Hi,

Subject says it all. In the middle of a game. Final Battle. Can anyone direct us to where it says/doesn't say that Word of Vaal can/can/t go through a closed door?

inle_badger said:

I forget, is it a blast or Templete attack? Well in any case if the door is closed you can't go threw it as you do not have LOS and in the FAQ it show that blast and Flame temp. are block by the door/wall. That all I have to go not right now I don't have my books with me.

Word of Vaal doesn't require LOS.

But it can't go through doors, because...

"Closed doors block movement, line of sight, and all attacks (even those that don’t require line of sight) ." (JitD rules p. 13)

Now, if you'd asked whether it can go through walls , then we'd be in a pickle...nowhere does it actually say what walls block.

I play that walls and closed doors block everything, period. But that's not in the rulebook.

how does it interact with command and kirga then?

Turric4n said:

Ahh, that's the part that's up for debate. I think most of the people here on the bords will tell you the intent was that nothing would work through doors or walls. Still, it's not completely outlined in the rules so it can be argued they do.

Antistone said:

I agree. Walls define a border between the game area and the non-game area. Even if the map circles around to enclose a small section of the table with walls, nothing on the other side of the wall exists in game. Effects cannot pass through such space because it's not part of the game. That's just my opinion, of course.

The rulebook does not define such spaces as being out of bounds, but it also doesn't define my refrigerator as being out of bounds. I know Descent and Logic have a torrid history, but at some point you just have to draw a line to keep yourself from going insane.

There do exist adjacent spaces separated by a wall, with no empty table space between them. Also doors. If stuff could go through walls if there were space on the other side, then saying that off-map areas don't exist isn't sufficient to stop weird exploits, and if stuff can't go through walls regardless, then it's totally irrelevant whether off-map areas exist or not.

Antistone said:

I would say that a wall in between two adjacent spaces blocks everything anyway. The only time I know where this occurs is if two rooms are connected directly, so there is a very thin crack of tablespace between the two tiles as well. Not that it really matters, I do agree with you that walls should behave consistently in all situations and in this case that means effects can't go through them.

The whole philosophy of existential table space (or lack thereof) is more a line of reasoning I use to explain why I don't let stuff go through walls. Whether or not it's relevant to anything isn't important to me, as long as it makes my friends stop arguing with me. =)

@Turric4n:

I would say Command and Kirga's ability can both go through closed doors, as they are not attacks (Word of Vaal, by comparison, is an attack.) They cannot go through walls, though, as no effects - attacks or otherwise - can do that (imho.)

so basicaly you say kirga has to trace a line from him to his target space where he blocks spawn similar to a breath around corners?

we always played it like an aura with a fixed 5x5 overlay.

Turric4n said:

Yes. Same for abilities like Command.

I believe most people on the forum play that way, though there's some debate over whether it's "anywhere in a NxN square you can reach without leaving it" (like the breath template) or "anywhere you can reach within N moves" (meaning that going around walls curtails your range). That's actually on Thundercles' list of unanswered questions that he was planning to send in to FFG:

"2.Can abilities with a radius that don't require Line of Sight (Command, Word of Vaal, Spiritwalker, etc.) go through walls and/or doors? When checking the distance for these abilities, must the target figure be reachable by moving a number spaces less than or equal to the radius, or do these abilities work like the Breath example (fly to anywhere within a template, in this case a square of edge length 2xradius + 1 centered on the figure)?"