I want to start a discussion about what it would take to make Scum Aggressors viable again. They are not completely unusable, but feel in need of a shot of adrenaline, or at least some caffeine. I was hopeful when I first saw speculation about the linked cannon upgrade that it would be something for BroBots, but alas it got tagged Small Ship Only.

In your constructive opinion, what would make BroBots competitive again? What reasonable upgrade would you print to revitalize them? Or, what upgrade to make the Aggressor playable alongside other ships?

Control Bots are a thing.

Adv. Sensors, Push the Limit, Autothrusters, and IG title, then add

Ion Canon, Tractor Beam, Ion Bombs, Rigged Cargo Shute to your liking.

I think that any attempt at buffing the IG-2000 will come in the form of a double-cannon upgrade that uses both slots. They're currently one of only two ships that could use such a card, so it'd be a logical place to target an upgrade.

I'm not sure the Aggressor really is in a bad spot, per se, so much as the Scum faction otherwise having such OMGWTFBBQ OP AF stuff going on that everyone just flies the 'broken' combos.

The only thing truly weak about them is the same thing that has killed off most Imperial ace/agility lists - the current meta favors HP over green dice. Perhaps a tweak to autothrusters? Let them roll defense against bombs?

I've played Bots since they've come out, in several configurations. While they have so much going for them and are possibly the most well balanced ship in the game, their biggest weakness meta-wise is the half-point MOV. With so much auto-damage, alpha-strikes, regen, and death-by-a-thousand-cuts out there you can burn down an 8 HP ship in 2 good rounds (looking at you NymGar).

Even being the only large base with 3 Evade and having AT helps, against strong meta squads you can expect to lose 1.5 of them each match. Resulting in a 75 squad point loss per game. You'll never win a tournament loosing that amount of points per opponent. Even if you get lucky and beat that opponent, the MOV loss is too high.

I think FFG was a little too worried about something.

oh well

Brobots are fine

3 hours ago, Synthetix said:

... their biggest weakness meta-wise is the half-point MOV...

... Even if you get lucky and beat that opponent, the MOV loss is too high.

This won't be the first time this had been suggested, but as good a place as any to repeat:

The half-point MOV rule should be revised to only apply to ships with a total health greater than 8, irrespective of base-size.

8 hours ago, xanderf said:

I'm not sure the Aggressor really is in a bad spot, per se, so much as the Scum faction otherwise having such OMGWTFBBQ OP AF stuff going on that everyone just flies the 'broken' combos.

The only thing truly weak about them is the same thing that has killed off most Imperial ace/agility lists - the current meta favors HP over green dice. Perhaps a tweak to autothrusters? Let them roll defense against bombs?

This.

Well typed sir, well typed.

I erroneously flew bro-bots with intensity, Man was that fun and almost broken. After the match I noticed the small ship only on Intensity but man in a casual setting everyone should try that out it is dumb.

I have not seen an aggressor on the table for over a year. Maybe longer. Except my 4 new ones.

Aggressor's main problem imo is and always will be the fact its priced in a way to work with a pair, but that forces it to be a stagnant and boring list to build.

I still say it should be cut back by 4-6pts and the title given that cost so we can actually use the bloody thing without a second one around (literally only bossk actually cares about the iggy crew)

But that'd never happen. Still surprised LB's are small ship only, they could have used it.

I think Brobots are fine, I just did pretty well against a very competitive crowd with them. (PS8 Brobots) They have a good feel, and they function well. True, there are things that are in a better spot at the moment, but that doesn't make them bad, and any measures taken to boost them will continue to take the game in a bad direction.

the only boost I could get behind is giving them a 3 turn, which will never happen.

I shelved the Brobots after being tabled by a triple K-wing list. Vicariously buffed, I'm dusting off my favorite list baby!

11 hours ago, PhantomFO said:

I think that any attempt at buffing the IG-2000 will come in the form of a double-cannon upgrade that uses both slots. They're currently one of only two ships that could use such a card, so it'd be a logical place to target an upgrade.

and GUNBOATS!!!!!

I did not fly against them, but Brobots w/ion and chutes (maybe tractor, not sure, could have been double ion) beat a scum Nym list at a small tournament this last Saturday. It seems pretty viable.

I have been enjoying some quality BroBot casual play, just have been struggling convincing myself to take them back competitively; primarily due to half-point rule combined with high damage output.

