Obviously FFG had some intense meetings over a year ago and saw high PS Aces and Swarms destroying game-balance. So, they made massive design alterations in: bombs, missiles and damage mitigation.....and it keeps coming. Maybe it’s time to pull-up?
Overcorrection:
correction beyond what is needed or customary, especially when leading to error: The pilot made an overcorrection for headwinds that led to the tragic accident.
This guy: I like his logic.
Yeah, it has struck me for a while that they're fishtailing pretty hard when it comes to their design and balancing process.
things are apparently designed way in advance
so yes, it's probably what's going on (and what's been going on since the TIE Phantom)
clan of wolves' he gets it.
I like this guy.
25 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:
oh, yea. I had that going downhill on a skateboard. Bailed, but fell wrong and broke my foot. Not fun.
Why does it feel like it’s often Imperial units that get the overcorrection?
Soontir, Palpatine, x7, Swarms, Phantom... all struck down, even though it often seems that new releases auto corrected... FAQ was oft ultized too. A couple of which might be worth rolling back
It's not just the FAQ that causes it. It's releases as well. Right now we're (still) in the middle of a massive overcorrection against Soontir.
5 hours ago, Lobokai said:Why does it feel like it’s often Imperial units that get the overcorrection?
Because they were the dominating ships from the dominating faction?
I'm not sure though why exactly they felt the need to correct swarms that much - unless they are really really far behind...
23 minutes ago, GreenDragoon said:Because they were the dominating ships from the dominating faction?
I'm not sure though why exactly they felt the need to correct swarms that much - unless they are really really far behind...
From a fiscal standpoint, it's probably not great for FFG's bottom line if Wave 1 swarms were just as good today as they were when theyw ere released. Why would people buy new stuff if the old stuff was still as good as ever?
But it also feels like the game is suffering a bit from the weight of some initial design issues. In retrospect, using the same red dice roll to determine both whether you hit the target and how hard you hit them was probably a bad idea. We saw that with Guidance Chips, which turned missiles and torpedoes into both some of the most accurate and most damaging attacks in the game. It hinders their ability to create weapons that deal light damage but are highly accurate, or low-accuracy weapons with a strong punch.
8 hours ago, clanofwolves said:Maybe it’s time to pull-up?
I can hold it! I can hold it!!
3 years ago problem: Scum isn't competitive
Solution: Release a one size fits all large ship that maneuvers like a small ship, where even the dumbest trainee gets an EPT slot, and price it so low that Scum can't help but be competitive
Result: Jumpmaster is OP and has generated more than its share of nerfs, and tournaments are often just a battle between who flies a better Scum list
3 years ago problem: Turret upgrades should add variety to the otherwise forward arc shooting part of the game, but turret upgrades aren't competitive
Solution: Release a long range turret upgrade that almost guarantees 1-2 damage per turn
Result: Twin Laser Turret is the defacto turret upgrade standard, drives certain build classes out of the meta, and is generally considered bad for meta variety
3 years ago problem: Ordinance isn't worth taking
Solution: Come out with cheaper & more powerful ordinance, and ways to get more from your ordinance cards
Result: Power creep is real, and primary weapon attacks are becoming less and less common in favor of ordinance. Ordinance also results in fewer ships in builds as stacking upgrades increases your lists' overall damage output better than adding more ships.
2 years ago problem: Bombs aren't that good
Solution: Release a series of ships and upgrades focused on delivering bombs, making bombs less avoidable for opponents, and increasing the overall potential damage output of bombs
Result: Nymn Wing meta
@Joe Censored looks right. Sad but true.
1 hour ago, Darth Meanie said:I can hold it! I can hold it!!
I was gonna like it Darth, but I cannot, for alas, I love it!
3 hours ago, Joe Censored said:3 years ago problem: Scum isn't competitive
Solution: Release a one size fits all large ship that maneuvers like a small ship, where even the dumbest trainee gets an EPT slot, and price it so low that Scum can't help but be competitive
Result: Jumpmaster is OP and has generated more than its share of nerfs, and tournaments are often just a battle between who flies a better Scum list
3 years ago problem: Turret upgrades should add variety to the otherwise forward arc shooting part of the game, but turret upgrades aren't competitive
Solution: Release a long range turret upgrade that almost guarantees 1-2 damage per turn
Result: Twin Laser Turret is the defacto turret upgrade standard, drives certain build classes out of the meta, and is generally considered bad for meta variety3 years ago problem: Ordinance isn't worth taking
Solution: Come out with cheaper & more powerful ordinance, and ways to get more from your ordinance cards
Result: Power creep is real, and primary weapon attacks are becoming less and less common in favor of ordinance. Ordinance also results in fewer ships in builds as stacking upgrades increases your lists' overall damage output better than adding more ships.2 years ago problem: Bombs aren't that good
Solution: Release a series of ships and upgrades focused on delivering bombs, making bombs less avoidable for opponents, and increasing the overall potential damage output of bombs
Result: Nymn Wing meta
A little ban hammer woulda tapped that all into shape waves ago.
Ah, but this is a living game, and no component should be lost. Better to be alive and suffering than dead and buried.
5 hours ago, PhantomFO said:From a fiscal standpoint, it's probably not great for FFG's bottom line if Wave 1 swarms were just as good today as they were when theyw ere released. Why would people buy new stuff if the old stuff was still as good as ever?
If every new player buy 8 ties instead of 1-2, that’s a win for FFG.
If every “I’m Out” player sells 4-8 new players 1-2 ties, That’s a loss for FFG.
