I feel like part of their strength traditionally has been the "Gunner" style ability of IG-88B, but Gunner just isn't great against today's metagame.
Reprogramming the Aggressor
1 hour ago, theBitterFig said:I feel like part of their strength traditionally has been the "Gunner" style ability of IG-88B, but Gunner just isn't great against today's metagame.
I mean, it's not but Miranda still dies in 4 shots. She cannot regen fast enough to match the incoming damage, she cannot regen if she's not in range to shoot, and she can't even get out of arc unless she's slamming and/or the aggressor ate a net. Also her TLT is worthless except for its regen.
20 hours ago, Jeff Wilder said:Just so it's clear, the half-MoV rule isn't a FAQ rule, it's a tournament rule.
Why does this matter? Well, under the current ridiculousness, all Large ships are (theoretically) being designed and balanced with recognition of a "rule" that doesn't even exist in non-competitive play.
The implications of this are pretty amazing. (And not in a good way. But that's what "stupid-but-easy" fixes get you.)
An important distinction, thank you for pointing that out.
Has anyone had much experience with asymmetric builds? I have been mentally-juggling something like this:
AdvSen+PTL BroBots (100)
•IG88-B (52) - Aggressor
Push The Limit (3), Advanced Sensors (3), Heavy Laser Cannon (7), Inertial Dampeners (1), IG-2000 (0), Autothrusters (2)
•IG88-C (48) - Aggressor
Push The Limit (3), Advanced Sensors (3), "Mangler" Cannon (4), IG-2000 (0), Autothrusters (2)
Add content and squad list example
On 10/23/2017 at 11:51 PM, Marinealver said:I think FFG was a little too worried about something.
oh well
They didn’t fear Bots...they just wanted to make sure the Glorious HIppoShuttlebus didn’t rise again! Or the Firespray...
rerolls for two of the games least powerful large bases (and, know, original ships, and, well sure, they are imperial) who don’t actually use the cannon slot most of the time would be too good.
I think it would have helped all of those ships find new life... not convinced it would have put the bots over the top either.
1 hour ago, AT Leader said:Has anyone had much experience with asymmetric builds? I have been mentally-juggling something like this:
AdvSen+PTL BroBots (100)
•IG88-B (52) - Aggressor
Push The Limit (3), Advanced Sensors (3), Heavy Laser Cannon (7), Inertial Dampeners (1), IG-2000 (0), Autothrusters (2)•IG88-C (48) - Aggressor
Push The Limit (3), Advanced Sensors (3), "Mangler" Cannon (4), IG-2000 (0), Autothrusters (2)
PTL + AdvSen BroBots are far and above the best build. People are OCD, so they don't fly them as the lists become asymmetrical like you show.
2x Brobots is a list with many weaknesses. I would say the best Brobot lists have a single bot paired with a ship or ships that cover it's weaknesses. Asajj at PS6 is an obvious pairing, and you can even use IG-88 crew if you really want. In this meta, IG-88C is the best standalone bot. HLC is punchy enough so as to not need IG-88B gunner effect.
IG88-C (51) --- PTL / AdvSen / Autothrust / HLC [add 2nd cannon or illicit to taste]
2 hours ago, Rakky Wistol said:They didn’t fear Bots...they just wanted to make sure the Glorious HIppoShuttlebus didn’t rise again! Or the Firespray...
rerolls for two of the games least powerful large bases (and, know, original ships, and, well sure, they are imperial) who don’t actually use the cannon slot most of the time would be too good.
I think it would have helped all of those ships find new life... not convinced it would have put the bots over the top either.
When did the firespray ever rise?
1 hour ago, Marinealver said:When did the firespray ever rise?
I believe it is was in the top world's table in Wave 2.
18 minutes ago, Punning Pundit said:I believe it is was in the top world's table in Wave 2.
Nope that was between 2 different swarm. A Howlrunner and an Obsidian (8 TIE) swarm. The next closest archetype was the X-wing triumvirate (Wedge, Luke, and Biggs). Firesprays were no where to be found. You are probably thinking of a list example which was put out in an FFG article in support of Wave 2 ships. We all know how well those tend to work in the meta.
Edited by MarinealverFiresprays were very strong for a while. Triple Bounty Hunters, while not broken like triple Scouts, was a legitimately good list.
Doug Kinney's "Additional Damage" (two Bounty Hunters, with Assault Missiles and Seismics, plus Howlrunner) was very strong in one of the early big VASSAL tourneys. I lost to him in a speed game at GenCon ... 2013? I was flying Vader, Soontir, Backstabber, Dark Curse ("Murder of Crows").
This was back in the glorious days when a list could be strong, and a contender, without being broken. Good times.
7 hours ago, AT Leader said:An important distinction, thank you for pointing that out.
Has anyone had much experience with asymmetric builds? I have been mentally-juggling something like this:
AdvSen+PTL BroBots (100)
•IG88-B (52) - Aggressor
Push The Limit (3), Advanced Sensors (3), Heavy Laser Cannon (7), Inertial Dampeners (1), IG-2000 (0), Autothrusters (2)•IG88-C (48) - Aggressor
Push The Limit (3), Advanced Sensors (3), "Mangler" Cannon (4), IG-2000 (0), Autothrusters (2)
This build (but with the HLC on C instead, and no Inertial Dampeners) was the first Scum list to win any National Championship (UK 2015). Few months after that, I also took 3rd at the Scandinavian Nationals with it. Even two years later it's still an excellent squad.
