His ability doesn't have the same timing as R4 Agromech tho. It was FCS that changed him up.

And I suspect it was him more than anyone who made that change necessary. THe ability to PTL boost barrel roll between TLT shots was just a giant rules mess.

2 hours ago, Viktus106 said:

Even with the GLORIOUS-BOAT finally hitting the scene, it still has to tackle the Biggs/Low combo and put out at least six damage (spread out across three separate attacks) to kill Biggs before you lose a ship, which is likely.

How do people foresee handling such a list?

Mix and match Harpoon Missiles and Saturation Salvo for Splash Damage, The Musical, I guess.

Hit? Boom. No hit? Still (smaller) boom (remember a ship is still at range 1 of itself).

4 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

His ability doesn't have the same timing as R4 Agromech tho. It was FCS that changed him up.

And I suspect it was him more than anyone who made that change necessary. THe ability to PTL boost barrel roll between TLT shots was just a giant rules mess.

That's definitely the only ability he lost that might be relevant.

Just now, Magnus Grendel said:

Mix and match Harpoon Missiles and Saturation Salvo for Splash Damage, The Musical, I guess.

Hit? Boom. No hit? Still (smaller) boom (remember a ship is still at range 1 of itself).

Just plain old Harpoon Missiles would be my guess.

But the Gunboat just isn't priced on a part with OPQ or Fairship.

Saturation Salvo is so bad.

1 minute ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Saturation Salvo is so bad.

Splash damage is nice against larger squads (but they're rare) and does give you one last bite at the cherry with a missile shot even against a solo target and it's not expensive - it's mostly the fact that it's using your elite slot to do so., which - when you're paying for a ship that has one, you tend to really need for something else.

It's also the fact that it has the cost requirement AND it's dice based AND its (currently) only usable with ONE non-discardable card, and then only against agi 1 or lower ships.

It's like the perfect storm of bad.

C.f. Crack Shot in the same slot...

Just now, Magnus Grendel said:

Splash damage is nice against larger squads (but they're rare) and does give you one last bite at the cherry with a missile shot even against a solo target and it's not expensive - it's mostly the fact that it's using your elite slot to do so., which - when you're paying for a ship that has one, you tend to really need for something else.

But it's also the difference between Guidance Chips or Munitions Failsafe. Being rewarded for something going to wrong is very rarely competitive, because you want to make sure things don't go wrong and then capitalise on them going right.

And it's worth noting that Gunner is a different case entirely - because Gunner has a chance to strip tokens and once per round things in the course of missing, apply Declare target things twice, etc.

There's a reason why I think the only reasonable use of Salvo is Double Edge, and even then it's questionable.

23 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Mix and match Harpoon Missiles and Saturation Salvo for Splash Damage, The Musical, I guess.

Now that's a Broadway show I could get behind...

...well, you wouldn't want to get in front of it.

Salvo is also just a bad card for existing because it adds certainty. If it was powerful, it would be OP and limit the design space. The fact it has so many restrictions (only works on munitions, only works on a miss, only works if cost > agility) makes it very hard to abuse with existing cards, but it's still something they have to watch out for when desigining cards in the future.

So basically it's a card that has to be pretty rubbish or else it hurts the game.

35 minutes ago, thespaceinvader said:

It's also the fact that it has the cost requirement AND it's dice based AND its (currently) only usable with ONE non-discardable card, and then only against agi 1 or lower ships.

It's like the perfect storm of bad.

C.f. Crack Shot in the same slot...

Indeed. If it worked on equal-to-or-lower, then there might be an argument for a squad of Gamma Vets with massed unguided rockets, lightweight frame and saturation salvo, but as it is whilst agility 1 is not uncommon I think I'd rather have the 5th bomber, all told.

1 hour ago, Stay On The Leader said:

Saturation Salvo is so bad.

Eh... It has it's uses. A Nu Pilot with UG Rockets, LRS, OS-1 and SS is decent. So is Double Edge-UGR-TLT-SS.

Lots of acronyms there.

1 minute ago, Celestial Lizards said:

Eh... It has it's uses. A Nu Pilot with UG Rockets, LRS, OS-1 and SS is decent.

How you fitting the EPT on there, then? And also, no, it's not decent.

Just now, Stay On The Leader said:

How you fitting the EPT on there, then? And also, no, it's not decent.

