2 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:It still has a bit of utility with Deathrain and Bomblets, but not certainly not as a missile truck.
If you going to do that, why not just take the far cheaper Deathfire ?
If Deathrain drops a bomblet out the front and then barrel rolls, won't he/she still be hit by the bomblet?
3 minutes ago, Viktus106 said:Considering how good the Gunboat will be, the Punisher truly is dead outside of Epic now.
I don't think there is any title you can come up with that would make it worthwhile. I mean, even if you allowed it reduce all upgrade costs by 1, to a minimum of 1 and allowed a "munitions only expertise" like ability, people STILL wouldn't take it over the gunboat.
Why did they even release that thing. . .
Back on topic though, I think the OS title is going to be the creme of the ship though and I look forward to seeing them deployed in mass.
Once the Trajectory Simulator gets here I think Punishers have a good chance of being better than Gunboats.
I've not worked out a Gunboat build a like more than the a Trajectory Cutlass.
46 minutes ago, Hannes Solo said:Missile - GUNBOAT
Roh- Squad 21P
with: Deadeye (1P), XG-1 (1P), Flechett Cannon (2P), Concussion Missile (4) and GC (0)
- 29P
How usefull would XG-1 Builds be that try to use Ordnance for high damage and light cannons for opportunity shots during slam nad or reload?
I like it. The beauty of the Gunboat is the insane amount of ways you can build one. This might be one ship where there won't be only 1 or 2 optimal builds.
Considering how good the Gunboat will be, the Punisher truly is dead outside of Epic now.
I don't think there is any title you can come up with that would make it worthwhile. I mean, even if you allowed it reduce all upgrade costs by 1, to a minimum of 1 and allowed a "munitions only expertise" like ability, people STILL wouldn't take it over the gunboat.
Why did they even release that thing. . .
Back on topic though, I think the OS title is going to be the creme of the ship though and I look forward to seeing them deployed in mass.
Was the Punisher ever truly alive? Maybe its just the nature of where I play, but I have faced a Punisher only once. What the Gunboat truly kills though is the Tie Bomber. I see really no reason to ever take a Tie Bomber over a Gunboat, unless you want a cheap crew carrier. Still though you usually get more mileage out of a shuttle anyway for the points.
Edited by Jo Jo1 minute ago, Viktus106 said:
If Deathrain drops a bomblet out the front and then barrel rolls, won't he/she still be hit by the bomblet?
He then reveals his dial and moves away.
2 minutes ago, Viktus106 said:If you going to do that, why not just take the far cheaper Deathfire ?
If Deathrain drops a bomblet out the front and then barrel rolls, won't he/she still be hit by the bomblet?
No, because he drops the bomblet, then barrel rolls, then performs his maneuver - for that matter, then boosts.
Paired with the potential for advanced sensors, Deathrain has a lot of pre- and post- movement shennanigans that's almost starviper-esque (albeit attached to a much worse dial)
Deathfire only has a single [bomb] slot and cannot equip bomblet generator.
Edited by Magnus GrendelJust now, Stay On The Leader said:Once the Trajectory Simulator gets here I think Punishers have a good chance of being better than Gunboats.
I've not worked out a Gunboat build a like more than the a Trajectory Cutlass.
Assuming FFG doesn't FAQ it to say that launch just means its going further than the Bombardier and you still have to throw it out your rear guides.
It's entirely possible!
2 minutes ago, Viktus106 said:If you going to do that, why not just take the far cheaper Deathfire ?
If Deathrain drops a bomblet out the front and then barrel rolls, won't he/she still be hit by the bomblet?
No because he gets to move afterwards.
If you think about it, he cold be a really good arc dodger...
Just now, Celestial Lizards said:No because he gets to move afterwards.
If you think about it, he cold be a really good arc dodger...
If it weren;t for him being PS6, yeah.
He can *really* move in the right situations. AS boost r > BR l fwd > 3 bank l is faster than a 5 straight, on a ship without a faster than 3 straight, and he can end up in some crazy places.