23 hours ago, Dengar5 said:PTL + AdvSen BroBots are far and above the best build. People are OCD, so they don't fly them as the lists become asymmetrical like you show.
2x Brobots is a list with many weaknesses. I would say the best Brobot lists have a single bot paired with a ship or ships that cover it's weaknesses. Asajj at PS6 is an obvious pairing, and you can even use IG-88 crew if you really want. In this meta, IG-88C is the best standalone bot. HLC is punchy enough so as to not need IG-88B gunner effect.
IG88-C (51) --- PTL / AdvSen / Autothrust / HLC [add 2nd cannon or illicit to taste]
I must admit this looks like fun!
IG-88C + Asajj (100)
•IG88-C (51) - Aggressor
Push The Limit (3), Advanced Sensors (3), Heavy Laser Cannon (7), Autothrusters (2)
•Asajj Ventress (49) - Lancer-class Pursuit Craft
Push The Limit (3), •Latts Razzi (2), Shadow Caster (3), Engine Upgrade (4)
I am less familiar with Asajj. This is the build that seemed instinctual, but I can see the IG crew or Glitterstim on one or both being the right call. Any thoughts on how to kit Asajj here?
11 hours ago, AT Leader said:•IG88-C (51) - Aggressor
Push The Limit (3), Advanced Sensors (3), Heavy Laser Cannon (7), Autothrusters (2)
•Asajj Ventress (49) - Lancer-class Pursuit Craft
Push The Limit (3), •Latts Razzi (2), Shadow Caster (3), Engine Upgrade (4)I am less familiar with Asajj. This is the build that seemed instinctual, but I can see the IG crew or Glitterstim on one or both being the right call. Any thoughts on how to kit Asajj here?
100% engine upgrade like you have it. PTL is best, especially with engine upgrade. That's a list I would not want to face in a tournament.
Has anyone tried the crew card ??
VI or PTL, Engine Upgrade Dengar with IG88 crew seems pretty good ?
Match with Agressor build of choice. I like free evades and Adv Sensors
On 10/28/2017 at 10:57 AM, Marinealver said:When did the firespray ever rise?
It was a contender in wave 2. 3 FS or 2 + howlrunner we’re both regularly seen then.
On 10/30/2017 at 5:09 AM, AT Leader said:I must admit this looks like fun!
IG-88C + Asajj (100)
•IG88-C (51) - Aggressor
Push The Limit (3), Advanced Sensors (3), Heavy Laser Cannon (7), Autothrusters (2)•Asajj Ventress (49) - Lancer-class Pursuit Craft
Push The Limit (3), •Latts Razzi (2), Shadow Caster (3), Engine Upgrade (4)I am less familiar with Asajj. This is the build that seemed instinctual, but I can see the IG crew or Glitterstim on one or both being the right call. Any thoughts on how to kit Asajj here?
23 hours ago, Dengar5 said:100% engine upgrade like you have it. PTL is best, especially with engine upgrade. That's a list I would not want to face in a tournament.
I agree wholeheartedly: Not least is the fact that if Asajj and IG-88 are shooting simultaneously, so they can choose which order to inflict the Tractor Beam token - either to improve IG-88's shot, or to let IG-88 go first before the compulsory-positioning drags it into an inconvinient arc/range band.
I'd be half tempted to consider Mindlink on the two for the 4pt discount, but whether that's worth the loss of endgame firepower is a matter for debate. Definitely frees up IG-88's dial, though, including those sweet sloops, so it's hard to say either way... beyond that it's a pain in the *** to fight.
5 hours ago, Rakky Wistol said:It was a contender in wave 2. 3 FS or 2 + howlrunner we’re both regularly seen then.
So kind of like Shuttles in Wave 4. They could be built up to be good, but never win any big tournaments.
yah. Or defenders when they dropped. Some people made them work but they don’t inherently WORK. It often speaks more to the player but they didn’t really win big ones.
On 10/28/2017 at 7:35 AM, AT Leader said:An important distinction, thank you for pointing that out.
Has anyone had much experience with asymmetric builds? I have been mentally-juggling something like this:
AdvSen+PTL BroBots (100)
•IG88-B (52) - Aggressor
Push The Limit (3), Advanced Sensors (3), Heavy Laser Cannon (7), Inertial Dampeners (1), IG-2000 (0), Autothrusters (2)•IG88-C (48) - Aggressor
Push The Limit (3), Advanced Sensors (3), "Mangler" Cannon (4), IG-2000 (0), Autothrusters (2)
If you go asymmetric, but the HLC on C, not B. If B has both the gunner effect and the HLC it's a no-brainer for your opponent: they kill B first every time. Change the cannon distribution and the equation is a little more complex.
On 27/10/2017 at 8:50 PM, theBitterFig said:I feel like part of their strength traditionally has been the "Gunner" style ability of IG-88B, but Gunner just isn't great against today's metagame.
The meta is full of agi 1 ships. You just don't really need of any Gunner effect, that's why control bots are actually better than the HLC one.