So, Intensity Poe (whether BB8/PT/AT or R2D2/CR/AT) has been somewhat popular since it came out, but it still is not *quite* the dominant Poe seen in the movies. I mean, it's not bad, but it is really not that amazing either. I would say it is Tier 2, not even Tier 1.5.

So, that being said, will Advanced Optics (think of it as Comm Relay for focus tokens) help Poe elevate his position? With Adv. Optics, Poe can always have a focus, and still be able to take VI!

PS 11 Poe with Black One (either with BB8 or R2D2) will literally be impossible to TL. It just won't happen. Poe will finally be able to move last, re-position if needed (or target lock), AND still have a focus. At PS11, vectored thrusters may even be a good take on him.

What are your thoughts? Or, what other uses do you see for Advanced Optics?

I just can't really see it being that much better. Advanced Optics won't really move better than Intensity builds, and a T-70 is still a 3-dice single arc ship.

With BB-8 Intensity, you've got just as many options for Boosts or Target Locks or Focus (so you can Evade on the Barrel Roll), and you'll be more free to use K-turns and T-Rolls with Primed Thrusters. PS is lower, though. With R2-D2 Poe, AdvOpt gives you a more offensive build. You'll more often get to target lock, and you'll have focus when you pull a red move (which you'll be able to pull now), and you'll lose out on a few HP due to Comm Relay evades. Maybe leaning into full offense is the way to go. Get Lone Wolf or Predator and take a Torpedo. That's really getting up into the high 40s for points, though, and you'd only get one shot. And is a more-offense build really what Poe needs? If AdvOpt Poe can survive well enough, doing more damage (even without a torpedo) would be nice.

I might be underestimating the benefit of going up to PS 10 or 11 on Poe specifically. Depending on Imperial Alpha Strikes, I can see this being a meta call. I'm getting super depressed about PS wars.

I don't like giving up Autothrusters, in any case.

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For other pilots, I guess it's kind of like a non-unique Rey which can only store one token (and likely locks you out of your Focus action, if it has the "no more than one" restriction like Comm Relay). On Swarm Leader Omega Ace, it'll be cheaper than a support ship. On Quickdraw, having a focus on a missile turn would be great, but it might be too expensive.

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I think a lot will come down to the point cost.

Poe won worlds. You can do worse in terms of 'tier'.

Tier 0.5

7 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I think a lot will come down to the point cost.

It'll almost certainly be 3.

1 hour ago, thespaceinvader said:

It'll almost certainly be 3.

I think I had that in an earlier version, but deleted it. It was late.

Showing a link to a new card is always much appreciated, since it makes theorycrafting so much easier.

12 minutes ago, ModernPenguin said:

Showing a link to a new card is always much appreciated, since it makes theorycrafting so much easier.

The card is only half-spoiled, and much of this is speculation.

12 minutes ago, theBitterFig said:

The card is only half-spoiled, and much of this is speculation.

Almost certainly correct speculation WRT what it does, but speculation nonetheless. The price is an educated guess, but a good one.

9 hours ago, Reiver said:

Poe won worlds. You can do worse in terms of 'tier'.

Let's be fair, Paul Heaver won worlds in 2015 with Poe when Brobots were the big Scum worry, imperial trip aces were still a useable thing, and Corran was still everywhere. B-Wings, a Rookie Pilot, Han Solo, and swarm leader Vader and Howlrunner also won worlds. I think we can safely say that the game changes and a pilot's relative position in the game can change with it.

PS 11, full mods; no jank

I'd say it has legs to stand on, but I also believe you're never going to do better than miranda

it may be a viable option if you want to fly poe, but only in that specific circumstance

Poe with Advanced optics, will be a decent build. I think what makes Poetensity so good is the evade either stored with comm link or as your Intensity assigned token with BB8, and Advanced Optics Poe will miss that evade token.

VI R2-D2 Advanced Optics Poe will be able to hit a lot harder, getting to take a TL most rounds. I think this will be the most common Advanced Optics Poe.

I'm guessing it will be 3 points.