But being PS6 and arc locked makes him largely irrelevant 
Just now, Magnus Grendel said:May I ask why?
Ignoring for a moment this "attack twice but only one trigger" thing there's also the rule that to trigger 'on a miss' both attacks would have to miss. Then there's also the reroll doesn't count as rolling (HLC). BUT! Die results do count as dice. Yorr can intercept costs for abilities but that also means the ability wasn't paid for. Players can't take notes to keep their opponents honest. The selective premeasuring only when shooting but not when planning. The rules are straightforward except for when they aren't. They're legalistic and templated except for when they aren't. I can't be the only one who's losing their patience when every new wave creates some new interaction that the rules aren't prepared for and then we have to wait for an FAQ that always has the least intuitive take.
7 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:He then reveals his dial and moves away.
...and boosts if necesary, just to be sure.
8 minutes ago, Viktus106 said:Assuming FFG doesn't FAQ it to say that launch just means its going further than the Bombardier and you still have to throw it out your rear guides.
It's entirely possible!
It's possible that launch means you pick the token up and throw it your opponents ship and if it hits their ship it's destroyed.
But it's 99.9% likely it just means you drop the bomb forwards using the 5 template.
3 minutes ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:Ignoring for a moment this "attack twice but only one trigger" thing there's also the rule that to trigger 'on a miss' both attacks would have to miss. Then there's also the reroll doesn't count as rolling (HLC). BUT! Die results do count as dice. Yorr can intercept costs for abilities but that also means the ability wasn't paid for. Players can't take notes to keep their opponents honest. The selective premeasuring only when shooting but not when planning. The rules are straightforward except for when they aren't. They're legalistic and templated except for when they aren't. I can't be the only one who's losing their patience when every new wave creates some new interaction that the rules aren't prepared for and then we have to wait for an FAQ that always has the least intuitive take.
Note that the wording isn't 'attack that misses' it's 'attack that does not hit'. Attacks missing have not been used as a trigger yet at all. Only one attack needs to miss for the first wording, both do for the second. The first hasn't been used yet.
Most of these objections just seem to be 'i don't like it so it sucks' though.
15 minutes ago, Jo Jo said:Was the Punisher ever truly alive? Maybe its just the nature of where I play, but I have faced a Punisher only once. What the Gunboat truly kills though is the Tie Bomber. I see really no reason to ever take a Tie Bomber over a Gunboat, unless you want a cheap crew carrier. Still though you usually get more mileage out of a shuttle anyway for the points.
.....bombs?
One of my tests for the Gunboat is that it's got to be clearly better than a 27pt Deathfire build. I'm not sure I've seen one that achieves that yet.
Just now, thespaceinvader said:Note that the wording isn't 'attack that misses' it's 'attack that does not hit'. Attacks missing have not been used as a trigger yet at all. Only one attack needs to miss for the first wording, both do for the second. The first hasn't been used yet.
Most of these objections just seem to be 'i don't like it so it sucks' though.
I did perform an attack that did not hit. I also performed an attack that did hit, yes I am aware this means I can trigger both "hits" and "did not hits" as I did both however under current rules I can trigger neither because I guess I just wasted my time? (Well I am playing cluster missiles so...)
YUP! I don't like it and they do suck. At least Magic has the decency to be clear when its rules are going to be inconsistent and bad.
3 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:.....bombs?
One of my tests for the Gunboat is that it's got to be clearly better than a 27pt Deathfire build. I'm not sure I've seen one that achieves that yet.
Until the Imps get a Sabine or even a Cad Bane, you are just better off doing something else. I'm curious, whats the build?
Edited by Jo Jo
1 minute ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:I did perform an attack that did not hit. I also performed an attack that did hit, yes I am aware this means I can trigger both "hits" and "did not hits" as I did both however under current rules I can trigger neither because I guess I just wasted my time? (Well I am playing cluster missiles so...)
YUP! I don't like it and they do suck. At least Magic has the decency to be clear when its rules are going to be inconsistent and bad.