It does seem that FFG has released a couple upgrades lately that would be interesting on BroBots that got the ‘Small Ship Only’ caveat.

BroBots do suffer noticeably from the ‘half-point’ rule, especially when compared to Nym and Miranda. I would think that something needs to be done about ‘point-fortressing’ for competitive balance.

Based on the majority of opinions expressed I am going to bite the bullet and try playing BroBots again. Any advice for combatting bombs and munitions?

They just need... more stuff .

They're not bad , but they're balanced for an earlier version of the game - their jousting prowess and crazy manouvers were counterbalanced by being PS6, and so you either had to deal with that on an arc-hunting ship, or lose your EPT slot to buy up to the more respectable 8. Nowadays, 8 is middling, and ship-defining compromises have been largely replaced by Perfect Combos everywhere.

This doesn't mean Brobots suck, but man, I haven't seen a card that really excites them since freakin' Crackshot. They'd have loved Intensity, Cloaking Devices, and Juke, for instance, but no such luck.

On 2017-10-24 at 10:02 AM, jesper_h said:

Brobots are fine

In your hands, defenetly!

7 hours ago, AT Leader said:

Based on the majority of opinions expressed I am going to bite the bullet and try playing BroBots again. Any advice for combatting bombs and munitions?

This.

Most all the beautiful ships from the original loved trilogy are suffering the same fate to FFG’s design strategy of bombs, munitions with turrets. Something has to give or the game dies. You cannot let the core mechanic of flying and arcs be pushed out, or the game stops being the greatest tabletop game and melts into just another miniatures card game=meh. If someone can answer your final inquiry, maybe we’ll all find hope.

One thing to do for brobots is add one small line to the title:

Your ship may equip "Small ship only upgrade cards" or "Your ship counts as a small base ship."

While the second would require a **** of a lot of errata, it would fix both the half-points rule, as well as give them access to the upgrades that would make them super viable.

On 10/24/2017 at 9:51 AM, Marinealver said:

I think FFG was a little too worried about something.

oh well

I was hoping this to be viable for Aggressors, but I got my hopes up and didn't realize that it was 'Small ships only".. It would have been perfect for them and Bossk would have love it too!

On 10/24/2017 at 3:58 AM, ABXY said:

This won't be the first time this had been suggested, but as good a place as any to repeat:

The half-point MOV rule should be revised to only apply to ships with a total health greater than 8, irrespective of base-size.

The more I think about what i would do, the more I like this adaptation of the half-point rule. Alas a new FAQ with, as far as I h ave heard , no change to half-points doesn’t bode well for the near future.

On 10/25/2017 at 6:35 AM, clanofwolves said:

This.

Most all the beautiful ships from the original loved trilogy are suffering the same fate to FFG’s design strategy of bombs, munitions with turrets. Something has to give or the game dies. You cannot let the core mechanic of flying and arcs be pushed out, or the game stops being the greatest tabletop game and melts into just another miniatures card game=meh. If someone can answer your final inquiry, maybe we’ll all find hope.

I am far from quitting X-Wing, but I find that I do not enjoy the competitive scene as I once did. I didn’t start playing until TFA Core Set, but find myself missing the simplicity of my early battles where arcs mattered. I will admit that list-building/analysis is not my strong point, but I feel like my dials matter less and less, while upgrades are ruling supreme. I am a considerably competitive person (competed playing Magic at a national level), and I badly miss the thrill of a good tournament, but lately I find it hard to justify the time to play in tournaments when I don’t enjoy the competitive side of the game.

With that said, I’m off to play a mini-epic with my son!

On 10/25/2017 at 4:51 AM, Kreen said:

One thing to do for brobots is add one small line to the title: [...] "Your ship counts as a small base ship."

Yep. Same for the Firespray, and maybe even the U-wing.

30 minutes ago, AT Leader said:

The more I think about what i would do, the more I like this adaptation of the half-point rule. Alas a new FAQ with, as far as I h ave heard, no change to half-points doesn’t bode well for the near future.

Just so it's clear, the half-MoV rule isn't a FAQ rule, it's a tournament rule.

Why does this matter? Well, under the current ridiculousness, all Large ships are (theoretically) being designed and balanced with recognition of a "rule" that doesn't even exist in non-competitive play.

The implications of this are pretty amazing. (And not in a good way. But that's what "stupid-but-easy" fixes get you.)