If you don't want PS11, I think Adv. Optics opens up some other interesting EPT options:

- Predator. You will always have a focus and a reroll. (If you want to fly Poe solo, Lone Wolf would be good, too). Vectored thrusters would be good here, too.

- PTL. Probably take w/vectored thrusters. Poe could Boost/BR, boost TL, etc. (PTL does synergize better w/PA as I've seen it, but it could be good w/Adv Optics). Only problem is the green manuevers aren't the best. Maybe fly w/a ship w/Kanan near.

- Swarm Leader, Daredevil, expert handling (remove your lock and one nearby), for some funky things, etc.

Only problem is if Hot Shot Co-Pilot shows up...

Advanced Optics really needs to be 0-1 points in order to be relevant for ships other than Poe (assuming the wording is the same as Comm Relay). Even Poe doesn't want to pay 2 points for it since Intensity or Pattern Analyzer achieve similar / better effects for that same 2 points. Saving a focus from round to round is great, but being capped at one focus token means it's only slightly improving your action economy. It's functioning a lot like LRS - you gain an action advantage for the first exchange but then the card is irrelevant until you can disengage. At 0-1 points it's worth taking on generics or aces where you are trying to trim points. At 2-3 points there are better cards to choose from.

While it's promising, I'm afraid the point costs won't worth it. If Advanced Optics is the same cost as Comm Relay, then a PS9 Poe + R2D2+AT+AO+title+VI build will be 44 points. And for that you have a half-arc dodger half jouster who either repositions or boosts offense with a TL, but can't do both, and still only AGI2.

Sure it's fun to fly. But I don't see it being competitive.

At 3 points it's well priced. That's the going rate for a bonus action with a cost of some kind, which it is.

Functionally, it's broadly similar to PTL, with a stronger limitation (only works on focus actions, has to be recharged if you spend it) but also a much lower downside (no stress).

It's a solid card that will have places in a number of builds for me. I'm particularly thinking about missile Quickdraw, and indeed, Quickdraw in general. With FCS it means his actions become a lot less constrained and he has a much better chance to BR without losing mods.

BUT it makes him cost more than reasonably fits into most Imperial lists, so swings and roundabouts.

The only reason Comm Relay doesn't already see that much play is that there's only one ship with the Evade action and the Tech slot that's actually been worth flying - OL - and she's almost never seen without it.

I think Adv. Optics will be a more offensive counterpart to the Comm Relay build as it will allow you to take a TL more often than the comm relay build allows. In any case that evade token does come in handy quite a bit, so I don't think this new card will really change him up too much. The VI option is an intriguing option, although I think I'd still want the focus and evade tokens in a pinch, even if only at PS9.

12 hours ago, HanScottFirst said:

I'm guessing it will be 3 points.

- PTL. Probably take w/vectored thrusters. Poe could Boost/BR, boost TL, etc. (PTL does synergize better w/PA as I've seen it, but it could be good w/Adv Optics). Only problem is the green manuevers aren't the best. Maybe fly w/a ship w/Kanan near

Fly him with a bog standard R2 unit and the dial has plenty of green to make the most of PTL.

I think this misses the point of Poetensity: the X-Wings need a third green dice or a replacement like eg an evade token or regen. Even better to have both.

A 2green Poe is not as viable as one with evade+regen.

Just now, GreenDragoon said:

I think this misses the point of Poetensity: the X-Wings need a third green dice or a replacement like eg an evade token or regen. Even better to have both.

A 2green Poe is not as viable as one with evade+regen.

Advanced Optics plus Intensity plus R2D2 is what I believe will work.

BB8 Intensity still wants Primed Thrusters more.

9 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

Advanced Optics plus Intensity plus R2D2 is what I believe will work.

BB8 Intensity still wants Primed Thrusters more.

Yes, but I thought he specifically wanted a VI Poe, which doesn‘t work IMO

2 hours ago, thespaceinvader said:

Advanced Optics plus Intensity plus R2D2 is what I believe will work.

BB8 Intensity still wants Primed Thrusters more.