Pff, sorry. *slaps face* Rho Pilot, then.

I tried it as a cheap attack ship last night and it did pretty well. Not as well as double GUNBOAT aces, but still good paired with an Advanced and Defender.

4 minutes ago, Celestial Lizards said:

Eh... It has it's uses. A Nu Pilot with UG Rockets, LRS, OS-1 and SS is decent. So is Double Edge-UGR-TLT-SS.

Lots of acronyms there.

Double Edge with Saturation Salvo, [Turret], Unguided Rockets and Lightweight Frame is interesting - even with a Twin Laser Turret he's 'only' 30 points - but the fact Saturation Salvo can only hit agility 1 or agility 0 targets strikes me as a problem when you can pack Deadeye and Synced Turret for a couple of points less.

2 minutes ago, Magnus Grendel said:

Double Edge with Saturation Salvo, [Turret], Unguided Rockets and Lightweight Frame is interesting - even with a Twin Laser Turret he's 'only' 30 points - but the fact Saturation Salvo can only hit agility 1 or agility 0 targets strikes me as a problem when you can pack Deadeye and Synced Turret for a couple of points less.

It's a Nym killer.

Missile - GUNBOAT

Roh- Squad 21P
with: Deadeye (1P), XG-1 (1P), Flechett Cannon (2P), Concussion Missile (4) and GC (0)

- 29P

How usefull would XG-1 Builds be that try to use Ordnance for high damage and light cannons for opportunity shots during slam nad or reload?

20 minutes ago, Celestial Lizards said:

It's a Nym killer.

Eh? If you're shooting at Nym you're not going to miss. And you're in a world where Nym is flying formation with his teammate? And a 50% chance of 1 damage is a Nym killer... when you fire it 20 times.

17 hours ago, HolySorcerer said:

And you don't check for "after performing an attack" until step 7. This is why Clusters don't work with Redline anymore.

...and when I check for it the event has happened twice.
As for redline if you read the FAQ it doesn't mention how many times the trigger resolves it only says when it (Fire control system) resolves, which is in step 8. As for Redline, getting a pair of target locks after the attack is irrelevant because Redline already can get a pair of target locks through the pilot's natural ability.

22 minutes ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

As for Redline, getting a pair of target locks after the attack is irrelevant because Redline already can get a pair of target locks through the pilot's natural ability.

Not really, in the case of cluster missiles Redline spends one lock to fire and only has one more for the two attacks.

Just now, darthlurker said:

Not really, in the case of cluster missiles Redline spends one lock to fire and only has one more for the two attacks.

And....?

24 minutes ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

and when I check for it the event has happened twice.

Which doesn't matter, because you only ever get to trigger something once per opportunity. Your opportunity is the 'after you perform an attack' step which only occurs once. Compare with Tactician only providing a single stress.

Quote

If a ship equipped with Tactician performs a secondary weapon attack that says “perform this attack twice,” Tactician triggers only once and only after the second attack

Also, note that the precedent with cluster missiles and if-you-miss stuff

Quote

If a ship is equipped with Cluster Missiles and Munitions Failsafe, both attacks must miss for Munitions Failsafe to activate

What a *** ruleset.

Considering how good the Gunboat will be, the Punisher truly is dead outside of Epic now.

I don't think there is any title you can come up with that would make it worthwhile. I mean, even if you allowed it reduce all upgrade costs by 1, to a minimum of 1 and allowed a "munitions only expertise" like ability, people STILL wouldn't take it over the gunboat.

Why did they even release that thing. . .

Back on topic though, I think the OS title is going to be the creme of the ship though and I look forward to seeing them deployed in mass.

3 minutes ago, FourDogsInaHorseSuit said:

What a *** ruleset.

May I ask why?

1 minute ago, Viktus106 said:

Considering how good the Gunboat will be, the Punisher truly is dead outside of Epic now.

I don't think there is any title you can come up with that would make it worthwhile. I mean, even if you allowed it reduce all upgrade costs by 1, to a minimum of 1 and allowed a "munitions only expertise" like ability, people STILL wouldn't take it over the gunboat.

Why did they even release that thing. . .

It still has a bit of utility with Deathrain and Bomblets, but not certainly not as a missile truck; it's now sandwiched between the EPT-capable, faster, tougher, more manouvrable, reload-capable gunboat and the much cheaper but still LRS capable bomber.