Except you didn't. Because you performed only one attack from the perspective of the 'after attacking' trigger.
You may not like it, but it's not difficult to understand or follow.
In other words, if you don't like it, there are platy of other games you can play. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Just now, thespaceinvader said:Except you didn't. Because you performed only one attack from the perspective of the 'after attacking' trigger.
You may not like it, but it's not difficult to understand or follow.
In other words, if you don't like it, there are platy of other games you can play. Don't let the door hit you on the way out.
Thanks for reminding me about another thing: The words on the cards are actually meaningless. The card says to perform the attack twice, but it doesn't actually mean that, just like Gunner says to immediately attack again, but that also has no actual meaning because why should an emphasis on timing actually matter?
Just now, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:Thanks for reminding me about another thing: The words on the cards are actually meaningless. The card says to perform the attack twice, but it doesn't actually mean that, just like Gunner says to immediately attack again, but that also has no actual meaning because why should an emphasis on timing actually matter?
Everything is meaningless, the world is floating in an endless void and we're all going to die.
Or, you know, you could just read and accept the rules.
They're really not hard.
(I don't disagree they're badly written, by the by. I just disagree that it's worth constantly whinging about instead of playing the game I enjoy)
11 minutes ago, Stay On The Leader said:It's possible that launch means you pick the token up and throw it your opponents ship and if it hits their ship it's destroyed.
But it's 99.9% likely it just means you drop the bomb forwards using the 5 template.
I know someone that almost did that with a challenge coin.
Was making a gesture at how surprisingly weighted they were and the next thing we knew, it was bouncing off the radiator on the other side of the shop after an accidental launch. Such a loud noise as well. Radiator was dented but the coin was fine.
Moral of the story, launching stuff is a very hit or miss business.
7 minutes ago, Jo Jo said:
Until the Imps get a Sabine or even a Cad Bane, you are just better off doing something else. I'm curious, whats the build?
Variations on this build have been around all year, going right back to winning a couple of Regionals back when Commonwealth Defenders were still a thing (with Homing Missile). You can go down to 26 for Cruise Missiles, but Harpoon is probably the right one.
UGR/LWF is the other variant. Adds a bit of toughness and flexibility at the cost of a lot of potential damage.
Edited by thespaceinvader29 minutes ago, Viktus106 said:If you going to do that, why not just take the far cheaper Deathfire ?
If Deathrain drops a bomblet out the front and then barrel rolls, won't he/she still be hit by the bomblet?
Deathrain has a lot of things he can do to get away from the bomb.
Or he can just take advantage of his fat hp and just tank it to force a squishy target to eat the bomb too.
Remember his ability to barrelroll is looking for a dropped bomb period. He's shifted to the left or right after he drops the bomb, which lets even a 2 turn away from the bomb get away from it just fine.
He can also boost if he couldnt barrelroll after he does his normal move. Long as he isnt sitting on it a boost will clear it.
Barrelroll forward into a 4k clears it by a hair (done this many times, adv sensors for focus and flip around with Unguided ready and it catches people off guard so often)
1 minute ago, thespaceinvader said:Everything is meaningless, the world is floating in an endless void and we're all going to die.
Or, you know, you could just read and accept the rules.
They're really not hard.
(I don't disagree they're badly written, by the by. I just disagree that it's worth constantly whinging about instead of playing the game I enjoy)
I shouldn't have to be rules expert cobbling together passages from supplemental documents about similarly worded cards in the hope that this time I'm in the same head space as whomever wrote the ma nishtana of today's FAQ update. Why IS this line of text different from all others?
The rules are bad, but if you'll only accept they're 'badly written' then fine. Maybe one day you'll expect better.
I try to keep my expectations realistic.
2 minutes ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:
The rules are bad, but if you'll only accept they're 'badly written' then fine. Maybe one day you'll expect better.
While that's true it's basically a condition of buying and playing an FFG game. Complaining about it will only wear out the end of your typing fingers.