I'm leery of a AdvO-Intensity build. The point of AdvO is that you never spend the one focus you get at the start of the game. At best, you can alternate turns when you can [1] boost and spend an evade, and use the preserved focus to flip Intensity [2-a] take a focus action to keep with AdvO [2-b] Intensity-boost, but end the turn without a focus token, sending you back to #2. Actually, that's not terrible if you think about it. Getting a free boost and evade every other turn isn't that bad.

It seems hard to use well, though. After a turn when you spend an evade defensively, you'll certainly be weaker. Either you won't be able to boost, or you won't be able to keep your Focus. Playing AdvO-Intensity will require strong knowledge of when you can be weak the next turn. Maybe I've talked myself into it . It isn't like Comm Relay-Intensity has a vastly easier time storing an Evade token.

//

What AdvO-VI does is offense. Poe with a target lock at PS 11 hits early and reasonably hard (and could take a Torpedo... I guess BB-8 Intensity can too, though). He take more damage when shot at, however. But having the hammer * when moving is pretty nice, and PS9 Poe doesn't always move last. I think a part of why Poe was successful in Worlds 2015 was that he moved after Soontir, and cost more points (plus alpha strikes were a lot worse). Being able to move after Nym might be something to aim for, but I don't think it'll have as large an impact as the 38-point Poe did prior to Jumpmasters.

*Curling term. The person who throws the last rock in an end is said to "have the hammer". With a nice throw with a good curl on it, plus some good sweeping, you can knock an opponent's rock off the button and score the end.

4 hours ago, theBitterFig said:

I'm leery of a AdvO-Intensity build. The point of AdvO is that you never spend the one focus you get at the start of the game. At best, you can alternate turns when you can [1] boost and spend an evade, and use the preserved focus to flip Intensity [2-a] take a focus action to keep with AdvO [2-b] Intensity-boost, but end the turn without a focus token, sending you back to #2. Actually, that's not terrible if you think about it. Getting a free boost and evade every other turn isn't that bad.

It seems hard to use well, though. After a turn when you spend an evade defensively, you'll certainly be weaker. Either you won't be able to boost, or you won't be able to keep your Focus. Playing AdvO-Intensity will require strong knowledge of when you can be weak the next turn. Maybe I've talked myself into it . It isn't like Comm Relay-Intensity has a vastly easier time storing an Evade token.

//

What AdvO-VI does is offense. Poe with a target lock at PS 11 hits early and reasonably hard (and could take a Torpedo... I guess BB-8 Intensity can too, though). He take more damage when shot at, however. But having the hammer * when moving is pretty nice, and PS9 Poe doesn't always move last. I think a part of why Poe was successful in Worlds 2015 was that he moved after Soontir, and cost more points (plus alpha strikes were a lot worse). Being able to move after Nym might be something to aim for, but I don't think it'll have as large an impact as the 38-point Poe did prior to Jumpmasters.

*Curling term. The person who throws the last rock in an end is said to "have the hammer". With a nice throw with a good curl on it, plus some good sweeping, you can knock an opponent's rock off the button and score the end.

He's also a point cheaper, and if PS10 is as good as 11 (not right now, but metas change, and Nym isn't guranteed to be endemic forever), he can be two points cheaper again. Yeah, you lose the evade shenanigans, but with his perma-focus in play, Poe gets to pick between Target Locks, Boosts, and even focused K-turns as appropriate. Doing these at PS 10/11 lets him make sure it's the right action, too, and I'm inclined towards thinking this is probably the better deal in most matchups, really.

Yeah, for me Poe is tough because of the lack of target locks, and hence a lack of offense.

Thus, I think moving last and being able to TL will be pretty crucial, like Reiver said, Plus if you PS kill something, it's the best defense.

Also, 7hp (bc of astro) with 2 agi will probably never be that tanky, so I would prefer to increase the offense and count on R2D2 regeneration to live.

44 pts is a pretty healthy point fortress, so maybe PS 11 Poe would fly like Corran: Get R1, TL and Focus'd attack, then zip away and regen for a while.

Who knows for sure, and it will be interesting to see how it ends up playing out!