please show me (a reference would be appreciated).

As far as Melee and Brawl weapons be based on Brawn. You need to refer the the Makashi Duelist talent which is specifically written to make an exception to the standard use of Brawn.

Just for reference:

Yes, that is for the skill check itself . not the weapon's damage. The "Brawn + x" damage a melee weapon does is the weapon's stats, not the user's. No matter what attribute you're using for the skill check, a melee weapon's damage is based upon how much power can be put into the swing or thrust. That is determined by your Brawn stat.

If you want a more definitive answer, then I suggest you ask the developers here.

3 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

Yes, that is for the skill check itself . not the weapon's damage. The "Brawn + x" damage a melee weapon does is the weapon's stats, not the user's. No matter what attribute you're using for the skill check, a melee weapon's damage is based upon how much power can be put into the swing or thrust. That is determined by your Brawn stat.

Yeah, I think this is the best counter arguement. Also in the CRB it states: "When wielding a Melee weapon, users add their Brawn characteristic to the damage health, unless the weapon's description indicates otherwise. When a Melee weapon has it's own stated damage, the inclusion of a plus sign next to the damage indicates that the user's Brawn is added to the damage dealt."

So you're argument that it's the weapons stats and not the users stats seem somewhat legit.

10 minutes ago, Tramp Graphics said:

If you want a more definitive answer, then I suggest you ask the developers here.

Done. I'll post a response if and when I get one. Thanks-

Question sent to Dev's: My question pertains to the use of the talent "Makashi Technique: Force talent. When making a check using the Lightsaber skill the character may use Presence instead of Brawn." when using this with an Ancient Sword or Training Stick that would use the lightsaber skill but have a base damage of +2 or +1, respectively. When using this talent with these weapons is the base damage is set by the characters Presence or Brawn? Of course this would be similar to other Talents that allow the use of alternative characteristics for the lightsaber skill.

Response:

The damage by those weapons would still be set by Brawn, not Presence.

Hope this helps!

You got an answer in under 10 minutes? That's amazing.