If FFG keeps the swarm viable and releases new swarm ideas, every player, old or new now buys more ties, that’s a double win for FFG.
If FFG updates old ties (the only ship from wave 1 with no actual update; xwings got a bad fix and a ton of new pilots) more players buy more ties, again old and new, and, at this point we oldsters have a reason to rebuy since some of our ties are not in thier best condition (not to mention dials) but we don’t need 7-8 anymore; that’s a win for FFG.
Lots of ways to make money that involve a better game for everyone not just a new game for those willing to put up with some of new stuff.
1 hour ago, Rakky Wistol said:If every new player buy 8 ties instead of 1-2, that’s a win for FFG.
If every “I’m Out” player sells 4-8 new players 1-2 ties, That’s a loss for FFG.
If FFG keeps the swarm viable and releases new swarm ideas, every player, old or new now buys more ties, that’s a double win for FFG.
If FFG updates old ties (the only ship from wave 1 with no actual update; xwings got a bad fix and a ton of new pilots) more players buy more ties, again old and new, and, at this point we oldsters have a reason to rebuy since some of our ties are not in thier best condition (not to mention dials) but we don’t need 7-8 anymore; that’s a win for FFG.
Lots of ways to make money that involve a better game for everyone not just a new game for those willing to put up with some of new stuff.
In fairness, there have been upgrades over the last few waves that were clearly targeted at Swarm players, or at least helped them a lot.
- The Gozanti introduced four new ace pilots to correspond with the X-Wing. Wampa remains an absolute star for 14 points, and you don't see an Action EPT come out without people asking how good it'll be on Youngster. Scourge and Chaser didn't make quite as much of an impact.
- Crackshot was probably the last big hurrah for the Swarm, and Crack Blacks would probably still be a pretty strong force if it weren't for regen.
- Swarm Leader was very clearly targeted at Imperial Players, and I've seen it crop up in a few places.
They will circle back. There are variables we just don’t see as far as sales and what not. I trust FFG will get some tweaks so we start to see Imperial Ties and X-wings back on the board. If only because of how iconic both are.
That being said, I think this game has started to go on long enough where we just can’t expect every ship to have a place. Metas will come and go and the best we can hope for is ships to come in and out of cycle.
FFG knows how to make Games. I’ve played a lot of theirs’ and I think their ultimate goal is to create longevity in X-wing. It may mean we will never see the HWK or U-wing again but with new movies and freedom to pull from the EU, they will keep us interested.
And the Jumpmaster is going to continue making new FAQs until it is out of the competitive scene like Palp. Nym I’m sure is also sweating bullets. Never be too good lol.
and finally, The ban hammer is a very scary thing and I actually appreciate FFG trying to fix things without outright removing things.
15 hours ago, PhantomFO said:In fairness, there have been upgrades over the last few waves that were clearly targeted at Swarm players, or at least helped them a lot.
- The Gozanti introduced four new ace pilots to correspond with the X-Wing. Wampa remains an absolute star for 14 points, and you don't see an Action EPT come out without people asking how good it'll be on Youngster. Scourge and Chaser didn't make quite as much of an impact.
- Crackshot was probably the last big hurrah for the Swarm, and Crack Blacks would probably still be a pretty strong force if it weren't for regen.
- Swarm Leader was very clearly targeted at Imperial Players, and I've seen it crop up in a few places.
It wasn’t meant as a complaint, but with the admission that the development team doesn’t care if swarms are hurt more because they aren’t viable, it probably should have been.
It could be a financial decision but it would be an ill thought out one I think (if they are not wanting swarms update to make more money).
23 hours ago, PhantomFO said:We saw that with Guidance Chips, which turned missiles and torpedoes into both some of the most accurate and most damaging attacks in the game. It hinders their ability to create weapons that deal light damage but are highly accurate, or low-accuracy weapons with a strong punch.
High accuracy, low damage output? Sounds an awful lot like a TLT to me!
The low accuracy but high potential weapon could always have text like the unguided rockets does "you may not modify the dice" (or like UGR you may not except for spending your focus token).
The thing is, and I am just going to throw this out there......... Major Championships won by Faction.
Worlds
2012 Empire
2013 Rebel
2014 Rebel
2015 Rebel
2016 Scum
2016 Scum
So Why then are they overcompensating for the Dominance of the Empire?
37 minutes ago, ScummyRebel said:High accuracy, low damage output? Sounds an awful lot like a TLT to me!
2 damage from an attack is not a particularly low amount of damage, is the thing there.
1 hour ago, Sparklelord said:2 damage from an attack is not a particularly low amount of damage, is the thing there.
I think my point was that the model is already there. Simply have the attack happen once instead of twice, and tweak the dice based on how accurate it should be even though it only deals one damage.
Ion cannon is a good model for that example as well.
On 10/23/2017 at 2:18 PM, PhantomFO said:From a fiscal standpoint, it's probably not great for FFG's bottom line if Wave 1 swarms were just as good today as they were when theyw ere released. Why would people buy new stuff if the old stuff was still as good as ever?
But it also feels like the game is suffering a bit from the weight of some initial design issues. In retrospect, using the same red dice roll to determine both whether you hit the target and how hard you hit them was probably a bad idea. We saw that with Guidance Chips, which turned missiles and torpedoes into both some of the most accurate and most damaging attacks in the game. It hinders their ability to create weapons that deal light damage but are highly accurate, or low-accuracy weapons with a strong punch.
But if the game is balanced, then people would buy everything, then fly different competitive lists all they want. if you only ever need to by 3 toilet seats, why buy anything else?
Balance = More sales
Stagnate = less sales